Do you think that God actually exists?

[deizel1]

HI guys

Cool forum. Checking out amp stuff but I never thought my first post would be about God... but I think I can help people on the fence because I wrote something to a few people a while back..so I'll post it up

First, EVH rules

I believe there is a misconception by some Christians and non Christians on how people believe.

Christians dont "believe" because someone showed us one last peice of evidence that finally convinced us this was all true. This isnt Columbo

If we treat belief as the collecting of data, piecing together clues, and then finally obtaining just enough to put us over the hump, we leave ourselves open to that one piece of new evidence that debunks our theory.

Of all the people who I've talked to that dont believe in God, not one has ever answered yes to this question.....

Have ever thought to ask God Himself what the truth is?

They search for clues, have arguments with themselves, debating back and forth pros and cons, but never ask God. But why? Well usually it because they think they're smarter than the supposed God of this world. In other words, I can think of a better plan than this--so there cant be a God to ask anyway.

Dont you think that would block communication with God? Think about it...I dont understand the plan...so there's no God. Isnt one of the definitions of God that he is infinitely smarter than us? Does a dog ever realize why we sent him outside to poop? You see suffering and think..I've got better plan. Doesnt a dog think he has a better plan than us too? Havnt we seen Man's grand plan enough to know we dont have clue?

It takes humility to admit we might not be as wise as we think we are. It take a child like attitude to say, God...help me understand. If you are real, help my mind understand it. If you drop your shields He will put it as a fact in your head. Its not about clues or data. Yes, there is testimony. People have died for it instead of suicide bombed for it. And yes, there are more copies of the Bible on earth than any other book. But ask God himself. Your not gonna become a wussy overnight.

The vehicle God choose was not to put a burdon on you---but HIM. We cant be perfect because have to freewill to think anything we want..(so its possible to choose.) We deserve to be punished for our behavoir but God stepped in and took that punishment for us. All he asks is you accept that. His plan is like nothing man would think up. Man would make it hard..God made is as easy as it could be. Accept his offer and live forever. I say, where do I sign up? Man's idea would be to go on CNN. But God reveals the true state of a human heart by requiring child-like faith. Remember, they killed Christ when they saw him and all the great things he did. So seeing makes no difference because God knows who you are reagrdless of what you see.

Anyhow, hope I didnt bore anyone

 

[hairychris444]

If hairychris didn't have a Blackmachine I think I'd have to start flaming him

Haha, well, I don't know whether to be flattered or embarrased. I'll try a bit of both...

I've never read so many words that amount to nothing. Your points aren't any more valid than they were with your blanket statement of a first post in this thread.

In what way? OK, I'll admit that I babble far too much sometimes, but please deny the validity of the following:

- Religions that have a supernatural element or deity are similar, because they have a supernatural element or deity.
- Certain parts of the Bible are inherently unprovable, unless you first accept 'God' as the truth.... which makes any statement therein self-fulfilling by it's own existence.
- Religious faith and empirical knowledge cannot exist for the same item/concept in the same way at the same time.
- Like it or not, the Catholic church 1) is the largest Christian 'sect' and 2) has been fighting progress & scientists since before the Reformation so they have a track record of a) argument and b) not giving up unless they are absolutely proved wrong, and even then it takes them centuries to admit it. By this I don't mean to say that they're right & the proddies are wrong (or vice versa) but they are an interesting case.
- Giving 'God' as a cause includes an implicit discouragement to research further - stepping on 'God's toes, if you will. What's wrong with asking fundamental questions of existence outside of a theological framework?
- Forget evolution, it's a side show to the god exists/doesn't exist question and is actually more of a scientific method vs Biblical literalist fight which isn't quite the same. (FWIW you can claim that evolution is false and there's no supernatural deity - hyperintelligent aliens invented DNA, for example -or that evolution exists and is a tool of God.)
- 'Science' with it's demonstration through repeatable results has a different 'truth' criteria to supernatural claims.
- Empirical knowledge requires that you update or throw out theories if evidence (that does not contradict other evidence) is found that contradicts the theory.
- Knowing that God exists and believeing that God exists are 2 fundamentally different areas - (a)gnostis and (a)theism.

Maybe that's a bit better than all the nonsense I've tended to spout.

My overall point, though, is that very few of us knows whether or not a deity exists. Some translate this into a belief structure, I don't. Even if there is a God, how do you 'know' that you're worshipping it in the right way? The Bible may be wrong and the Koran may be right... Or the 'true' book is yet to be written, or has already been lost.

From an independent viewpoint I really can't be bothered with believing in something that no-one else, including co-religionist of every sort, can agree on. Atheism is a great default option.

I don't really have time to get into it, I'm on my lunch break. I may have time to debate Sunday See you then if it's still heated in here

Don't ask me, I wasn't here on Sunday!

 

[hairychris444]

if god exists, then he plays mesa.

/end

I'd have thought that he'd have had more taste....

 

[King Crimson]

Evolution is a fact - like it or not. How did dolphins and whales evolve as earthly land mammals to the oceans? That should be obvious to anyone with at the very least a room temperature IQ!

 

[MOAAH]

Who opened the door and let HCAF in?

Blame it on the mods! They always do stuff, unless they don't, LOL.
MOAAH.

 

[King Crimson]

Who opened the door and let HCAF in?

Blame it on the mods! They always do stuff, unless they don't, LOL.
MOAAH.

Yes- but if they don't do stuff, then no stuff is done. On the other hand if they do stuff, then sometimes stuff is done - I mean like stuff and such, or puff and stuff.

 

[MOAAH]

Who opened the door and let HCAF in?

Blame it on the mods! They always do stuff, unless they don't, LOL.
MOAAH.

Yes- but if they don't do stuff, then no stuff is done. On the other hand if they do stuff, then sometimes stuff is done - I mean like stuff and such, or puff and stuff.

I know what ya mean:

I miss that show, NOT

 

[gdwill2u]

I'm just glad that when the stars did collide that they gave me an incredibly HUGE penis, yet a tiny brain.

Hey I relate, all except the HUGE penis part

 

[gdwill2u]

I am impressed with the civility of this thread. This is usually a very intense and emotional topic for most folks. I am a Christian but I have total respect for all people whether they believe in Jesus or Buddha, Mohammad or no one at all.

This respect i am talking about was hard earned and came from may a discussion (some of the brutal) on threads similar to this one. The process of mutual understanding can in itself raise the spirituality of all of us, if that discussion is civil and respectful of the opinions and feelings of others.

Good job riggers and you don't even have to segregate this thread into one big dumping ground thread like some others have.

Now just don't you change

 

[Phishphood]

I am impressed with the civility of this thread.

Well of course, this isn't hcaf

 

[King Crimson]

I am a Christian but I have total respect for all people whether they believe in Jesus or Buddha, Mohammad or no one at all.

I believe in jello. It will last forever - you can refrigerate it or leave it on the kitchen table and it will always taste the same. It's eternal…

 

[blargh]

The Christian God, as described in the Bible?
I don't believe he does. It's too much like fiction thought up by humans, plot holes and all.
Some other higher power? No idea what the hell would I know about the universe?