Engl Construction Quality Inconsistent Among Various Models?

[zuel69]

One of the cheapest built amps. Thin PCB's, little plastic pots. tiny transformers. They do sound pretty good. The only issue I had was on my Invader 100 where the bias kept running away. I found a lifted solder trace in the bias circuit. Really cheap solder traces also. They do use ribbon cables as well. Way overpriced for the build quality. They are well designed circuits though. To each his own. I had an Invader 150, Invader 100, Blackmore, Artist, and a limited Fireball.

Absolutely right. I got a tear fest back in a Marshall JVM build quality thread a while back. Same shit different company, it's called cost cutting...I do have to hand it to the engineers because they do make the amps sound really good tho. I learned about this stuff working for Moog who then contract manufactured the pcb boards for Hiwatt amps way back when.

 

[MistaGuitah]

One of the cheapest built amps. Thin PCB's, little plastic pots. tiny transformers. They do sound pretty good. The only issue I had was on my Invader 100 where the bias kept running away. I found a lifted solder trace in the bias circuit. Really cheap solder traces also. They do use ribbon cables as well. Way overpriced for the build quality. They are well designed circuits though. To each his own. I had an Invader 150, Invader 100, Blackmore, Artist, and a limited Fireball.

Absolutely right. I got a tear fest back in a Marshall JVM build quality thread a while back. Same shit different company, it's called cost cutting...I do have to hand it to the engineers because they do make the amps sound really good tho. I learned about this stuff working for Moog who then contract manufactured the pcb boards for Hiwatt amps way back when.

Maybe there's something to those Voodoo Amp mods and stuff. I never tried one, but I wonder if they actually improve the amps and make them more reliable. I know the JVM to be very reliable, never had any issues with my Engls, and I had a Mexican made Fender Blues Junior for 4 years with zero issues. I guess the big companies really have come up with just the right margin between cost-cutting and reliability.

 

[Red_Label]

I REALLY wanted to like the Retro. The idea of it was super cool when Engl came out with it. I played it many times trying to figure out why I couldn't gel with it, but can't exactly say what I disliked about it. It was only good at the highest gain. Everything else was kind of meh. The Artist on the other hand is more open, organic, and straightforward good tone. I'm thinking if you liked the Retro that much then you'll like the Artist even more.

Same. Had a Retro at the house for a few days or weeks and thought it was a turd. It was supposed to be a nod to Marshall. It failed miserably at that. I had a Powerball II that was good for high gain stuff. But I never really messed with the Retro for high gain, because that's not what it was supposed to be. As far as getting retro Marshall tones out of an Engl, the Richie Blackmore was the best that I ever heard from an Engl. I really liked that head.

 

[zuel69]

Yea, you can't blame them. I did have a platinum modded JVM with the 2007 original order JVM and I really liked the original better, less sterile at bedroom volume. Sure you can do things to keep things more stable with RTV, re-flowing solder, re doing some of the ribbon cables if possible. I did all that to my Marshall TSL when it failed on me live and it worked fine after that.

 

[xzyryabx]

Who cares how they're built vs other amps?
They sound amazingly good, and I never hear of them breaking down any more than the other over-engineered amps.
90% (pulled that outta my ass) of players are bedroom warriors or just need to take amps to band practice, so making a decision based on nit picking build quality seems ridiculous to me.
Even if you're touring, any amp will get busted if abused enough.
And for the record, tons of touring players use ENGL amps.
Reminds of all the keyboard warriors out there cork sniffing tube ratings.

 

[Crunchtime]

Only thing I would worry about is I've read about guys having trouble finding a tech willing or competent to work on Engl amps. Of course, this is just info I read on internet so it may be bogus.

 

[the4thlast1]

This is only my opinion , I am basing this off of what I know from working in the electrical industry (although not on amplifiers) ..I think the issue with ENGL is that they might not be properly fuse protected. I have owned around 6 or 7 different model ENGLs in the past , the SE I have owned more than once. Anyways out of the several amplifiers from ENGL I have owned two of them had to be repaired. Both times it was because of power tube issues , Bad tube or bad probe taking out several other components. With my SE a big section of the main board went up in smoke along with some other components in other places just from a power tube.

Point being is that with any other amplifier I have had when there is a tube issue a fuse will blow before anything else is damaged . I had a fireball that also needed to be repaired due to a faulty bias probe being used. I didnt know it at the time but there was an issue with my probe , I used it on the fireball and it fried some components internally. Since I was unaware the probe was the issue I later used the same probe on a different brand amplifier and the main fuse blew. Nothing else was taken out, I just replaced the fuse and back in business never to use that probe again. Same thing should have happened with the ENGL , a fuse should go first. once again these are my assumptions , maybe I was unlucky and there design is fine it just seems odd to me Ive never had an issue with a Bogner, Diezel, Fryette, Mesa, Peavy etc etc etc other than changing tubes or fuses.

 

[napalmdeath]

Yes indeed a shitstorm would brew, but only because there is more truth in his "Engl build quality is dogshit" statement than in your political analogy
.

As a European, I disagree.

Then again, I get my news from multiple sources.

Stop digressing. This is serious stuff here...

 

[napalmdeath]

I REALLY wanted to like the Retro. The idea of it was super cool when Engl came out with it. I played it many times trying to figure out why I couldn't gel with it, but can't exactly say what I disliked about it. It was only good at the highest gain. Everything else was kind of meh. The Artist on the other hand is more open, organic, and straightforward good tone. I'm thinking if you liked the Retro that much then you'll like the Artist even more.

Same. Had a Retro at the house for a few days or weeks and thought it was a turd. It was supposed to be a nod to Marshall. It failed miserably at that. I had a Powerball II that was good for high gain stuff. But I never really messed with the Retro for high gain, because that's not what it was supposed to be. As far as getting retro Marshall tones out of an Engl, the Richie Blackmore was the best that I ever heard from an Engl. I really liked that head.

The Retro had near 5150 levels of gain, ample gain. I also found it very Marshall in it's voicing. The odd thing about that amp is, it excelled at high gain, but was marketed in such a way you'd think it had very little.

 

[zuel69]

Who cares how they're built vs other amps?
They sound amazingly good, and I never hear of them breaking down any more than the other over-engineered amps.
90% (pulled that outta my ass) of players are bedroom warriors or just need to take amps to band practice, so making a decision based on nit picking build quality seems ridiculous to me.
Even if you're touring, any amp will get busted if abused enough.
And for the record, tons of touring players use ENGL amps.
Reminds of all the keyboard warriors out there cork sniffing tube ratings.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with appreciating quality, but I agree with you for the right price and if it sounds good who cares...still bring a back up amp to a gig no matter who made it.

 

[Deleted member 13074]

Anyone got info on tube bias for the Artist Edition?
Having a bunch of great amps and been through just about everything, I picked one up from a retailer within the past year
The amp says, 'this is the modded Marshall you were looking for', every time I plug it in
I need to pull the chassis and take a look

 

[napalmdeath]

They're easy to bias. Haven't done one, but did do a Retro and Fireball 100. Can't imagine it would be any different.

 

[shredhead7]

I had a powerball that I gigged quite extensively in the mid 2000's, with no road case. It did get bumped on the face by a piece of gear in the back of the van that damaged the crunch channel volume pot. I took it to a tech who said that it was cheap plastic, but easily enough replaced. It worked as good as new after that. So, probably Chinese parts, but it did hold up really well, considering it wasn't in a case.

 

[XSSIVE]

I was curious (since I've always wanted an Artist and used to own a 1st gen Powerball) so I found some pics inside an Artist for those who are also curious.

The bias pot is a tiny hole through the PCB. If you look to the left of the blue ring around the ribbon cable you'll see the tiny white bias pot in the center of three solder pads in a triangle shape.

 

[napalmdeath]

The bias pot is a tiny hole through the PCB. If you look to the left of the blue ring around the ribbon cable you'll see the tiny white bias pot in the center of three solder pads in a triangle shape.

Yep, same layout as the Fireball 100, & Retro. The thing about these, is they are biased kinda cold, and the sweep of available adjustment is minimal. You really have to find the right rated tubes to get it in range. If you order a pair too cold, you'll never get them up there.

 

[Deleted member 13074]

I appreciate the info on the bias pot and toobs

 

[napalmdeath]

I appreciate the info on the bias pot and toobs

Real easy to do. I used a Eurotubes Pro one, which shows the plate voltage and bias. Or, you can use a plain old bias probe and multimeter. It's good to know the plate voltage, but I think it's safe to assume they're all in the same ballpark.

I put KT77's in the Retro. Sounded killer, but I only used high gain.

 

[Tone Monster]

I owned an SE for years. They are built very cheaply. PCB mounted sockets. Iffy soldering. Looks like the inside of a computer. Just flimsy feeling overall. And sure enough one day it blew up and fried. I bought it new and never even moved the damn thing. Sounded pretty damn mean though. I'll never own another one that's for sure. YMMV, IMHO, blah blah blah.

 

[gibson5413]

This has been discussed a lot over the years. I was an owner of a Powerball and the SE EL34. They were cool for me at the time but I had an SE absolutely meltdown on me. I was directed to a few techs to have it looked at. All of them scratched their heads. I got a warranty replacement and sold it. Made me nervous to have so much money invested in an amp that could just burn down. Again, this was just my experience. I am not taking sides on this fight as everyone has the right to get what they want. I thought they were cool amps but it's just not my thing any longer.

Here's a thread from back in HCAF days. I remember this thread as it happened. It's a long read but interesting.

http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/for ... 8/1616844-

 

[D-Rock]

I owned a FB100 and the biggest reason for me selling it (other than owning other amps that did the straight up metal tones better) was how cheaply made it appeared to be. I'd also heard horror stories about getting the ENGL brand serviced/fixed locally. So, off it went to some other poor soul...