Donnie B.
Banned
Well-known member
These X vs Y discussions (my participation included) always end up reminding me of Alex Lifeson at the R&R HOF.
cardinal
Well-known member
The AFXIII im using is definitely not perfect, but I've not played an actual amp that I thought was perfect either. There's always something, but you learn to let it go and just play.
You need the same mindset with a modeler.
The reason why I went this route is because I love my JMP, but every once in a while, I want something different. And so I'm using the AFXIII for that something different. Recto or Mark or whatever. And it's fun and has lots of FXs. But the JMP isn't going anywhere and will be there when I want it too.
You need the same mindset with a modeler.
The reason why I went this route is because I love my JMP, but every once in a while, I want something different. And so I'm using the AFXIII for that something different. Recto or Mark or whatever. And it's fun and has lots of FXs. But the JMP isn't going anywhere and will be there when I want it too.
Meeotch
Well-known member
I think there is something to be said about user engagement and experience in this discussion. I know vinyl has already been brought up, but it is a good example of people wanting a certain experience in addition to the way it sounds (ie having a tangible record sleeve/album cover, the process of loading up the turntable, etc). Hell even CD's were fun to stick in the slot, or load and clamp shut. And I dearly miss making people mixes.
With a tube amp there is something amazing about flicking the power and watching the tubes glow. Letting it heat up and the subtle smell of glass and tolex. And when you flip the standby switch it's just a bath of immediate analog warmth and goodness.
I recently bought and sold a Boss EQ-200. It was the latest and greatest digital EQ pedal that ticked all the right boxes, but just so STERILE. After some ABing I sold it and kept the MXR 10-band for it's warmth. 100% positive I could differentiate in a blind test. So if modelers are already there, then great. I'll own both. But you'll have to pry my Boogies and 2150 from my cold dead body.
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braintheory
Well-known member
I’ve not commented on this debate of modeleler vs real amp since I don’t think it’s that useful, but I’ll just say that my preference for tube amps has nothing to do whatsoever with any of that stuff except for simply how they sound. Just like how my opinions on guitars are about they sound, not how they look, playability, fit or finish, knob placement lol, etc. They’re still a musical instrument first and foremost. I’d have no reservation getting a modeling amp if I felt it sounded as good or better
I think there is something to be said about user engagement and experience in this discussion. I know vinyl has already been brought up, but it is a good example of people wanting a certain experience in addition to the way it sounds (ie having a tangible record sleeve/album cover, the process of loading up the turntable, etc). Hell even CD's were fun to stick in the slot, or load and clamp shut. And I dearly miss making people mixes.
With a tube amp there is something amazing about flicking the power and watching the tubes glow. Letting it heat up and the subtle smell of glass and tolex. And when you flip the standby switch it's just a bath of immediate analog warmth and goodness.
I recently bought and sold a Boss EQ-200. It was the latest and greatest digital EQ pedal that ticked all the right boxes, but just so STERILE. After some ABing I sold it and kept the MXR 10-band for it's warmth. 100% positive I could differentiate in a blind test. So if modelers are already there, then great. I'll own both. But you'll have to pry my Boogies and 2150 from my cold dead body.
psychodave
Well-known member
I don’t know if a depth pot could be added to an HH V800. I’d love to have one on it though
.My friend owned the Coliseum power amp and it was great. In the long run he preferred the Strategy 400. That the main reason I never got a Coli power amp. It’s all splitting hairs though. I chatted with Cameron a few years ago and he mentioned to add that “Q” pot along with the depth pot for even greater versatility. Keep in mind my depth pots on the S400 are push pull and pulling adds in more sub lows. I rarely pull the pots because it’s just too much... which is how the Q pot came into the discussion.
To keep it on topic, I’m really considering getting an AxeFx and running it with the S400. I’d have to think it would be really good sounding. Not trying to compare it to an all tube amp, but, again, I’m willing to bet it’s great.
Meeotch
Well-known member
Cool, wasn't intending to suck you in to the debate. I don't really think it's much a debate either...really just arguing about people's preferences and whether they are valid (although that seems to go on quite a bit here). Like I said I'll probably own a high end modeler eventually, but there's nothing my tube rigs can't do right now that has made me want to explore modelers.
And to reiterate what many have said, my opinions are strictly in regards to in room tones and feel. Recording and/or live use is a different story.
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braintheory
Well-known member
I’ve toyed with getting a good modeler or rack unit just for there fx like the reverb, harmonizers, etc. They can sound great and way better than any of those pedals I’ve tried for the same purpose
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braintheory
Well-known member
If it can be done please let me know lol. It would be a monster. I’m gonna ask my techI don’t know if a depth pot could be added to an HH V800. I’d love to have one on it though
Also, just for clarity, I was talking about using just the poweramp of my mark iii++ coliseum for slaving my amps, not the actual stand alone coliseum power amp units. It sounds like my coli probably can’t get those sublows you’re talking about, but probably the Blueface can
Bishop5150
Well-known member
It's there for me. I made the switch back in 2016 and never looked back. Never thought it would happen but here I am.
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harddriver
Well-known member
You always have gotten a killer live sound from your AXEFXII and III.
Do you feel any difference in response and liveliness versus your EVH5150 amp setup at all? My main point is a discerning player probably could tell a difference. Now that difference may or may not be an issue with the player.
Donnie B.
Banned
Well-known member
You missed the point. Whether you test one subject or one hundred, if each suffers any form of the issues
mentioned in the video then the net results are the same.
That's why controlled A-B audio tests are simply one point of reference in the discussion. Not the final word.
The subject matter is audio and how personal moods and emotions can bias a controlled audio listening test.
It's simple really.
You've come to a conclusion. Some here disagree. We're not going to change each other's minds.
BatmansRigTalk
Active member
You don't understand your own video. He said people can have off days as well as on days. If you use larger sample sizes then the off day confounding variable becomes statistically insignificant. The net result is what we know today to be true. Nobody has Golden ears when it comes to telling the difference because they end up getting it wrong.
If we followed your logic then we could end up with valves been worse than digital because of off days. It is not just a one way road to dismiss profilers. You can equally dismiss valves with that same logic.
I never said finding someone with Golden ears is the final world.
All I am pointing out is that they don't seem to be around to show us their skills in demonstrations. Why do you think that is? Could it be because profilers can in fact do what you claim they can't?
I am saying both can do the same. They are co-equal.
Donnie B.
Banned
Well-known member
Cool. Your opinions have been noted.
LCW
Active member
And in 2020 vinyl outsold CDs... Tube amps will never go away.
Metalhex
Well-known member
All the math and computations and digits in the world can never replicate the thump in the chest I get from a tube amp pushing air which a modeller or profiler cannot
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Donnie B.
Banned
Well-known member
AITR debate starts in 5... 4... 3... 
Monkey Man
Super Moderator
K
kunos
Member
they are already there.. but music is a world where selling snake oil is still a totally viable way to raise above the crowd.
So you will ALWAYS hear (and read) about people claiming their tube amps have quantum farting unicorns making love inside of them and you should totally go and see them play live with their guitars with the period correct glue keeping it together.
So you will ALWAYS hear (and read) about people claiming their tube amps have quantum farting unicorns making love inside of them and you should totally go and see them play live with their guitars with the period correct glue keeping it together.
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Luca79
Active member
IMO is because is useless to buy digital music when you can download, snag on the net, listen on Spotify/Youtube... Without sales numbers is impossible to say, but i bet LP have just a minor impact, and are bought only by audiophile and enthusiasts.
Markedman
Well-known member
27.5 million LP's sold in 2020. Didn't that equate to about to the top 3 albums in 1980?