Favorite attenuator

[stephen sawall]

Interesting post Stephen - I've never used one but all I've ever heard from people for years is that the Hotplate is a resistive attenuator

Weird that misinformation like that would become so ubiquitous

The internet is filled with misinformation. I see misinformation dozens of times daily on gear forums and other places around the internet about gear. These misunderstandings are extremely common and repeated endlessly.
I don't even try to correct them other then when directly involved.
I simply don't have the time.

Everyone very much needs to question any information you get on the internet or any other media.

Subjective opinions about gear is a very different. I feel it's very healthy that we can get a variety of opinions from various individuals. We all have different experiences.

 

[stephen sawall]

The THD is analog, reactive load

If you're talking about the THD Hotplate it is a resistive load.

Suhr Reactive Load or just about any reactive load. I would not recommend any resistive type such as a Hot Plate.

"We keep getting asked if the Hot Plate attenuator is resistive or reactive.

There is a lot of misinformation floating out there, including a recent "article" on Reverb claiming that the THD Hot Plate is a resistive attenuator. I both phoned and sent emails to correct the writer of the article, but never got a call or email in return.

People seem to assume that reactive attenuators are something new, which they are not. We’ve been building them since 1994. Many assume that since the Hot Plate has been around for so long, it must be a resistive unit like the Scholz Power Soak and the Altair PW-5. (For the trivia minded, the PW stood for "power waster".)

The Hot Plate is fully reactive in three different “modes", as opposed to one mode like all the other attenuators claiming to be reactive. The bright, deep and light bulb switches let you select exactly how reactive it is, and in which frequency ranges and dynamic ranges the reactance is most prevalent, but no matter how you set it, it is always reactive in all attenuation modes and in the “Load” setting as well. It’s the only attenuator which does this.

Some attenuators like the Marshall Power Brake (no longer produced) use transformers instead of networks of resistors, capacitors and inductors, to do the dropping. The problem with this entire approach is that the only way that a transformer can reduce the power getting to the speaker is by creating an impedance mismatch, which is never good for the amp, nor does it ever sound or “feel” particularly good. With a Hot Plate, if you have an 8 ohm amp, an 8 ohm Hot Plate and an 8 ohm speaker, no matter how you set it, the amp is always “seeing” an 8 ohm load. It is the only attenuator that does this, which is why there are 5 versions. In each version, every single capacitor, resistor and inductor is optimized for that impedance.

Another aspect of this discussion that is worth mentioning is that the absolute safest load for any amplifier is one that is 100% resistive with no reactive element at all. The problem with a purely resistive load is that they don’t sound very good at all. Guitar players are used to the hearing the amp as it responds to the inductance of the speaker’s voice coils, the motion of the cones (causing a huge momentary change in the load), and often the effect of the compression of the air in the cabinet on the cone/voice coil motion, and thus on the load. So, more reactance is not necessarily a good thing, especially when it goes beyond mimicking the reactance of a speaker cabinet.

Over the past 26 years, we’ve sold more than 100,000 Hot Plates, making it the best-selling attenuator ever built. It’s also the only attenuator made that is recommended by other manufacturers. The Weber is recommended only by Weber. The Rivera is recommended only by Rivera. The THD Hot Plate is recommended my Marshall, Fender, HiWatt, Soldano, Bogner, Diezel, MESA/Boogie, and dozens of other amp companies. And, over 30 years, we’ve only ever had two people come forward, claiming that their amps were damaged by a Hot Plate. One was using a 4-ohm Hot Plate on a Marshall set to 16 ohms, which caused the output transformer to fail, just as it would have if he had run into a 4 ohm cabinet. The other had just had the output transformer in his Vox AC30 replaced when he started using a Hot Plate on his amp with the new transformer. He claimed that the Hot Plate had blown his new transformer. We paid to have the amp sent to us for investigation. It turned out that his "tech" had replaced his 30-watt AC30 output transformer with a 15-watt Fender Tweed Deluxe output transformer, which could not possibly take the output from a quad of EL84 tubes and was less than 1/4 the size of the original output transformer.

We hope this helps to dispel some of these myths."

THD / Andy Marshall Design

I understand what they’re saying, just feel that is loose use of the term “reactive”. But not knocking it, some folks love ‘em. I’ve had 4 or 5 over the years and they were not for me.

I didn't say anything. It's a quote from the owner of THD - Andy Marshall.
It's no more or less reactive than any other product made by anyone.

It does work better with some rigs than it does with others. Half my master volume amps I prefer just using the master. It's rig and application dependent.

Getting different opinions is a large part of why we all use these forums. Your personal experience is just as valid as mine. I am glad we can all share our subjective opinions and learn from each other.

Here's a example from my experience using two amps from the same manufacturer.

The Mesa Mark IV the master is excellent and I prefer the master over using a Hot Plate. It colors the sound in a way that doesn't work for me.

The Dual Rectifier Tremoverb like all Rectifier amps the master jumps and it gets loud in a hair adjustment. The amp needs to be up loud to get rid of the fizzy highs. It just doesn't sound good till the amp is fully opened up.

The Hot Plate with it's voicing switches works great with these amps in my experience.

All attenuation no matter how it is done colors the sound in some way. Not to mention how different speakers sound at different volumes.

 

[stratjacket]

The THD is analog, reactive load

If you're talking about the THD Hotplate it is a resistive load.

Suhr Reactive Load or just about any reactive load. I would not recommend any resistive type such as a Hot Plate.

"We keep getting asked if the Hot Plate attenuator is resistive or reactive.

There is a lot of misinformation floating out there, including a recent "article" on Reverb claiming that the THD Hot Plate is a resistive attenuator. I both phoned and sent emails to correct the writer of the article, but never got a call or email in return.

People seem to assume that reactive attenuators are something new, which they are not. We’ve been building them since 1994. Many assume that since the Hot Plate has been around for so long, it must be a resistive unit like the Scholz Power Soak and the Altair PW-5. (For the trivia minded, the PW stood for "power waster".)

The Hot Plate is fully reactive in three different “modes", as opposed to one mode like all the other attenuators claiming to be reactive. The bright, deep and light bulb switches let you select exactly how reactive it is, and in which frequency ranges and dynamic ranges the reactance is most prevalent, but no matter how you set it, it is always reactive in all attenuation modes and in the “Load” setting as well. It’s the only attenuator which does this.

Some attenuators like the Marshall Power Brake (no longer produced) use transformers instead of networks of resistors, capacitors and inductors, to do the dropping. The problem with this entire approach is that the only way that a transformer can reduce the power getting to the speaker is by creating an impedance mismatch, which is never good for the amp, nor does it ever sound or “feel” particularly good. With a Hot Plate, if you have an 8 ohm amp, an 8 ohm Hot Plate and an 8 ohm speaker, no matter how you set it, the amp is always “seeing” an 8 ohm load. It is the only attenuator that does this, which is why there are 5 versions. In each version, every single capacitor, resistor and inductor is optimized for that impedance.

Another aspect of this discussion that is worth mentioning is that the absolute safest load for any amplifier is one that is 100% resistive with no reactive element at all. The problem with a purely resistive load is that they don’t sound very good at all. Guitar players are used to the hearing the amp as it responds to the inductance of the speaker’s voice coils, the motion of the cones (causing a huge momentary change in the load), and often the effect of the compression of the air in the cabinet on the cone/voice coil motion, and thus on the load. So, more reactance is not necessarily a good thing, especially when it goes beyond mimicking the reactance of a speaker cabinet.

Over the past 26 years, we’ve sold more than 100,000 Hot Plates, making it the best-selling attenuator ever built. It’s also the only attenuator made that is recommended by other manufacturers. The Weber is recommended only by Weber. The Rivera is recommended only by Rivera. The THD Hot Plate is recommended my Marshall, Fender, HiWatt, Soldano, Bogner, Diezel, MESA/Boogie, and dozens of other amp companies. And, over 30 years, we’ve only ever had two people come forward, claiming that their amps were damaged by a Hot Plate. One was using a 4-ohm Hot Plate on a Marshall set to 16 ohms, which caused the output transformer to fail, just as it would have if he had run into a 4 ohm cabinet. The other had just had the output transformer in his Vox AC30 replaced when he started using a Hot Plate on his amp with the new transformer. He claimed that the Hot Plate had blown his new transformer. We paid to have the amp sent to us for investigation. It turned out that his "tech" had replaced his 30-watt AC30 output transformer with a 15-watt Fender Tweed Deluxe output transformer, which could not possibly take the output from a quad of EL84 tubes and was less than 1/4 the size of the original output transformer.

We hope this helps to dispel some of these myths."

THD / Andy Marshall Design

I understand what they’re saying, just feel that is loose use of the term “reactive”. But not knocking it, some folks love ‘em. I’ve had 4 or 5 over the years and they were not for me.

I didn't say anything. It's a quote from the owner of THD - Andy Marshall.
It's no more or less reactive than any other product made by anyone.

It does work better with some rigs than it does with others. Half my master volume amps I prefer just using the master. It's rig and application dependent.

Getting different opinions is a large part of why we all use these forums. Your personal experience is just as valid as mine. I am glad we can all share our subjective opinions and learn from each other.

Here's a example from my experience using two amps from the same manufacturer.

The Mesa Mark IV the master is excellent and I prefer the master over using a Hot Plate. It colors the sound in a way that doesn't work for me.

The Dual Rectifier Tremoverb like all Rectifier amps the master jumps and it gets loud in a hair adjustment. The amp needs to be up loud to get rid of the fizzy highs. It just doesn't sound good till the amp is fully opened up.

The Hot Plate with it's voicing switches works great with these amps in my experience.

All attenuation no matter how it is done colors the sound in some way. Not to mention how different speakers sound at different volumes.

Understand it was a THD quote, that was my “they’re saying” reference. All good man, obviously a lot of people like the Hot Plates.

 

[Bxlxaxkxe]

PS2 or the new 100.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

No attenuator is the best option... but if you have to, I quite liked the old school Hotplate for what it was. knock down -4, -8 still very good. After that yeah it changed the tone way more. I have the Torpedo Reload now and I think it is cool but I def. notice a loss of edge/sparkle going into it vs no attenuator. So, crank that fucker!

 

[Exo-metal]

It is the best method if you don't want a loop in your main amp.

 

[harddriver]

As long a you don't need to attenuate more than -8DB the THD is pretty transparent, anything more than that there will be percieved degradation in the tone, mostly highs. I also have a Rivera Rockcrusher and it's pretty transparent to -8DB and maybe -12DB but there the same tone degradation beyond -12DB especially in perceived highs and you're not driving the speaker excursion the same when at volume.

I think you will find the same no matter what attenuator you go with.

 

[dudu]

Can anyone who has used both the PS-2 and the PS-100 comment on the differences?

 

[155]

captor for me, dont need high dollar when that does it just fine

 

[Rick Lee]

I built a master volume box for $10 that works great in my 1987xl loop. Won't work without a loop, but it's good and cheap.

 

[skullfxr]

I built a master volume box for $10 that works great in my 1987xl loop. Won't work without a loop, but it's good and cheap.

I assume you are referring to a pot in a box?

 

[Rick Lee]

yes

 

[errrrrl]

Waza tube amp expander is great but comes with a shit ton of features you probably wouldn't want.

 

[panhead]

Allessandro att. 20 years going strong the best for not fuckn up tone

 

[mnemonic]

I have a THD Hotplate and I have plotted out the impedence curves myself, it’s mostly a resistive load.

The bright, deep, and bulb switches I guess are ‘reactive’ in the sense that they change the impedence curve from a flat line to a slightly curved line, but nothing like what an actual speaker in an enclosure is like.

How good it sounds will be a function of the sound you’re after and the amp you’re using. Amps with high levels of negative feedback in the power amp are less sensitive to impedence changes so you won’t hear as big a difference with a resistive attenuator. Amps with little or no negative feedback are very sensitive to the speaker load and a resistive attenuator will significantly change the sound.

When I ran my recto in vintage mode with the hotplate it sounded okay on lower attenuation levels (since more of the power is going to the speakers on lower attenuation levels and the speaker will provide a reactive load). But in modern mode where negative feedback is disconnected, it neutered the amp at any attenuation level.

 

[stephen sawall]

I get the feeling reading this thread many of you don't know the difference between a reactive load and a resistive load.

A resistive load the impedance never changes ever.

A reactive load the impedance changes.

There isn't anything in-between. It's one or the other.

 

[blackba]

I get the feeling reading this thread many of you don't know the difference between a reactive load and a resistive load.

A resistive load the impedance never changes ever.

A reactive load the impedance changes.

There isn't anything in-between. It's one or the other.

Thought I would add some slight clarifications.
A resistive load the impedance does not change with frequency

A reactive load the impedance does change with frequency.

For the reactive load, the most important question to ask is how well it mimics the impedance of an actual speaker. So while it does sound like the THD hotplate is a reactive load, the impedance curve does not appear to mimic an actual speaker that well. Whether this is acceptable is for everyone to decide on their own.

 

[thenine]

WAZA TAE

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Not sure what your price point is but the Scumback DBL works great. It's the upgraded version of the old Alex Attenuator but with higher temperature teflon wiring, 2 speaker output jacks and a line out.

Some of my clients say they switch the Level to -12 db, then set the middle knob to 0, and use just the line out. I've got them in stock, and I'm still able to ship stuff out since my shop is in back of the house. You know how to find me if you're interested.

http://www.scumbackspeakers.com/attenuator.html

 

[Giga.Blast]

I have a few of them and sold them since they were expensive and decided to try Bugera PS1 for 89 bucks. It has line out and works very good and is build very well.
Try it before dumping hundreds on an expensive unit like I did.

Good evening my fellow soaker friend calling here from Calexico.

The Bugera PS1 has been my little personal secret for a quite some time now. I will not go into what is very obvious about this little emulator nuclear brick wall. I use two PS1s inline, virtually 100% passive to two 4x12 Diezel v30/greenback hybrid I suppose cabs in stereo through a TC-Electronic and the feeling of that power "tamed" the Grand Canyon National Park really. When I ran into this little gem on "Full Compass" I was floored. I've needed this guy since 2003 when I realized I was going to use my Herbert rig for EVERY GIG and all my studio recording because it did EVERYTHING PERFECTLY - for me to be clear and my guitar playing. Either way, the PS1 handle's very nicely all 12 KT77s biased at 60mA ~150W like flying in a blue dream. Just remember, this little brick is deceiving. Even with the PS1 set to 100%, you're still hitting all your speaker drivers at a total net root-mean-square power at 50%. Very sincerely I'm just repeating what the little manual states that was in the box printed in a zillion different languages because in the end, it's plug & play and I just wanna rock without sounding like I'm testing out SCSI fiber-channel carbon-fiber bazookas in my little private studio.

For you IT people out there in the funny cloud. I liken the Bugera PS1 Power Soak to VMware vSphere Hypervisors in a warped but very cool sense.

If anyone wants to experiment with a virtually 100% passive attenuator that really does a fantastic job at maintaining the original powerful feeling and oomph and character of your rig(s). I suggest you give it a shot for under $120 bucks since what do you have to lose?

P.S. And Mr. P. Diezel. As you may not be aloof, are Bugera PS1 in your tool-box by any chance?
---
EDIT: For the Michael Soldano folks (I had a PV 5150 II a few years ago - fantastic amp). It appears that Michael may have been the original audio electrical engineer that created the "Jet City Amplification Jettenuator Amp Power Attenuator" that in turn became the PS1. The PS1 looks like a Century Gothic waxed-up replica of it. It shows the designation as SOLDANO creating the blueprint for this unit. And, unless there's another Michael Soldano existing as a doppelganger, I suppose you may decide for yourself.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifi ... attenuator