Ecstasy Preamp Section Retube

[se7en]

Any recommendations? I was thinking of going Ruby HG+ in V1-V3. I know the Phase Inverter tube gets the most abuse, so will definitely be changing that one...What do you guys think?

V1: 1st stage for all three channels
V2: 2nd stage for 2nd and 3rd channel, 3rd stage for 3rd channel
V3: 3rd stage for 2nd and 4th stage for 3rd channel

V4: Loop, in circuit only if effects loop is on

V5: Phase Inverter

V6: 2nd and 3rd stage for 1st channel

 

[steve_k]

How is it tubed now Zack and what, if anything, would you like to change about the character of the amp?

 

[se7en]

How is it tubed now Zack and what, if anything, would you like to change about the character of the amp?

Chinese in all positions, except I had two EI's in the first two slots. V1 just went microphonic on me about a month ago. I'm going for a nice open, crunch...something with good upper midrange attack/kerrang and definition. I'd like to avoid Tung Sol in the gain stages or something too dark in there (ie JJ).

 

[Setneck]

In my XTC (hard rock sounds) I currently have: V1 - LPS, V2 - EHX, V3 - EHX, V4 - EHX, V5 - LPS, V6 - LPS. That line-up gave me the most aggressive and upper-oriented sound.

RFT in V2 & V3 are also cool, but sound more rough. EHX are more creamy, but You got to watch Your gain knob while using these.

I can strongly recommend LPS tubes as input V1 tube and PI. It gives very clean, direct and in-front sound.

Regards, Andy

 

[steve_k]

How is it tubed now Zack and what, if anything, would you like to change about the character of the amp?

Chinese in all positions, except I had two EI's in the first two slots. V1 just went microphonic on me about a month ago. I'm going for a nice open, crunch...something with good upper midrange attack/kerrang and definition. I'd like to avoid Tung Sol in the gain stages or something too dark in there (ie JJ).

Do you have any NOS tubes? A good Mullard or RFT? A nice Mullard on V1 cures a lot of amps' woes. The RFT is just kick ass and I run it in V1 of every Marshall mod pretty that I own. It allows an amp to breathe and open up. EI's do some of the same, but even the NOS had some micro-phonic issues. The new (shiny plates) damn sure do. I just threw a bunch of them away. Not a huge fan of Tung Sol in anything dirty. Clean channels they are OK and fatten things up a bit.

Having said all that, As Andy says here, an LPS in V1 and in the PI keep the amp fattened up and controlled. Sometimes they can blanket an amp a little bit though. If you find it does, put a Chinese in the PI to open it back up.

You can always try an LPS in V1, a JJ in V2 and then an Chinese in V3. V4, a Chinese or JJ and V6, I would probably start with a JJ, depending on how you like to run the green channel.

Steve

 

[Ventura]

Changing the pres in an XTC changes the amp dramatically - some change can be desirable - some not so much. If you follow the lead of Jorg or Charlie at Boggy HQ, they'll recommend HG Chinese/Shuguang in every position. I've screwed around with other glass and inevitably went back to HG 12AX7 Chinese in every socket. The changes were quite noticeable and personally, I just liked the amp staying stock sounding.

YMMV.

Mo

 

[steve_k]

Changing the pres in an XTC changes the amp dramatically - some change can be desirable - some not so much. If you follow the lead of Jorg or Charlie at Boggy HQ, they'll recommend HG Chinese/Shuguang in every position. I've screwed around with other glass and inevitably went back to HG 12AX7 Chinese in every socket. The changes were quite noticeable and personally, I just liked the amp staying stock sounding.

YMMV.

Mo

There's a reason.....at $4.95 per tube in bulk for unlabeled Chinese 12AX7C's, it's a win/win for amp builders. Reliable, cheaply priced and can handle the multiple triode duties required out of the Bogner tube layout. And, they know you are going to change tubes anyway, so way would the builder sink and extra $100 in preamp tube cocktails. Like Mesa, they stack gain stages on top of each other, as opposed to isolated channel gain stages - this is why for the most part, tubes will make little difference. However, V1 can have some impact in the character of the amp. I keep me several nice Brimar Mullards on hand to at least try, if needed. At the end of the day though, it's an individual thing. Zack already said he didn't want to use Chinese. So, I was throwing some alternatives down from I had done with my XTC's in the past, and future.

 

[Setneck]

Having said all that, As Andy says here, an LPS in V1 and in the PI keep the amp fattened up and controlled. Sometimes they can blanket an amp a little bit though. If you find it does, put a Chinese in the PI to open it back up.

Funny, but I felt exactly opposite as for the "blanket effect" . But tastes, tastes . I have tried nearly all tubes possible, NOS and CP. Ended up with line-up described above, as I wanted my amp to be the most aggressive. But even during my NOS days I have always kept LPS as a PI. I used TFK smooth plates here before but I felt that LPS makes the tone even more in-front.

Chinese is cool sounding tube, but lots of bottom in it. I use them all through my Marshall 6100 (except V2 where I have a Tungsram). But as stock XTC is already voiced in lower tones department (mine is modded quite a bit) chinese may bring the tone down in a mix. Of course it depends what music you play and what is the line-up of your band. My amp when stock was hidden in the mix (sounding great alone though). So before I modded it I was searching for tubes which may bring the tone up. Great part of it was LPS in V1 and PI.

There's a reason.....at $4.95 per tube in bulk for unlabeled Chinese 12AX7C's, it's a win/win for amp builders. Reliable, cheaply priced and can handle the multiple triode duties required out of the Bogner tube layout. And, they know you are going to change tubes anyway, so way would the builder sink and extra $100 in preamp tube cocktails.

Nuff said... The same is with JJ's. Many amp bulders will say that they sound great (I feel opposite ), but they don't say that they think so because they are cheap. Indeed they sound decent but - as You said - there's a poor chance any amp buyer will keep stock tube line-up. I changed mine 5 minutes after I took my amp out of the box

As for the NOS tubes in XTC, I have great experiences with RFT, Philips and Tungsram in gain stages and also with Telefunken smooth plates as a PI. These are worth to try IMO.

Regards, Andy

 

[steve_k]

Having said all that, As Andy says here, an LPS in V1 and in the PI keep the amp fattened up and controlled. Sometimes they can blanket an amp a little bit though. If you find it does, put a Chinese in the PI to open it back up.

Funny, but I felt exactly opposite as for the "blanket effect" . But tastes, tastes . I have tried nearly all tubes possible, NOS and CP. Ended up with line-up described above, as I wanted my amp to be the most aggressive. But even during my NOS days I have always kept LPS as a PI. I used TFK smooth plates here before but I felt that LPS makes the tone even more in-front.

Chinese is cool sounding tube, but lots of bottom in it. I use them all through my Marshall 6100 (except V2 where I have a Tungsram). But as stock XTC is already voiced in lower tones department (mine is modded quite a bit) chinese may bring the tone down in a mix. Of course it depends what music you play and what is the line-up of your band. My amp when stock was hidden in the mix (sounding great alone though). So before I modded it I was searching for tubes which may bring the tone up. Great part of it was LPS in V1 and PI.

There's a reason.....at $4.95 per tube in bulk for unlabeled Chinese 12AX7C's, it's a win/win for amp builders. Reliable, cheaply priced and can handle the multiple triode duties required out of the Bogner tube layout. And, they know you are going to change tubes anyway, so way would the builder sink and extra $100 in preamp tube cocktails.

Nuff said... The same is with JJ's. Many amp bulders will say that they sound great (I feel opposite ), but they don't say that they think so because they are cheap. Indeed they sound decent but - as You said - there's a poor chance any amp buyer will keep stock tube line-up. I changed mine 5 minutes after I took my amp out of the box

As for the NOS tubes in XTC, I have great experiences with RFT, Philips and Tungsram in gain stages and also with Telefunken smooth plates as a PI. These are worth to try IMO.

Regards, Andy

I don't know what it is about the NOS RFT's, but they sit just right in V1 of every amp I own. I probably have 10-12 of the Neauhaus (East German) one. They have very low noise floor and I have yet to have on go micro on me. If any amp hits hard and needs something to round it out a bit, the RFT is a good choice. I am about like Andy, regardless of the amp, I have an RFT waiting for V1 and an LPS waiting for the PI of damn near everything that comes through. Also, if V3 is the final gain stage and cathode follower, the JJ usually gets ejected. I like Groove Tube Chinese Gen8's in here. Strong, low noise and a little less brittle than the Gen9's.

 

[RSRD]

This is a great read/thread. Especially since Im getting ready to try some new pre's in my xtc classic. What do you all think about NOS GE for V1? Im planning on EHX russians for the rest. Not sure about PI yet..

 

[Setneck]

This is a great read/thread. Especially since Im getting ready to try some new pre's in my xtc classic. What do you all think about NOS GE for V1? Im planning on EHX russians for the rest. Not sure about PI yet..

I have had a chance to try GE tube. It wasn't very strong one, but AFAIR it was quite nice, very balanced, no so aggressive.

As for the PI, I didn't like EHX there. That tube has too much gain and used as PI made my amp oversaturated. But try it in Your amp to see for Yourself.

Huh, XTC is very sensitive for the tube so it is always trail of trying different bottles to find the right set. But it is worth it if You finally find it .

As for the RFT pres, like Steve I find them very useful in every amp. In XTC I like them especially in V2 & V3. I even have a few of those closed in Tesla bottles (RFT internals). These are less aggresive and warmer.

Regards, Andy

 

[RSRD]

since Im re tubbing my ecstasy CLASSIC maybe oversaturated isn't such a bad thing. I'll try a few out and see. Where do you all get your tubes?

 

[se7en]

Changing the pres in an XTC changes the amp dramatically - some change can be desirable - some not so much. If you follow the lead of Jorg or Charlie at Boggy HQ, they'll recommend HG Chinese/Shuguang in every position. I've screwed around with other glass and inevitably went back to HG 12AX7 Chinese in every socket. The changes were quite noticeable and personally, I just liked the amp staying stock sounding.

YMMV.

Mo

Zack already said he didn't want to use Chinese. So, I was throwing some alternatives down from I had done with my XTC's in the past, and future.

Actually, I was planning on using Chinese for V1-V3 at least. I think I mentioned the Ruby HG+ 12ax7's.

 

[RG955TT]

I've tried everything I could in my 2 xtc's, on my 20th it seems best is the Ruby HG5+ I think it's called, in all 3 1st positions v1 v2 and v3. I had a LPS in phase inverter but it seemed slightly mushy and oversaturated (tried 2 different one both matched)so I went with one of the GT SAG MPI chinese and like it better. In my 101B I ended up with Tungsol in V1, and JJ goldpins in V2 and V3, for some reason it seems less compressed and cuts way better with this mix, at least for me. YMMV....let us know what you end up with. BTW I tried some RFT's I got from Laura and they don't seem that great in either amp when I tried them.

 

[Ventura]

Aren't Rubys just Shuguang rebrands?

I'd definitely suggest trying a Gold Lion ECC83 somewhere in the mix, just because they sound fkn tits in every other amp I've tried them in JAN-GE 5751 could make a good PI.

Aw christ this thread is making me wanna shuffle the glass again...

 

[se7en]

Aren't Rubys just Shuguang rebrands?

I'd definitely suggest trying a Gold Lion ECC83 somewhere in the mix, just because they sound fkn tits in every other amp I've tried them in JAN-GE 5751 could make a good PI.

Aw christ this thread is making me wanna shuffle the glass again...

Yep, Ruby's are rebranded Shuguangs.

Thanks for everyone's help. This has been a great read. I'll post my results after I've had a chance to experiment.

 

[steve_k]

Aren't Rubys just Shuguang rebrands?

I'd definitely suggest trying a Gold Lion ECC83 somewhere in the mix, just because they sound fkn tits in every other amp I've tried them in JAN-GE 5751 could make a good PI.

Aw christ this thread is making me wanna shuffle the glass again...

I haven't tried the GL's yet, but they are the closest thing you will find to an original Mullard, it seems. I bet one of these in V1 would be great for the XTC. I have a few 5751's and can be nice in some amps that need a bit of control. With 30% less gain, you have to watch them in PI positions though, as they may blanket the amp a bit. Just depends on the amp, I suppose. V2 or V3 would be a good spot to try the 5751, I think, if you have problems balancing the blue and red channel volumes vs. gain. I tried them in the SLO and had interesting results.

Steve

 

[RSRD]

What would be the most open and aggressive v1 and pi for a classic. Something that keeps the openess of the amp and won't kill the nice clean channel but might add son hi fi crispness to to blue and red?

 

[Setneck]

Try LPS in those spots and EXH or chinese in gain stages.

 

[RSRD]

Try LPS in those spots and EXH or chinese in gain stages.

I have the EXH so those are going in tonight. Will have to order the LPS.