Fender LSR Roller Nut

[Len Rabinowitz]

I actually had the LSR nut on my Strat plus converted BACK to a regular nut.

They luthier had to fill in the gap with a block or rosewood, and then route out the nut slot again. For me, not being a huge trem user, doing that, and adding string trees, made the tone alot better.

How much whammying are you doing? Divebombs? Just a little bit of wiggle?

I use it a lot. Some dive bombing, but also wiggles and up-pulls. (Climb-bombing?)

The luthier that would do it likes it a lot, but did warn me that it is basically undoable because of cutting into the neck to install it.

Seems that it is kind of a mised review here. Maybe I will go play one that has it.

The issue is that it slips out of tune- usually flat but sometimes sharp. I do lock my strings down by the way I wrap them. The luthier complimented me on my string wrapping and said that because of that I didn't need locking tuners but now I am wondering.

 

[Len Rabinowitz]

How much whammying are you doing? Divebombs? Just a little bit of wiggle?

I'm curious about that too;
I played a guy's Am Strat yesterday at a jam (recent one, couple of years old, 2-point trem set floating, locking tuners, but no roller nut), and it didn't stay in tune at all as soon as I used the trem (ie couple dive bombs, shaking notes ala Blackmore, nothing too outrageous actually, considering my own Strat has an OFR). Really disappointing actually. Was it due to bad setup or user error (with locking tuners perhaps), or is just the Fender 2-point trem not staying in tune ?

Probably binding at the nut. It is common on Fenders. Needs some graphite or lubricant at the nut most likely.

Mine doesn't go out that bad. Of course, it is a custom shop model- That might have something to do with it. I do use graphite and ocassionally clean the nut with dental floss. Still, it slips a little about 50% of the time.

 

[Len Rabinowitz]

For me...the two things on a tremolo setup you need at least for me, is a Wilkinson tremelo and some sort of locking tuners (sperzel or schaller). The biggest improvement for me was starting to use either sperzel or schaller tuners. I used to do the "locking wrap" on tuning pegs, but it would still slip and go out of tune. Once I started using sperzels or schallers...it one made changing strings WAY faster / easier, but I never got "string slippage" at the tuner any more. [/quote]

Sounds like you think I might need to put on locking tuners as well. The luthier didn't think so, but maybe you are right- maybe it still slips even when properly strung up. That would explain a few things.

Are the Fender locking tuners Sperzel or Schaller? I want to try to keep it to Fender parts if I can.

Thanks!

 

[jlbaxe]

STRETCH the strings when you put them on. That helps alot. I put the string between the thumb and forefinger starting at the trem and do a pull rotating circle all the way up the neck. My strats stay in tune and they are stock.

 

[Len Rabinowitz]

I generally do stretch them- Still, maybe I didn't do that enough this time. That does seem a little inconsistent, though. The LSR/Locking tuners might solidify it.

 

[RockStarNick]

TO be honest, regular strat trems aren't really meant to divebomb that well.

Also, with my LSR, if I did do a divebomb, even of the light variety, it the strings would go flat. Then, if I would yank the bar UP to raise the strings above standard pitch, it would knock them closer back in tune, but sometimes a little sharp.

The LSR really isn't a foolproof thing. Don't think that it can replace a FLoyd Locking Nut for insane whammy action. I feel like it's a lot of irreversible work to be done on a guitar, and you really might not get the results that you're looking for.

I'd try locking tuners and a really professionally, smooth cut nut before I'd do the LSR. The tuners are reversible.

 

[aeroic]

TO be honest, regular strat trems aren't really meant to divebomb that well.

Also, with my LSR, if I did do a divebomb, even of the light variety, it the strings would go flat. Then, if I would yank the bar UP to raise the strings above standard pitch, it would knock them closer back in tune, but sometimes a little sharp.

The LSR really isn't a foolproof thing. Don't think that it can replace a FLoyd Locking Nut for insane whammy action. I feel like it's a lot of irreversible work to be done on a guitar, and you really might not get the results that you're looking for.

I'd try locking tuners and a really professionally, smooth cut nut before I'd do the LSR. The tuners are reversible.

Well nick...I have both (professionally cut) Graphite and LSR nuts...with locking tuners and every guitar I have is a Wilkinson bridge. The LSR is the best for "dive bombing" etc etc. But...it's not just the LSR. It's the combination of sperzel locking tuners, the wilkinson bridge, and the LSR that does it for me. Same bridge, same tuners, but a graphite nut...I get a bit less stability if I divebomb.

And...LSRs aren't totally irreversible. If you have a good luthier, he could fill it in w/ wood, and recut the nut slot no problem. I've had it done before for other reasons, and you could barely tell a difference.

But I do agree...Floyds are the best for "insane whammy action." I'm just being devils advocate with the LSR

Eric

 

[Zaphod B]

I have a '91 Strat Plus with a LSR nut, locking tuners, and a factory-installed Hipshot Tremsetter, and the tuning is pretty stable until I really start wailing away at the whammy bar.

Regarding the tone of the nut, this may be stating the obvious but you'll only hear it on open notes. That said, I've never had any issue with the guitar's tone - it's very nice.

Personally, I would think of a LSR retrofit as a permanent one. You can't just swap a normal nut back in.

If I were into deep dive bombing I would retrofit a FR with locking nut. Otherwise, as aeroic said, you might do just as well with locking tuners and a well-cut nut. You might want to consider a Tremsetter as well, as they do bring the vibrato back to a center position and help with the overall stability (although the Tremsetter isn't a cure-all, either).

 

[Len Rabinowitz]

I'm kind of backing off this a bit, with the pedalboard a mess on the bed right now... still, keep the ideas coming...

I am leaning towards the idea of locking tuners and staying with the current nut. I agree that the LSR nut is basically undoable although I know it really isn't.

I want to see what happens next time I change my strings and make sure to do it REALLY correctly. If I still get the problem then I have to do something I think.

I notice that it is mostly the A, D, and G strings slipping, so maybe that speaks more to how they are strung then the nut although maybe not...

 

[RockStarNick]

I still say that the Custom Classic V strat is an incredible insrument. I'd hate to see you do some mods to it that would really decrease it's value.

I bet it wouldn't be THAT much cheaper to just get a really nice V shaped Warmoth neck with an LSR in it. And try that out. So that if you ever want your guitar stock, you can do it with ease, yourself, just screwing it back in.

 

[aeroic]

I still say that the Custom Classic V strat is an incredible insrument. I'd hate to see you do some mods to it that would really decrease it's value.

I bet it wouldn't be THAT much cheaper to just get a really nice V shaped Warmoth neck with an LSR in it. And try that out. So that if you ever want your guitar stock, you can do it with ease, yourself, just screwing it back in.

I agree here. I did the same thing w/ the neck I have on my Fender Strat....body was refinished...and I just didn't like the stock neck that came w/ it enough to want to keep it on there. I got a Warmoth neck w/ a LSR nut slot..had my luthier do all the setup on it..and it plays like a dream! I like it way more than the stock Fender neck. It does have the Wizard profile...and I'm a sucker for a compound radius for sure!

 

[ratter]

I'd pass on the LSR. A properly cut bone/tusq/graphite/whatever nut won't cause any tuning issues. Think of all the high end guitars with vintage-style trems that just have regular nuts - Suhr, Anderson, pretty much everybody...

The biggest tell-tale sign that the nut isn't properly cut is if you hear 'pinging sounds' as you tune up. You should also be able to lift the strings up out of their nut slots without any resistance. But they also shouldn't be so large as to have lots of 'slop'...

Make sure the nut is slotted right and then if you still have issues move on down the checklist from there - bridge, tuners, etc. I'm a big fan of locking tuners because of the fast re-stringing moreso than their performance.

Fast-forward to about 2:15 to see how well a properly setup vintage trem can perform...if you need more than that - elephant noises and crazy Gillis stuff, go for the Floyd.

 

[Len Rabinowitz]

Yeah, I am aware of all of this too... The locking tuners might be undoable if I get ones that don't require new holes drilled which might be possible.

I am going to go about this very carefully, starting with next time I change the strings...

 

[NicD]

Carl Verheyen...man, what an insane player...great touch, great tone, great note choice...just love his playing...
His tone on this vid is just out of this world:

I find his demo on what a vintage trem can do quite impressive to be honest...I always thought it took a Floyd to do that kind of stuff and stay in tune. Looks like I was wrong (though watching Jeff Beck play showed that pretty clearly too).

As a follow-up to my first post, from doing some research, I realized the guy whose Strat I played the other day was wrapping his strings on the tuner post just like you would do with regular, vintage tuners. Ie, not locking the string at all. Which explains why it didn't hold tuning that well.

 

[Len Rabinowitz]

Jeff Beck is the God of the whammy, no doubt- And he uses the LSR nut!

 

[Len Rabinowitz]

Well, here's where it stands for the moment:

Put new strings on, making sure to wind them correctly and lock them down.

Stretch the hell out of the strings

Cleaned and graphited my nut

Tightened up the tuning pegs- they were a little loose.

So far so so good- I think you guys that are saying "Don't change the nut if you don't have to. Try some less invasive things first" won the day for now.

I like the ideas of locking tuners that don't need holes drilled with the current nut, and maybe even just a different neck. Shows a kind of "different thinking" that I like.

For now, I am going to see what the above does, and thanks!

 

[felineguitars]

A bit of info for players that either have an LSR fitted but are thinking of removing it or ones who are having one fitted but are worried if they ever chose to remove it.

EARVANA do a replacement nut that fits exactly in the LSR slot and doesnt require any filling in of the wood , but also it CORRECTS YOUR INTONATION issues.
Looks like this - also comes in black (made from the same stuff that Graph Tech's TUSQ nuts are made from)

Seriously it's worth changing to the EARVANA anyway to get a massive improvement in "in tune-ness" when playing chords etc

I absolutely love the Earvana and offer it on all my custom built guitars that don't have a Floyd Rose.
It has a great effect on the tone as well as soon as all your strings are more in tune with each other

Have a look : http://www.earvana.com/