Expensive Instrument Cable Snake Oil

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bxlxaxkxe
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braintheory said:
You can’t compare something like medicine to something subjective like sound quality. You have all these on paper ideas about why it shouldn’t matter. If this is something you really want to figure out for yourself I’d say give Tim Schroeder a call. He’s a very nice guy that’ll be happy to discuss this with you in much more depth than I would. I bought my powerchords from him. None of which are the brands you showed later on. If you don’t hear the difference or don’t like them he’ll let you return them. Simple as that. Personally I think just hearing it for yourself and deciding is a much more productive and enjoyable way to go about this than trying to find theoretical/on paper ways to try to explain otherwise without in person experience trying it yourself. There’s no other valid substitute for that. End of story. If you still disagree based on that experience I can fully respect that, but would be very surprised. I won’t go any further and make this more pointless
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Placebo effect is a thing. It happens to percieved sound, as well as medication. If a power cord has twisted conductors and shileding, it will absoultely prevent that section of power cord from picking up noise. It will do nothing for noise already in the power from tens to hundreds of miles of plain old wire that brings the power to your house. It will do nothing to remove noise accumulated in the romex wiring of your house. And, I don't know if you have ever been inside a guitar amp, but the POWER IS NOT SHIELDED INSIDE THE AMP - right next to the circuits that can induce noise or oscillation.

A PERCEIVED difference is not the same thing as an actual, obective reality difference, and if you want to blow $350 on a power cord, more power to you. Most of us don't have unlimited resources, and that $350 for the vast majority of us would be better spent ANYWHERE ELSE on our hobby.

But go ahead, by 6 or 7 of those power cords, hook up your stuff. Replace all your 12AX7s with Telefunkens that were made in 1957 by vestal vigrins and blessed with holy water. Get your speakers reconed with diaphrams made with pulp including Gene Simmon's blood and pieces of the True Cross. Get a Native American shaman to "make medicine" in your rehearsal space to keep the windigos and the clam notes away. Do as you please.

But convincing someone else? That kinda requires objective, testable, measurable proof, which does not and cannot exist for speaker and power cords. So long as the connections are mechanically sound and the conductors are suffiently large for the length of the run, there is no difference for frequencies below 20K hertz. That's not just me saying that - that's professional audio engineers.
 
errrrrl said:
I can't comment on the other brands mentioned, but for analysis plus there was some science n stuff behind it lol... not gonna say I understand this to a T... but I heard a difference. Was it a huge difference? Not if your cranking it up and have ringing ears, not noticeable. For me though, doing everything via silent recording in headphones, yeah I could tell a difference for sure.

The link for their white paper n stuff -> https://analysis.plus/downloads/#:~:text=In this new section, you,cables perform and sound better.
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1. They are selling cables. They are going to puff up their merchandise they are trying to sell.
2. They emphasize skin effects in the conductor, which are a trivial consideration in audible frequencies. they don't even start to become measurable until about 10K hertz, and only start to become large above 20K hertz.
3. Their audio cables may indeed be very good at delivering a more unaltered signal to the speaker. Whether such fidelity is audible, or even matters given the nature of speakers is questionable. As Friedrich Nietzsche says, "a difference that makes no difference is no difference."
 
NowYou'rePlayingWithPower said:
Ferrite/rings in power cables is absolutely beneficial to noise reduction.
I've tested this over years with PSUs and even USB cables.
Increased stability in VRMs that led to higher stable overclocks.
Even among poor designs.
Could absolutely see a benefit to using it with tube amps.
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I agree. However, in a piece of audio gear with a correctly designed and functioning isolation transformer, it should be rare that ferrite suppressors are necessary.

Also ferrite slugs don't run $350.
 
GJgo said:
If you guys want to put this to bed send me your cables or whatever & I'll A/B reamp test them & post it up. Otherwise it's gonna be "team subjective" vs "team objective" for the next 10 pages.
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I don't think that would remotely put this to bed, as the literal whole point of these types of products is situational noise and interference reduction that may be completely irrelevant with your setup. Or it might be completely exaggerated with your situation and setup.

I don't care as much about the cabling and cords part of the debate.

what grinds my gears is the type of people who describe speakers as lines on graphs, as if the entire experience can be described that way, and the numbers on the graph are the be all end all. It irritates me to no end because they are missing the biggest and most important part of what makes the speaker sound a specific way - those same lines on a graph over time.

It's always a more complicated answer, and it's always an oversimplified "hyuk hyuk I solved this with my big brain 7th grade science because I'm not smart enough to see the whole picture"
 
DanTravis62 said:
I don't think that would remotely put this to bed, as the literal whole point of these types of products is situational noise and interference reduction that may be completely irrelevant with your setup. Or it might be completely exaggerated with your situation and setup.

I don't care as much about the cabling and cords part of the debate.

what grinds my gears is the type of people who describe speakers as lines on graphs, as if the entire experience can be described that way, and the numbers on the graph are the be all end all. It irritates me to no end because they are missing the biggest and most important part of what makes the speaker sound a specific way - those same lines on a graph over time.

It's always a more complicated answer, and it's always an oversimplified "hyuk hyuk I solved this with my big brain 7th grade science because I'm not smart enough to see the whole picture"
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Speaker reponse graphs are data, and ONE tool, for evaluating SPEAKERS. There are other factors, such as harmonics, impedence changes, speaker coupling if in a mutiple speaker cabinet, back of cone wave reflection emphasising or cutting certain frequencies, etc. However, NONE of those other factors change what the curve on the graph is telling you. They just add another influence. So for SPEAKERS, the actual thing that generates the sound, intalling them in YOUR cab, hooked to YOUR amp, with the amp EQ optomized for THAT DRIVER, is the final and best test. However, time and money (but I repeat myself, because time *IS* money) being limited, speaker response curves and other user's anecdotes in similar applications can steer you in the right direction, rather than buying (at $150 - $200 a pop) ALL POSSIBLE SPEAKERS for trial. Not a real option for most of us in the real world.

Now when it comes to speaker and power CABLES? A much simpler problem for physics and material science. And also one where Occam's Razor correctly guides us to the appropriate answer - the simple one.

Don't believe me? Look inside a Marshal or Mesa Boogie cab - and see what kind of wiring connects the speakers.

https://www.chicagomusicexchange.co...960a-4x12-guitar-speaker-cabinet-1978-1705641

https://ca.pinterest.com/pin/mesa-b...-g12-vintage-30-speakers--144467100516280385/

Oh, and as to my "7th grade science" brain? I have a 4 year STEM degree with a minor in mathmatics. 1 year of vocational electronics. I have hand-built a tube amplifier, including forming the chassis. I am a former (and hopefull soon once again) gigging musician, and currently a data center analyst for a hospital. In the course of my daily job, one of the things I deal with is power and power cabling. Systems generating literally millions of dollars in revenue and upon which patient's lives depend are racked and connected to power with .... the factory supplied power cable, or it not, one different only in the color of the outer insulation such that we can keep track of which independent power source each power supply (most devices have redundant power supplies) any particular power supply is cabled to.

You having noise issues? Especially at a gig where the stage area electrical was installed by the bar owner's drunken brother in law in exchange for free beer? A noise filtering power condition, installing ferrite slugs on your power cables, and TURNING OFF THE NEON BEER LIGHTS near the stage will get you a lot further down the road than "high end power cables". And if my suggested steps don't completely solve the problem, a noise gate, specifically a linked two channel noise gate using the four cable method on your guitar amp, will do a lot more than a high dollar power cable.
 
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Also, it is difficult to impossible to instantaneously swith the same piece of equipment form one power cord to another, so literally NO true A-B comparisons can actually be performed. Absent some purpose built electronically switched A-B power cable interface.
 
BlackOut8910 said:
However, in a piece of audio gear with a correctly designed and functioning isolation transformer, it should be rare that ferrite suppressors are necessary.
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Tell that to superflower. Buy one of their designs starting at around $60 and pull the cable from it.
It's not just about noise reduction as it is clean and stable modulation.
If I can achieve 3-5% more headroom on what are already the best designed vrms on the planet simply from swapping between power cables, than I would be positive that analog equipment would benefit. Likely, if anything it would be in a reduction of nuances that could be interpreted as better depending on the user.
 
BlackOut8910 said:
Also, it is difficult to impossible to instantaneously swith the same piece of equipment form one power cord to another, so literally NO true A-B comparisons can actually be performed. Absent some purpose built electronically switched A-B power cable interface.
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It can when you're using it for a different purpose.
 
BlackOut8910 said:
Also, it is difficult to impossible to instantaneously swith the same piece of equipment form one power cord to another, so literally NO true A-B comparisons can actually be performed. Absent some purpose built electronically switched A-B power cable interface.
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NowYou'rePlayingWithPower said:
It can when you're using it for a different purpose.
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I mean technically you can if you record the two...... but in any case as has been tested......



300$/2000$ power chords don't do anything and your better off with a Power Conditioner or a PSU to filter noise caused from groundloops and EMI for your set up or rack if you have pedals, synths, keyboards etc etc.
 
Pretty much a 300 dollar or 2000 dollar power cord isn't doing anything to improve tone, lower noise floor or anything it should be doing other than powering your amp and stuff.....


This is where a switching PSU or PSU with isolated power and filtering comes in. A lot of anything else like 300-2000 dollar power cords are irrelevant and redundant vs something that really helps in sound/noise and that is an isolated PSU and a power conditioner. Luke from MyVolts explains how ground loops are the cause of a majority of noise/sound issues and how a dedicated, filtered power source makes a difference.


Not just for guitar and pedals but yeah synth, keyboard and other gear too in general. A lot of issues people seek to alleviate no fancy power cord can solve essentially...... no matter how expensive it is...... PSU and Power Conditioner are the solution. These things are stupid powerful 100 watts to power anything in ones rig pretty much. Can output up to 45 watts..... no noise floor added too and filters noise/groundloops ^_^


 
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BlackOut8910 said:
Audience Studio One MP - $1577 -$2599. For one power cord. Can you honestly say you see $1500 worth of difference?

Audience AU24 SX speaker cable - 2 for just under $3000.

That's more than BOTH of my half stacks cost.
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Those are nowhere near what they cost when I bought them, but in either case I don’t care. Play what you like and judge gear on spec sheets and graphs rather than using your own 2 ears if that’s what floats your boat. Personally I find the latter a more rewarding way to go about gear

As with most items that cost a huge premium, you shouldn’t expect however many x dollars you paid more for it to be that many times a level of improvement, but you just hear it and decide if it’s worth it or not to one’s individual desires. I don’t look for the same things that many on this forum are
 
The~Kid said:
I mean technically you can if you record the two...... but in any case as has been tested......



300$/2000$ power chords don't do anything and your better off with a Power Conditioner or a PSU to filter noise caused from groundloops and EMI for your set up or rack if you have pedals, synths, keyboards etc etc.
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You seem to be under the assumption that I'm plugging directly into an outlet. Anyways, given your last half dozen posts on this thread, we're not on the same page, so wouldn't stress trying to convince me.
 
overwhelming-overwhelmed.webp
 
NowYou'rePlayingWithPower said:
You seem to be under the assumption that I'm plugging directly into an outlet. Anyways, given your last half dozen posts on this thread, we're not on the same page, so wouldn't stress trying to convince me.
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Right on I'm not trying to convince you as so much as just letting folks be aware who have such issues what the solutions are. In any case sometimes even with a solid PSU and Power Conditioner noise may still remain and well not saying what you do doesn't work for you but in general have found these solutions to work for me, tested, replicatable, consistent and it just works alleviating any noise/sound/groundloop issues IME.



For me these things just work, they are practical, useful and it makes everything easier. I just feel many have the same issues in that regard and I did too and well IMO it's just the best solution when dealing with added noise/groundloops and noise issues in general and what I recommend.
 
I think a player should have oxygen-free copper cabling throughout any good rig or they're just whistling dixie.
 
The~Kid said:
Right on I'm not trying to convince you as so much as just letting folks be aware who have such issues what the solutions are. In any case sometimes even with a solid PSU and Power Conditioner noise may still remain and well not saying what you do doesn't work for you but in general have found these solutions to work for me, tested, replicatable, consistent and it just works alleviating any noise/sound/groundloop issues IME.



For me these things just work, they are practical, useful and it makes everything easier. I just feel many have the same issues in that regard and I did too and well IMO it's just the best solution when dealing with added noise/groundloops and noise issues in general and what I recommend.
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Yeah, you've said that thirty times in this thread. :ROFLMAO:
Wasn't even referring to amps or the same kind of power supplies, but highly precision equipment where I noticed a difference.
To say there would be no correlation is simply just arguing to argue.
 
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