EVH SDE-3000 pedal wdw issues

[John4021]

The pedal is using the loop and the input straight into the pedal.
Then the returns on each wet/wet (left and right) are going inot the pedal

Its like plugging straight into the return from the guitar which, bypasses the volumes and eq.

But why would the Shiva be totally independent of the main amp(Fortin) and be able to use its master volume.

I give up.

 

[John4021]

The EVH amps are intentionally designed this way to facilitate slaving and W/D/W. The master is before the loop, so when you have three EVH heads set up you can control the volume on all three with the center amp. Mixing EVH amps with amps that have the master post-return is what leads to the balance issues.

Eddie himself did not use three heads for wet/dry/wet. The speaker output from his live head went through a line tap box that passed the signal straight through to the center cab, while splitting off a line-level signal that ran to his rack. The PCM70 (used for Cathedral and Everybody Wants Some) split the mono input into L and R signals, with each one running through a dedicated SDE-3000 (a mono unit). The outputs from the delays went into solid state power amps that drove the left and right cabs.

The EVH delay pedal has two separate stereo delay engines. This is an enhancement over the original mono units. However, the true-to-Ed setting is two mono delays in parallel. If you're using stereo delays then you won't be able to balance the levels between the left in right channels, but for DDL1 and DDL2 each you CAN control the amount of dry signal and the output individually, so you can try to balance them out that way. The dry level controls are hidden in the SETUP menu.

You could also try inserting a volume control after the delay to dim down the signal hitting the EVH, or use a mixer.

You busy this weekend..come set this up for me....LOL

 

[phil b]

The pedal is using the loop and the input straight into the pedal.
Then the returns on each wet/wet (left and right) are going inot the pedal

Its like plugging straight into the return from the guitar which, bypasses the volumes and eq.

But why would the Shiva be totally independent of the main amp(Fortin) and be able to use its master volume.

I give up.

Placement of the loop/master in the amp itself.

 

[romanianreaper]

He has it Just the same as the manual shows.
You seeing something I'm not?

Yeah you are right, I was thinking outer cabs was outer jacks.

Agree the manual is no help.

I'm not even plugged into the input jack of the pedal. I plug into my boosts, etc and go right into my amp's front input. I run the send and return of my same amp's effects loop into the return and send on the pedal. Then I just run a return out from the effects loop of the second amp I to a return jack on the pedal.

 

[John4021]

So,
....to end this on a high note and quoted by someome else on this forum;
" Pete T mad me buy shit I didnt want"
LOL

 

[Panhead5]

I have a w/d/w setup but use a stereo power amp for the wet cabs. Center cab is dry. Marshall jcm800 2203 is main amp.
I had a friend help me get this set up and i am not the most knowledgeable about wdw setups lol.
I just bought a mixer to add to it to blend in more dry into wet cabs which make it sound even fuller. I will need help figuring out how to hook up the mixer lol.

Only thing I can tell you is with my stereo power amp (BGW), VOLUME for all 3 cabs is controlled from the mashall. Never have to touch the stereo power amp volume. It follows the volume from marshall. Love that.

What are you using for a tap or line out to your effects on the 2203? I get the rest of the setup .

 

[Briman24]

What are you using for a tap or line out to your effects on the 2203? I get the rest of the setup .

I am using a David Bray box LO-1. That splits speaker out from marshall. One goes to dry cab and the other is line level going to my wet pedals and then those go out stereo to my power amp.
My dilema is where and how do i hook up this mixer i just bought for this weekend? I think i will need to go line out of bray box to the mixer then to pedals and also power amp?

 

[Briman24]

I am using a David Bray box LO-1. That splits speaker out from marshall. One goes to dry cab and the other is line level going to my wet pedals and then those go out stereo to my power amp.
My dilema is where and how do i hook up this mixer i just bought for this weekend? I think i will need to go line out of bray box to the mixer then to pedals and also power amp?

https://reverb.com/ca/item/18069275-bray-lo-1-line-out-box

 

[Panhead5]

I am using a David Bray box LO-1. That splits speaker out from marshall. One goes to dry cab and the other is line level going to my wet pedals and then those go out stereo to my power amp.
My dilema is where and how do i hook up this mixer i just bought for this weekend? I think i will need to go line out of bray box to the mixer then to pedals and also power amp?

That's the same setup I have but I'm not doing stereo ------Yet ! Just dry/wet

 

[harddriver]

You never really said...how are you getting your dry signal from the Fortin? Does it have a line out that taps the signal at the speaker jack for slaving?

Or are you using the send/out of the loop? If you are using the loop send/out you are missing all of the effects of the power amp going to your wet cabs and that won't sound very good.

You want 100% of the slaved amp signal preamp and power amp being reamped by your slave amps that's why the Suhr and the Bray Line out taps the speaker jack and then converts that to a line level line out signal.

 

[romanianreaper]

I tried to get the WDW setup tonight and for the life of me couldn't get any sound. I don't know what the hell I did. So I just went back to two amps in stereo and took me forever to get that set up. I was doing something wrong and finally figured it out. I didn't have the damn send returning from the main amp.

The manual doesn't do a good job at all with explaining the setup completely. I have mine setup different for the two amps than what is in the manual and sound great.

 

[John4021]

You never really said...how are you getting your dry signal from the Fortin? Does it have a line out that taps the signal at the speaker jack for slaving?

Or are you using the send/out of the loop? If you are using the loop send/out you are missing all of the effects of the power amp going to your wet cabs and that won't sound very good.

You want 100% of the slaved amp signal preamp and power amp being reamped by your slave amps that's why the Suhr and the Bray Line out taps the speaker jack and then converts that to a line level line out signal.

I cant find a way to copy/paste the diagram
I swapped out the EVH Stealth head with a Friedman BE100 Deluxe and it works fine.

both left and right amps have MASTERS. The EVH does not

The only way to use the EVH Stealth amp is to make it the dry amp then use whatever for the left/right amps. using

It just mind boggled me on whats so hard to make the set up work.

If,,IF I got a Surh line box (or whatever that fucking thing is called) someone said thaat would make the EVH usable as a wet amp.

I WANT simple /stupid .

 

[harddriver]

I cant find a way to copy/paste the diagram
I swapped out the EVH Stealth head with a Friedman BE100 Deluxe and it works fine.

both left and right amps have MASTERS. The EVH does not

The only way to use the EVH Stealth amp is to make it the dry amp then use whatever for the left/right amps. using

It just mind boggled me on whats so hard to make the set up work.

If,,IF I got a Surh line box (or whatever that fucking thing is called) someone said thaat would make the EVH usable as a wet amp.

I WANT simple /stupid .

I keep asking.... how exactly are you tapping the signal at the Fortin amp? Are your using a dedicated Slave/Line out jack that has a volume level control and it taps the signal at the speaker jacks or are you using the Loop send/out jack? I need to know the answer to the above question as this will also affect things.

Some builders have a level control/volume for their slave out jack and some don't it's just a set line level which can be too hot or not enough. You should not be using the loop send/out front he Fortin for slaving W/D/W. The EVH 100 amp has a preamp only out( similar to a loop send out signal) that would feed the power amp section of the slave EVH head which Eddie only uses the preamp out. This is designed to work pretty much only with other EVH 100 amps. You need to tap the complete signal at the speaker jack as I described to set W/D/W up correctly.

If the Fortin has a dedicated Slave/Lineout jack that is tapping the signal from the speaker jack that would be pretty much the same as the Suhr Iso line out minus the transformer isolated design and a dedicated level/volume control before the effects. You would have to decide if that is worth it to you.

If the Fortin does not have a dedicated line out that taps the signal at the speaker jack then YES I would recommend the Suhr Iso Line out which was specifically built for W/D/W slaving.

Your complete signal from the speaker jack would go to the Suhr and then you can control the volume/level of that signal on the Suhr to set you signal to your desired amount before it hits your effects. Then your EVH3000 delay would take the mono input signal and then split it into your left 250ms and right 250ms delays in to your L+R that then gets fed to your two seperate power amp inputs. Your dry signal for your dry cabinet is coming directly from the Fortin amp alone controlled by that amps master volume. You are only routing a mono signal from the speaker jack to the Suhr Iso line out mono into the Boss SDE3000 which there it is split into two separate L & R signals with two separate delays.

I run my W/D/W exactly the way I have explained with a Boss DD500 and the Suhr Iso line out and it works perfectly. I use my two channel Matrix GT1000FX or Peavey 50/50 for my W/D/W it works the same. I also use the Shur to reamp into my Musicman HD130 or Fender Bandmaster the way Ed did for his 78 tour but I am still tapping the same signal at the speaker jack only as there are no loops installed in my 68 or 72 Marshalls. Either way I think I have explained why using a loop send is not the best way to tap the signal for a true W/D/W setup.

Again if you are using the loop send/out from the Fortin you are only getting the preamp signal and nothing from what the power amp(power tubes) impart to the overall sound of the amp is not getting to your effects or your power amp heads reamping your L+R wet signals.

W/D/W is not that difficult to setup but the layout and number of cords get to be a bit much.

I hope some of this helps and I hope I explained how and why if you are using the preamp signal from the Fortin loop is inadequate to get the best overall tone and bigness from a W/D/W setup.

 

[John4021]

From the Fortin,.....loop send to pedal return.
Loop return to pedal direct out.
Input from amp to pedal send.
Guitar gets plugged into mono input on the pedal

 

[John4021]

No slave control on the Fortin

And the EVH which does have a line out( "Power Out") has no volume control

 

[GOHOINC]

Using a Fortin Cali for main amp
EVH Stealth 6L6 Head /return loop only right side
Bogner 20th Shiva/ return loop only left side

The 4-cable method is simple stupid, BUT The Stealth amp return has no volume control and is WAY louder than the Fortin and Shiva.

You CANNOT control any volumes on the EVH head.
Any similar YouTube video running the same factory diagram 4 cable method sounds killer.

I did a GLOBAL Reset on the SDE-3000 EVH pedal which did nothing.
Like I stated,its simple and should be working correctly right from the Factory settings.

I am able to control the volume on the Bogner return with the Master volume but the Steath amp...no go

What the heck

Seeing this a little late. Throw a jhs lbab after the delay into the return loop of the stealth. This will give you volume control on the return.

 

[John4021]

Chippy shows the setup and has a picture from the manual embedded in his video.

 

[John4021]

Seeing this a little late. Throw a jhs lbab after the delay into the return loop of the stealth. This will give you volume control on the return.

Thats WAY cheaper than the Suhr ISO.

UNLESS the build/noise floor is better,then I see no reason the spend $180 vs $65

 

[GreatRedDragon]

I cant find a way to copy/paste the diagram
I swapped out the EVH Stealth head with a Friedman BE100 Deluxe and it works fine.

both left and right amps have MASTERS. The EVH does not

The only way to use the EVH Stealth amp is to make it the dry amp then use whatever for the left/right amps. using

It just mind boggled me on whats so hard to make the set up work.

If,,IF I got a Surh line box (or whatever that fucking thing is called) someone said thaat would make the EVH usable as a wet amp.

I WANT simple /stupid .

If you want simple then you're barking up the wrong tree with W/D/W. One is a lot simpler than three.

I think the reason you're getting tripped up is because you're using the EVH pedal. The EVH pedal is designed for W/D/W, but it's designed for W/D/W with EVH amps, which are themselves designed for W/D/W. It functions as a three-way splitter, which is great, but unless you're using an EVH amp for your dry (or another amp with the same loop/master placement) you'll need to do some problem solving and likely need additional gear as well.

So there are two basic options on how to use the pedal with W/D/W.

1) The way Boss/EVH intended: Use an EVH head (or, again, another head configured the same way) for your dry signal, put the pedal in the loop and send the left and right outputs to the loop returns of three different amps.

2) The way Eddie did it: Line tap (with either your head's line out or a separate box), with the line-level signal going into the pedal, then out from the pedal into a stereo power amp.

Option #1 requires three heads and the EVH pedal. Presence and resonance controls can be used to shape the final sound, and you can mix different heads for different tonal effects, but the delays will be colored by the power amp distortion.

Option #2 requires only one head and the standard version of the pedal, but also needs a stereo power amp (or two mono power amps) and a line-tap if your dry amp doesn't have a line-out built in. The delays aren't colored by the power amp distortion.

If you're doing Option #1 with mismatched heads, that's where volume controls (like the JHS) get involved.

 

[harddriver]

From the Fortin,.....loop send to pedal return.
Loop return to pedal direct out.
Input from amp to pedal send.
Guitar gets plugged into mono input on the pedal

Ok that is your first problem right there. You are only getting a preamp signal to the pedal, you are not getting the entire amps tone/signal from the Fortin. Your power amps are only there to reamp the entire slaved amps signal and tone. Since there is no dedicated slave out on the Fortin step one you would need something like the Suhr Iso line out as I explained above.

It will work with using the loop send out but it is not the complete full spectrum signal it is only the preamp section. Chippy is using all EVH amps and they are designed to use the preamp only out from the Slaved EVH amp which is then getting amplified by the power section only of the slave amps. What he shows you in that video only applies to EVH amps so you would need two EVH amps to duplicate what he is doing. If I understand it correctly then master on the main amp head would then function also as the volume control on the two slave amp EVH heads, that's why your -power amp EVH head master doesn't work when plugging into loop return when using it as a power amp.

To set this up correctly this is what you need for the Fortin amp.

Guitar>Fortin amp/dry cabinet>Suhr Iso lineout(plugged into open speaker jack)(mono signal)>Boss SDE3000>250ms delayL>250ms delay R>to the inputs of a stereo power amp that has it's own volume controll or the loop returns of two separate amplifier heads(which have their tone controls bypassed and may or may not have their master volumes bypassed). The Boss SDE3000 only see one mono input signal alone which is then split into your two signals. That's it.

I don't know what the whole four cable method is that Rockinchippy is using but it seems to only apply when using two EVH amps heads as the power amps. I am trying to keep this a simple as possible to get your basic setup down and working. Will you have a signal using the Fortin loop send? Yes...... Is it the entire amps complete signal including the preamp and power amp signal of the Fortin?......NO. You must remember you are only using the power amps to reamp your entire signal from your Slaved Fortin not just the preamp signal. What I laid out is the most basic slaving setup for W/D/W to a dedicated stereo power amp or two separate amp heads with or without effects loops.

https://www.themusiczoo.com/blogs/news/how-to-set-up-a-wet-dry-wet-amplifier-rig