Engl Construction Quality Inconsistent Among Various Models?

[MistaGuitah]

I just sold my Artist 100, but right before shipping, I took a look inside to make sure everything was perfect and saw an upside down circuit board connected to the chassis with these plastic rivets they used to use in computers. I didn't see the bias pots so it looks like you have to take off the motherboard just to bias the amp. As far as I know, it's not cathode biased or anything. It wasn't a thick PCB board either. Honestly, it looked very common and not like the quality of a Diezel or something. That didn't seem so great to me.

After reading a lot of things online, I found some consistencies in what people have been saying. One common comment is that the Savage is the most reliably built Engl. They also say, and I suppose it would be obvious, that the special editions and Invader are made better. I do not know, but I have had a few Engls including the Powerball II and the Screamer, and they sounded so good that I always took the build quality for granted. The Artist is a phenomenal sounding amp but after looking inside, I'm not so sure about their quality anymore.

I do not know about the technical engineering aspects but Engl has always been one of my favorites and now I am having second thoughts about buying an Invader. Can someone explain objectively, technically, and without the outrageous opinions about their construction quality? Am I missing something or is there a good reason for putting the motherboard upside down? Please explain.

 

[Speeddemon]

Objectively? I've been gigging with an Invader 100 for 10+ years now without a hitch. Bought mine Sept. '07.
It has always been stored and transported in a custom flight case.

YMMV.

 

[MistaGuitah]

Objectively? I've been gigging with an Invader 100 for 10+ years now without a hitch. Bought mine Sept. '07.
It has always been stored and transported in a custom flight case.

YMMV.

Thanks for your comment because experience says a lot about how reliable gear is. However, I'm not necessarily questioning the reliability but the consistency in how they construct their amps. Also, what's up with the PCB's and other things I mentioned? Is there something I'm missing or have they managed to get away with the cheapest way of being reliable? The plastic rivets were the first thing that threw me off. They could at least mount the PCB more sturdily and with better materials. They could at least use thicker PCB boards too don't you think? I have to say that under the hood, the Artist did not look impressive at all.

 

[napalmdeath]

I just sold my Artist 100, but right before shipping, I took a look inside to make sure everything was perfect and saw an upside down circuit board connected to the chassis with these plastic rivets they used to use in computers. I didn't see the bias pots so it looks like you have to take off the motherboard just to bias the amp. As far as I know, it's not cathode biased or anything. It wasn't a thick PCB board either. Honestly, it looked very common and not like the quality of a Diezel or something. That didn't seem so great to me.

After reading a lot of things online, I found some consistencies in what people have been saying. One common comment is that the Savage is the most reliably built Engl. They also say, and I suppose it would be obvious, that the special editions and Invader are made better. I do not know, but I have had a few Engls including the Powerball II and the Screamer, and they sounded so good that I always took the build quality for granted. The Artist is a phenomenal sounding amp but after looking inside, I'm not so sure about their quality anymore.

I do not know about the technical engineering aspects but Engl has always been one of my favorites and now I am having second thoughts about buying an Invader. Can someone explain objectively, technically, and without the outrageous opinions about their construction quality? Am I missing something or is there a good reason for putting the motherboard upside down? Please explain.

Man, I love that amp. Been wanting the 50 watt.

 

[MistaGuitah]

I just sold my Artist 100, but right before shipping, I took a look inside to make sure everything was perfect and saw an upside down circuit board connected to the chassis with these plastic rivets they used to use in computers. I didn't see the bias pots so it looks like you have to take off the motherboard just to bias the amp. As far as I know, it's not cathode biased or anything. It wasn't a thick PCB board either. Honestly, it looked very common and not like the quality of a Diezel or something. That didn't seem so great to me.

After reading a lot of things online, I found some consistencies in what people have been saying. One common comment is that the Savage is the most reliably built Engl. They also say, and I suppose it would be obvious, that the special editions and Invader are made better. I do not know, but I have had a few Engls including the Powerball II and the Screamer, and they sounded so good that I always took the build quality for granted. The Artist is a phenomenal sounding amp but after looking inside, I'm not so sure about their quality anymore.

I do not know about the technical engineering aspects but Engl has always been one of my favorites and now I am having second thoughts about buying an Invader. Can someone explain objectively, technically, and without the outrageous opinions about their construction quality? Am I missing something or is there a good reason for putting the motherboard upside down? Please explain.

Man, I love that amp. Been wanting the 50 watt.

Have you tried them yet? You might consider the 100w. I liked it a little better. It seems a little fuller and was actually better at low volume.

 

[napalmdeath]

I just sold my Artist 100, but right before shipping, I took a look inside to make sure everything was perfect and saw an upside down circuit board connected to the chassis with these plastic rivets they used to use in computers. I didn't see the bias pots so it looks like you have to take off the motherboard just to bias the amp. As far as I know, it's not cathode biased or anything. It wasn't a thick PCB board either. Honestly, it looked very common and not like the quality of a Diezel or something. That didn't seem so great to me.

After reading a lot of things online, I found some consistencies in what people have been saying. One common comment is that the Savage is the most reliably built Engl. They also say, and I suppose it would be obvious, that the special editions and Invader are made better. I do not know, but I have had a few Engls including the Powerball II and the Screamer, and they sounded so good that I always took the build quality for granted. The Artist is a phenomenal sounding amp but after looking inside, I'm not so sure about their quality anymore.

I do not know about the technical engineering aspects but Engl has always been one of my favorites and now I am having second thoughts about buying an Invader. Can someone explain objectively, technically, and without the outrageous opinions about their construction quality? Am I missing something or is there a good reason for putting the motherboard upside down? Please explain.

Man, I love that amp. Been wanting the 50 watt.

Have you tried them yet? You might consider the 100w. I liked it a little better. It seems a little fuller and was actually better at low volume.

Nope. Owned a Fireball 100, and Retro Tube, (a very SICK, underrated amp that I regret selling). The Retro was EL34's as well, and it had that hot-rodded Marshall thing that the Artists seem to have.

The Retro is a beast... Skip the noodling - 3:30 starts the good stuff, plays a Strat too, then an LP again at 10:00.

 

[MistaGuitah]

I REALLY wanted to like the Retro. The idea of it was super cool when Engl came out with it. I played it many times trying to figure out why I couldn't gel with it, but can't exactly say what I disliked about it. It was only good at the highest gain. Everything else was kind of meh. The Artist on the other hand is more open, organic, and straightforward good tone. I'm thinking if you liked the Retro that much then you'll like the Artist even more.

 

[napalmdeath]

I REALLY wanted to like the Retro. The idea of it was super cool when Engl came out with it. I played it many times trying to figure out why I couldn't gel with it, but can't exactly say what I disliked about it. It was only good at the highest gain. Everything else was kind of meh. The Artist on the other hand is more open, organic, and straightforward good tone. I'm thinking if you liked the Retro that much then you'll like the Artist even more.

My experience was the same. High gain tones were killer, everything else, meh.. But, those high gain tones, man.... Also, I got it for $850??? You don't see many these days..

Yes, I'm absolutely convinced I'd love the Artist. I've wanted one since they came out, and stupidly spent money on amps more expensive, (Helios, for one), and even a Friedman, and the Artist was kinda forgotten. I'll have one eventually.

 

[Beyond Black]

I just sold my Artist 100, but right before shipping, I took a look inside to make sure everything was perfect and saw an upside down circuit board connected to the chassis with these plastic rivets they used to use in computers. I didn't see the bias pots so it looks like you have to take off the motherboard just to bias the amp. As far as I know, it's not cathode biased or anything. It wasn't a thick PCB board either. Honestly, it looked very common and not like the quality of a Diezel or something. That didn't seem so great to me.

After reading a lot of things online, I found some consistencies in what people have been saying. One common comment is that the Savage is the most reliably built Engl. They also say, and I suppose it would be obvious, that the special editions and Invader are made better. I do not know, but I have had a few Engls including the Powerball II and the Screamer, and they sounded so good that I always took the build quality for granted. The Artist is a phenomenal sounding amp but after looking inside, I'm not so sure about their quality anymore.

I do not know about the technical engineering aspects but Engl has always been one of my favorites and now I am having second thoughts about buying an Invader. Can someone explain objectively, technically, and without the outrageous opinions about their construction quality? Am I missing something or is there a good reason for putting the motherboard upside down? Please explain.

Man, I love that amp. Been wanting the 50 watt.

Have you tried them yet? You might consider the 100w. I liked it a little better. It seems a little fuller and was actually better at low volume.

Nope. Owned a Fireball 100, and Retro Tube, (a very SICK, underrated amp that I regret selling). The Retro was EL34's as well, and it had that hot-rodded Marshall thing that the Artists seem to have.

The Retro is a beast... Skip the noodling - 3:30 starts the good stuff, plays a Strat too, then an LP again at 10:00.

I've got a RT 100 and that's the video that sold me on it. I love it, it's a killer amp.

 

[braintheory]

I agree with Mista and Napalm about the Artist and Retro. I think the Artist is much better and is Engl's most organic/least processed sounding and open amp. For my taste I'd say either the Artist or Marty Friedman model are my 2nd favorite Engl's, but I still like the SE EL34 model best. It has a very complete, aggressive growl and has a bottom end that hits you in a way that I haven't heard in any other amp yet. It is more compressed and processed sounding than I'd like, but still my overall favorite Engl and am on the lookout for one at the right price

 

[napalmdeath]

I just sold my Artist 100, but right before shipping, I took a look inside to make sure everything was perfect and saw an upside down circuit board connected to the chassis with these plastic rivets they used to use in computers. I didn't see the bias pots so it looks like you have to take off the motherboard just to bias the amp. As far as I know, it's not cathode biased or anything. It wasn't a thick PCB board either. Honestly, it looked very common and not like the quality of a Diezel or something. That didn't seem so great to me.

After reading a lot of things online, I found some consistencies in what people have been saying. One common comment is that the Savage is the most reliably built Engl. They also say, and I suppose it would be obvious, that the special editions and Invader are made better. I do not know, but I have had a few Engls including the Powerball II and the Screamer, and they sounded so good that I always took the build quality for granted. The Artist is a phenomenal sounding amp but after looking inside, I'm not so sure about their quality anymore.

I do not know about the technical engineering aspects but Engl has always been one of my favorites and now I am having second thoughts about buying an Invader. Can someone explain objectively, technically, and without the outrageous opinions about their construction quality? Am I missing something or is there a good reason for putting the motherboard upside down? Please explain.

Man, I love that amp. Been wanting the 50 watt.

Have you tried them yet? You might consider the 100w. I liked it a little better. It seems a little fuller and was actually better at low volume.

Nope. Owned a Fireball 100, and Retro Tube, (a very SICK, underrated amp that I regret selling). The Retro was EL34's as well, and it had that hot-rodded Marshall thing that the Artists seem to have.

The Retro is a beast... Skip the noodling - 3:30 starts the good stuff, plays a Strat too, then an LP again at 10:00.

I've got a RT 100 and that's the video that sold me on it. I love it, it's a killer amp.

I think I'm the one that talked you into it!

 

[Tone Monster]

Engl build quality is dogshit. Sorry it just is. They do, however, have some great sounding circuits.

 

[Beyond Black]

I just sold my Artist 100, but right before shipping, I took a look inside to make sure everything was perfect and saw an upside down circuit board connected to the chassis with these plastic rivets they used to use in computers. I didn't see the bias pots so it looks like you have to take off the motherboard just to bias the amp. As far as I know, it's not cathode biased or anything. It wasn't a thick PCB board either. Honestly, it looked very common and not like the quality of a Diezel or something. That didn't seem so great to me.

After reading a lot of things online, I found some consistencies in what people have been saying. One common comment is that the Savage is the most reliably built Engl. They also say, and I suppose it would be obvious, that the special editions and Invader are made better. I do not know, but I have had a few Engls including the Powerball II and the Screamer, and they sounded so good that I always took the build quality for granted. The Artist is a phenomenal sounding amp but after looking inside, I'm not so sure about their quality anymore.

I do not know about the technical engineering aspects but Engl has always been one of my favorites and now I am having second thoughts about buying an Invader. Can someone explain objectively, technically, and without the outrageous opinions about their construction quality? Am I missing something or is there a good reason for putting the motherboard upside down? Please explain.

Man, I love that amp. Been wanting the 50 watt.

Have you tried them yet? You might consider the 100w. I liked it a little better. It seems a little fuller and was actually better at low volume.

Nope. Owned a Fireball 100, and Retro Tube, (a very SICK, underrated amp that I regret selling). The Retro was EL34's as well, and it had that hot-rodded Marshall thing that the Artists seem to have.

The Retro is a beast... Skip the noodling - 3:30 starts the good stuff, plays a Strat too, then an LP again at 10:00.

I've got a RT 100 and that's the video that sold me on it. I love it, it's a killer amp.

I think I'm the one that talked you into it!

Yeah, I think you are too. Enabler!!!

 

[MistaGuitah]

OK well since we've digressed, does anyone have some gut shots of the Retro? I'm wondering what it looks like under the hood.

 

[Speeddemon]

Engl build quality is dogshit. Sorry it just is.

Care to elaborate?
I mean, throwing out blunt statements like that without any backing...


I could equally say "Hillary would be the better choice for yer country. Sorry it just is" and let's see the shitstorm unfold.

 

[MistaGuitah]

Engl build quality is dogshit. Sorry it just is.

Care to elaborate?
I mean, throwing out blunt statements like that without any backing...


I could equally say "Hillary would be the better choice for yer country. Sorry it just is" and let's see the shitstorm unfold.

Yes indeed a shitstorm would brew, but only because there is more truth in his "Engl build quality is dogshit" statement than in your political analogy

No, I agree. Outrageous statements like that aren't helpful to anyone. At least he recognizes great tone though.

 

[Speeddemon]

Yes indeed a shitstorm would brew, but only because there is more truth in his "Engl build quality is dogshit" statement than in your political analogy
.

As a European, I disagree.

Then again, I get my news from multiple sources.

 

[glip22]

One of the cheapest built amps. Thin PCB's, little plastic pots. tiny transformers. They do sound pretty good. The only issue I had was on my Invader 100 where the bias kept running away. I found a lifted solder trace in the bias circuit. Really cheap solder traces also. They do use ribbon cables as well. Way overpriced for the build quality. They are well designed circuits though. To each his own. I had an Invader 150, Invader 100, Blackmore, Artist, and a limited Fireball.

 

[MistaGuitah]

One of the cheapest built amps. Thin PCB's, little plastic pots. tiny transformers. They do sound pretty good. The only issue I had was on my Invader 100 where the bias kept running away. I found a lifted solder trace in the bias circuit. Really cheap solder traces also. They do use ribbon cables as well. Way overpriced for the build quality. They are well designed circuits though. To each his own. I had an Invader 150, Invader 100, Blackmore, Artist, and a limited Fireball.

I'm assuming you know your stuff so this is very disappointing to hear. The Invader II is a dream amp for me. I had a Screamer and a Powerball II for two years and never even looked inside them. They played flawlessly. It wasn't until I opened my Artist that I saw the PCB construction and got a little spooked. Still, I can't get that sound out of my head so if I can find an Invader II at a low price, I'm going to buy it. Then I'll take it to a tech I know and see if he can give it a good look and improve any potential issues.

 

[glip22]

One of the cheapest built amps. Thin PCB's, little plastic pots. tiny transformers. They do sound pretty good. The only issue I had was on my Invader 100 where the bias kept running away. I found a lifted solder trace in the bias circuit. Really cheap solder traces also. They do use ribbon cables as well. Way overpriced for the build quality. They are well designed circuits though. To each his own. I had an Invader 150, Invader 100, Blackmore, Artist, and a limited Fireball.

I'm assuming you know your stuff so this is very disappointing to hear. The Invader II is a dream amp for me. I had a Screamer and a Powerball II for two years and never even looked inside them. They played flawlessly. It wasn't until I opened my Artist that I saw the PCB construction and got a little spooked. Still, I can't get that sound out of my head so if I can find an Invader II at a low price, I'm going to buy it. Then I'll take it to a tech I know and see if he can give it a good look and improve any potential issues.

Only my observations. I'm not bashing Engl. They are designed well so issues should not arise often; actaully quite sophisticated in their options. When I pay up for an amp, I want to see and feel an amp. Look at the little tiny PCB mounted plastic pots in the Artist. The transformers are a joke. Where's the iron Not for me but many don't care as long as they hold up and sound good, which they do. The ones I played all had that Engl core tone to them so they are unique.