Egnater Mods for me????

  • Thread starter Thread starter richedie
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The Bassman does a really nice clean on A and the AC/DC thing on B. Actually it is our take on the '59 (4x10) Bassman which, in reality, is essentially a clean Marshall. It is the amp Marshall copied, did a few modifications, and called it a JTM45.

The loop on the MOD50 is not necessarily line level. FYI, the individual masters on the modules act as effect loop sends and the main master as an effects return. Often you can balance the two and have your pedals work in the loop. Don't ditch your pedals. There are external gadgets available to cut the send down to instrument level and boost it back up after the pedals if you MUST put a pedal in the loop. Our thought on that is that is seems sort of "anti-tone" to take your expensive, all tube, amplifier and stick a $99 pedal right in line with your main signal path. I see that some of the better pedal lines, TC, Line6, T-Rex and even Roland are starting to hint at some pedals that will work at both line and instrument level hopefully without destroying your tone.
 
No diodes in any Egnater amps. Why? If an amp sounded great but used diodes would that make it not sound as great?
 
bruce egnater":c81e6 said:
No diodes in any Egnater amps. Why? If an amp sounded great but used diodes would that make it not sound as great?
Click to expand...

I am sure you do not use clipping diodes Bruce because you found it more pleasing to the touch and the hear. No?

Anyway, I see what you mean about an amp can still sound good, regardless! I know they use SS diodes in the H&K Switchblade but I love that amp.

Thanks Bruce! I am on board with you but I am just not certain what I would do if not pedals? Maybe the most expensive pedals are the solution. I believe the Jaques pedals I use to be of top quality....but maybe I'll check TC or Line 6. I guess you are encouraging rack? Expensive rack? I see people using the TC Electronics G Major but I always found that to be pretty poor quality and robs so much tone. You really have to get into the expensive rack gear or very expensive pedals.
 
I agree the pedal thing is a dilemma. I understand the frsutration. We want to use the pedals but we don't want the "tone robbing". I guess the real solution is to have an external loop switcher (pedal bypass) gadget so when you are not using the pedals, at least your guitar signal would be routed around them. There are devices out there that can do the bypass and also the level matching.
 
Thanks Bruce. My problem is I like the real time control and simplicity of pedals but I agree quality is important. Luckily this is a new rig I am building with the MOD 50 so I am only getimg started. I have a Boss Tuner up front, Dunlop Wah and ISP Decimater currently up front. I have a Jacques chorus pedal that cost about $129. I am checking out the older Yamaha UD-Stomp as well. Basically just something decent that will not rob tone. I like the true bypass loop option as well - http://www.loop-master.com/
Loop Master seems like a good one but I didn't realize they had untis to do level matching. I haven't gotten the head yet...but I am really hoping I can get my rhythm and lead on separate channels (A and B) to avoid having to always kick in an EQ for leads. If this is the case, I could get away with maybe only a delay and chorus in the loop so I could afford a few nice pedals. Tough call.

So I guess pedals up front are not much of a tone robber. Is it more in the loop that the problem arises?

I just don't want to go back to modelling amps. :no:
 
I think pedals are "tone modifiers" no matter where you put them. Sometimes we like what a pedal does to the tone. Some tend to roll off the high end which can be perceived as added "warmth". I have nothing against pedals. Some of my best friends are pedals? The problem with putting them in the loop is that most were designed to work at guitar level and will easily overload with any "hot" signal. I've seen pedals distort with just a guitar with hot pickups and hard playing. Remember the pedals are designed to operate with a single 9 volt battery...which ain't much. There are design tradeoffs and decisions that must be made when creating a product. The major trade off in the amp would be in order to make the loop instrument (pedal) level, we would need to attenuate the effects send by more than 20dB and then increase the effects return gain by the same amount. This will surely increase the noise level of the amp to where everyone would probably complain that is it too noisy. What to do................
 
What would be your recommendation? I need to at least have a wah and tuner pedal in front of the amp. Mostly in the loop I would need delay and maybe reverb. I could use chorus up front. I guess I could investigate a rack unit for the loop and using midi. However, I thought I read that it would not be a good idea to use chorus in the loop, or is that just the parallel loop? If you run a rack unit, do you suggest the series or parallel? Keep in mind.....all effects would then be going through the loop.
 
bruce egnater":809bb said:
The Bassman does a really nice clean on A and the AC/DC thing on B. Actually it is our take on the '59 (4x10) Bassman which, in reality, is essentially a clean Marshall. It is the amp Marshall copied, did a few modifications, and called it a JTM45.

The loop on the MOD50 is not necessarily line level. FYI, the individual masters on the modules act as effect loop sends and the main master as an effects return. Often you can balance the two and have your pedals work in the loop. Don't ditch your pedals. There are external gadgets available to cut the send down to instrument level and boost it back up after the pedals if you MUST put a pedal in the loop. Our thought on that is that is seems sort of "anti-tone" to take your expensive, all tube, amplifier and stick a $99 pedal right in line with your main signal path. I see that some of the better pedal lines, TC, Line6, T-Rex and even Roland are starting to hint at some pedals that will work at both line and instrument level hopefully without destroying your tone.
Click to expand...

How do I determine which effects work at line level? I would use a chorus up front something to add a lot of depth and dimension to my clean. Maybe the TC Electronic Chorus/Flanger, etc. In the loop, maybe the Boss DD-20. I think the Egnater manual says to not use any chorus in the parallel loop so it will stay up front. Maybe only delay and possibly reverb in the loop - unless I rely on the club's natural verb.
 
Read the tech specs for a pedal or talk to the company. If it can take input signal of +4db it will work in MOD 50 loop.

I believe the TC SCF can take a max imput level of +9db so you could definitely run that in the loop. I use a Boss DD-20 in the loop no problem as it can be switched to take a +4db input signal. As for chorus I dont have the TC, I use Jacques Meistersinger out front and it sounds killer. Clean arpeggios on the T/D with the DD-20 and the Jacques are absolutely fantastic. Basically, heres my chain:

Axess BS-2 -> Boss OC-3 -> MXR EVH Phase 90 -> Budda Wah -> Jacques Meistersinger -> Xotic BB Preamp -> Boss TU-2

Then, just the Boss DD-20 in the loop.

This setup works great for me.

-Matt
 
Thanks Matt! I am still waiting for the MOD 50 to arrive.

I read only the parallel effects loop with time based effects and the series with modulatons, etc.

Is that a lot of tap dancing for you if you want delay and chorus on your clean??? Then again chorus seems to sound best up front.

This is what I have: Les Paul and PRS CE-22 -> Dunlop Crybaby 95Q(switchless) -> Boss TU-2 -> Jacques Meistersinger -> ISP Decimator.
I need a delay for the loop and the Boss seems the best bet and very recommended. I also think the Jacques delay looks nice.

How is the Buddah wah compared to the Dunlop. Is it switchless?!
Boss OC-3?
I thought of the EVH Phase 90 as well.
The Jacques Meistersinger is really nice but Bruce made a comment on cheap pedals in the $99 range so I am wondering if the TC, T-Rex or maybe a Rocktron would beat it.

No noise supressor for you?
No reverb? Our other guitarist really prefers reverb with delay.

Is it a pain running the extra cables for the loop using the delay? I dread the extra cables.
 
Well I run the DD-20 through the serial loop and manage the mix on the pedal itself. Technically it might be better to run it 100% wet through the parallel and use the effects mix on the amp itself. Im going to try that but it sounds fine as is to me.

The Budda Wah is not switchless. It looks exactly like a purple Dunlop. In fact, I had read that they were actually built in the Dunlop factory. However, they are true bypass and have a GREAT vintage Vox wah type sweep. Not harsh, but vocal.

Boss OC-3 is a Octave pedal. The tracking aint great and im sure it sucks some tone, but I think its cool to add to some of my riffs. The EVH Phase 90 probably sucks a little too but its a great phaser.

Basically, the Axess BS-2 has livened up my tone noticably and if there is tone suckage from some pedals I dont care because my rig sounds and feels awesome to my ears!

The Meistersinger sounds great. It wont take a hot signal so it has to go out front, but out there it sounds fantastic. The switch is a little flimsy but the metal casing is solid. For a small size pedal, its the best chorus Ive ever heard.

I wouldnt worry about the extra cables in the loop. its tube buffered and Im sure is a great buffer. What you may want is a buffer out FRONT as the first thing you plug into to convert your signal to low impedance and drive the signal to hit the amp as clean as possible. Something like the Axess BS-2. I notice a definite increase in clarity, high end, and fullness with mine.

No noise supressor or reverb for me. The MOD 50 is really quiet in general so the NS is not necessary. As for reverb, the cleans of the T/D are SO rich I dont need it. A little delay and maybe a little chorus and that clean needs nothing else IMO.

Basically I built my rig to be as compact and toneful as possible. Solid and gig-ready to provide the minimalist tone I need and want. Its not worth effort for me to lug around a rack with reverb, harmonizers, noise gates, EQs, etc. I can set up or tear down my rig in 5 minutes flat and love the tone as it is. And if I dont need the reverb, my audience sure as hell doesnt. They wont even notice its missing. I generally think 90% of guitarists build way too big of a rig. But thats just my opinion.

-Matt
 
Thanks Matt!

I may try to pick up some of those pedals. I am not familiar with the Axess BS-2. Is that like the VHT Valvulator? Thanks.

I like your ideas on your rig and I am going for the same and hoping my J&K Switchblade becomes a backup. I am hoping as well I can do away with the noise supressor to free up room. My VHT UL needed no gate.

Can't wait to hear the clean and if I can get away with few effects to still get a rich and deep clean. I have the Bassman and Deluxe on the way to compare for my clean. What is the T/D?

Xotic BB Preamp?

Rich
 
The Axess BS-2 is just a high quality buffer. I think the Valvulator is a rack preamp, no? If so, not at all the same. The guys at Huge Racks Inc forum have discussed the benefits of a buffer tons of times. Try doing a search there for a scientific explanation. Basically, it converts your guitar's high impedance signal to low and somehow that helps retain the high end and signal strength through a bunch of pedals and up to 100ft of cable. It should be the first think you plug into if you are going to use one. Im not a physicist, but my ears like the difference!

I want a Bassman! I am confident you find quite possibly richest clean tones youve ever heard from a channel switcher in the MOD 50. The Bassman is supposed to be outrageously good (its on my list). I wouldnt worry. With the Meistersinger and a DD-20 youd be SET for cleans. The T/D is one channel clean Twin with a second channel that is a pushed Deluxe. AWESOME clean and bluesy/rock tones. It kills me everytime I use it.

Xotic BB Preamp is an overdrive pedal. It sounds VERY amp-like and is quite smooth. I use it not really for outright solos, but in in-song leads under a chorus or whatever to make a pattern standout. Its also great at driving the T/D on either side. Check out Andy Timmons video demoing it on youtube. Granted, Andy can make anything sound good, but he does a great job really showing what this pedal can do. I love it.

-Matt
 
EWSEthan":2f3d2 said:
The Axess BS-2 is just a high quality buffer. I think the Valvulator is a rack preamp, no? If so, not at all the same. The guys at Huge Racks Inc forum have discussed the benefits of a buffer tons of times. Try doing a search there for a scientific explanation. Basically, it converts your guitar's high impedance signal to low and somehow that helps retain the high end and signal strength through a bunch of pedals and up to 100ft of cable. It should be the first think you plug into if you are going to use one. Im not a physicist, but my ears like the difference!

I want a Bassman! I am confident you find quite possibly richest clean tones youve ever heard from a channel switcher in the MOD 50. The Bassman is supposed to be outrageously good (its on my list). I wouldnt worry. With the Meistersinger and a DD-20 youd be SET for cleans. The T/D is one channel clean Twin with a second channel that is a pushed Deluxe. AWESOME clean and bluesy/rock tones. It kills me everytime I use it.

Xotic BB Preamp is an overdrive pedal. It sounds VERY amp-like and is quite smooth. I use it not really for outright solos, but in in-song leads under a chorus or whatever to make a pattern standout. Its also great at driving the T/D on either side. Check out Andy Timmons video demoing it on youtube. Granted, Andy can make anything sound good, but he does a great job really showing what this pedal can do. I love it.

-Matt
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The BS-2 looks more compact but the Valvulator 1 is a pedal.

The new Nova Delay by TC looks awesome! I am going for that thing! Hopefully it is +4 for the loop.

So, I wonder if the T/D is what i have coming. He is sending the Bassman and the Deluxe he said for me to test. I can keep whichever I like. I was told the Bassman channel B is like a JTM-45, or old AC/DC!

Does the Xotic BB Preamp have a tube? I would only use a solo boost maybe but I would prefer to avoid and only use channel B for leads. I'll see.....

The thing is I like a lot of mids for leads.....I am hopinh I can use A for rhythm and B for lead.
 
I just got my MOD 50 today! I need more time with it at higher volumes to get the final judgenent. I like what I hear so far but I didn't have the master past 9:00 in the house tonight. I have the MHG which seems a touch dark and the Bassman. I also have the Deluxe to test out and see which I prefer.

I am hoping I can use the MHG A for rhythm and the MHG B for lead and so far it seems like it might work without me needing an EQ or boost for leads. I am impressed with how well A and B work together on the modules. Normally I need a boost or drastic EQ for my lead...lots of mids, etc. However, this seems to have a decent voicing for my needs. At higher volumes and once I play around more with EQ, I am sure I'll dial it in. MHG channel A sounds more open and great for chords, B sounds darker and more compressed.

What is the bass boost....on/off or per channel? How about the bright switch....is that only for either A or B, not both? I'll have to read the manual.

To fully take advantage I think I need to upgrade the electronics in my guitars....possibly to top notch pickups and pots/caps. Right now I wish I could roll off the tone knob and get a darker lead tone without getting too muddy. At the same time, I would like to be able to turn down the volume on my guitar without it being like an on/off switch. It needs to be gradual.
 
I see there is the Xotic BB Preamp and the RC booster. You have both? I would like to see if I can get buy with neither however. Remember I am not using many effects. Does this also boost for the loop as well?

Finally, does the BB give that much better a lead tone than the amp alone? Problem with that is I would need to hit the BB and the delay to get my lead.

I guess that wouldn't be that bad when I think about it....because now I have to hit channel B and the delay which is also two stomps. With the BB I would have lead for all channels plus more shaping of the lead tone.

I think that BB preamp is a great idea! It would really make my set up versatile...more than without.

Also Jacques makes some sweet pedals that are similar! Ever look at those?

Can the BB do high gain solos? I like a sweet round tone even for high gain....not harsh. I thought of some modified Tube Screamers or Jacques pedals.
 
So your digging the tone so far..cool

I honestly think you should look at a rack like the rocktron Replifex or something

You have MIDI built in the Egnater .So you do this .
Patch 11..Bassman clean with Chorus ,Delay, Reverb.
patch 12. Bassman dirt with spring verb
atch 13 MHG rythm slap delay.
14 MHG lead .Mid boost on eq ,Delay

Its one step once you program it .
and you have access to like 128 sound .plus the delay and Verb spillover on the Rocktron .Great feature when coming out of a lead and back to rythm.
the just put a wah in the front end
Done ..simple .Rocktron doesnt degrade tone as they are known for this .
Enjoy the amp
cheers
 
gtr31":67296 said:
So your digging the tone so far..cool

I honestly think you should look at a rack like the rocktron Replifex or something

You have MIDI built in the Egnater .So you do this .
Patch 11..Bassman clean with Chorus ,Delay, Reverb.
patch 12. Bassman dirt with spring verb
atch 13 MHG rythm slap delay.
14 MHG lead .Mid boost on eq ,Delay

Its one step once you program it .
and you have access to like 128 sound .plus the delay and Verb spillover on the Rocktron .Great feature when coming out of a lead and back to rythm.
the just put a wah in the front end
Done ..simple .Rocktron doesnt degrade tone as they are known for this .
Enjoy the amp
cheers
Click to expand...

I would be nice having the options and instant patches. I didn't realize the Xpression had an EQ.

Anyway, I was trying to avoid a rack set up. Plus, that would be something extra for me to carry around. With the rack, I'd have to carry the head, cab, pedalboard and rack. If I was going that route....I might as well go with the Egnater preamp, then have that in a rack with a power amp and effects. That would essentially be my head.

With the rack I guess it would have to be the series loop as the paralell loop is not good for EQ or compression, but the parallel loop does not degrade tone as much.
 
I was talking with the guy who sold me the MOD 50 and he ran his delay right into the amp, no loop. I may try the same....heck I know guys playing the VHT Deliverance doing that now! I am trying to keep this very simple and I use delay sparingly! I think I am going to grab an Axess BS-2, and I love Jacques pedals since I already have and love the chorus. I am going to grab his Prisoner delay and the Tube Blower. This way I can have four different channels with a lead boost for each using the Tube Blower.
 
richedie":1fa77 said:
I was talking with the guy who sold me the MOD 50 and he ran his delay right into the amp, no loop. I may try the same....heck I know guys playing the VHT Deliverance doing that now! I am trying to keep this very simple and I use delay sparingly! I think I am going to grab an Axess BS-2, and I love Jacques pedals since I already have and love the chorus. I am going to grab his Prisoner delay and the Tube Blower. This way I can have four different channels with a lead boost for each using the Tube Blower.
Click to expand...

I just dont find using a delay before the preamp ever works for me, especially with any gain. It just sounds like a mess. Let us know what you find though.

-Matt
 
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