H
hstlaurent
Member
The shipping address matched Metropoulos’s.
The shipping address matched Metropoulos’s.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
There's a very long thread about it. How have y'all missed it?
I purchased a Meshuggah—advertised as being a custom design by Mike Fortin with four gain stages. The amp arrived from Michigan... right near Metro, who is known for being contracted to build other companies' amps. The sender's address was the same as on parts shipments I've received from Metro in the past.
The amp didn't work properly. Issues with the EQ and sound cutting out. A tube began smoking and it red plated. I contacted Fortin about it. After a bit of a back and forth where Fortin did the same thing as in the video about the Sigil (claiming nothing was wrong), he agreed to take it back for repair. Before shipping the amp back, I popped it out of the headshell and had a look at the circuit for myself.
Turns out... it's a JCM800 with a 40-year-old Jose mod (zener diodes/transistors). In fact... it's the EXACT SAME CIRCUIT that I had already built for myself about four times a few years before Fortin started selling these amps. And the thread about that circuit, with posts from the community discussing its topology, is on the Metro forum (and Amp Garage and SLO Clone and a few others) from years prior (started by me). And Larry even dropped in to offer some of his suggestions in related threads.
And so I discovered the amp was not really a "custom" design. And it also didn't have four gain stages.
JCM800 with dual gains and a Jose master volume. Hardwired zeners and push/pull for the transistors for more distortion. 330K plate load on V1a, 4700pF bright cap, 68k/68k divider to keep things tight and dump some signal. 0.22uF0.022uF/ couplers, everything else is pretty much a stock JCM800. Easy. Simple. Cheap. Been done a million times before for 40 years.
Instead of fixing the amp, Fortin insisted on refunding me. Sent me a photo of one of the tubes that was clearly burned but told me it was fine and the amp was perfect lol. So yeah... instead of shipping the amp back to me, he refunded me, which I accepted.
I then posted photos and the schematic for the amp to SLO Clone Forum for educational/DIY purposes. People discussed the amp in detail there. Meanwhile, another customer had a problem with his and reached out to me because he was pissed that his $3K JCM800 clone shipped from Metro. I know Metro's work and I instantly recognized my Meshuggah as being built by them. I could just tell from the wiring/soldering/etc. And the address on the box. No big deal really... but hiding that fact is a lie of omission.
A thread about it popped up here. Fortin Army goons defended Fortin. Magically, the amp's description on Fortin's website was changed to fix the 4 gain stage claim, etc.
Anyway, the Meshuggah is a JCM800 clone with a 40-year-old mod that thousands of other DIYers have already built for themselves and shared the circuit on a bunch of forums years before Fortin started selling it as his own custom design. I got no problem with that really, except for how it was marketed. If he had said something like hey it's an 800 clone, outsourced to Metro, with a Jose mod... fine. But that was all hidden behind the marketing.
Meanwhile, Ceriatone hacks into the SLO Clone forum and takes the schematic and starts selling their own Meshuggah clone (Gargoyle).
I purchased a Meshuggah—advertised as being a custom design by Mike Fortin with four gain stages. The amp arrived from Michigan... right near Metro, who is known for being contracted to build other companies' amps. The sender's address was the same as on parts shipments I've received from Metro in the past.
The amp didn't work properly. Issues with the EQ and sound cutting out. A tube began smoking and it red plated. I contacted Fortin about it. After a bit of a back and forth where Fortin did the same thing as in the video about the Sigil (claiming nothing was wrong), he agreed to take it back for repair. Before shipping the amp back, I popped it out of the headshell and had a look at the circuit for myself.
Turns out... it's a JCM800 with a 40-year-old Jose mod (zener diodes/transistors). In fact... it's the EXACT SAME CIRCUIT that I had already built for myself about four times a few years before Fortin started selling these amps. And the thread about that circuit, with posts from the community discussing its topology, is on the Metro forum (and Amp Garage and SLO Clone and a few others) from years prior (started by me). And Larry even dropped in to offer some of his suggestions in related threads.
And so I discovered the amp was not really a "custom" design. And it also didn't have four gain stages.
JCM800 with dual gains and a Jose master volume. Hardwired zeners and push/pull for the transistors for more distortion. 330K plate load on V1a, 4700pF bright cap, 68k/68k divider to keep things tight and dump some signal. 0.22uF0.022uF/ couplers, everything else is pretty much a stock JCM800. Easy. Simple. Cheap. Been done a million times before for 40 years.
Instead of fixing the amp, Fortin insisted on refunding me. Sent me a photo of one of the tubes that was clearly burned but told me it was fine and the amp was perfect lol. So yeah... instead of shipping the amp back to me, he refunded me, which I accepted.
I then posted photos and the schematic for the amp to SLO Clone Forum for educational/DIY purposes. People discussed the amp in detail there. Meanwhile, another customer had a problem with his and reached out to me because he was pissed that his $3K JCM800 clone shipped from Metro. I know Metro's work and I instantly recognized my Meshuggah as being built by them. I could just tell from the wiring/soldering/etc. And the address on the box. No big deal really... but hiding that fact is a lie of omission.
A thread about it popped up here. Fortin Army goons defended Fortin. Magically, the amp's description on Fortin's website was changed to fix the 4 gain stage claim, etc.
Anyway, the Meshuggah is a JCM800 clone with a 40-year-old mod that thousands of other DIYers have already built for themselves and shared the circuit on a bunch of forums years before Fortin started selling it as his own custom design. I got no problem with that really, except for how it was marketed. If he had said something like hey it's an 800 clone, outsourced to Metro, with a Jose mod... fine. But that was all hidden behind the marketing.
Meanwhile, Ceriatone hacks into the SLO Clone forum and takes the schematic and starts selling their own Meshuggah clone (Gargoyle).
FourT6and2
Well-known member
novosibir
Well-known member
We've all been in the church at that time, I swear
Haha that's interesting and funny as well. I really can't remember, that I wrote something in a Meshuggah thread at any time in the past, but I'll search it over at Metro.
Anyway it's again & again astonishlingly for me, after almost 5k posts only on the Metroamp forums, when I do a google for a special theme and read a post, and suddenly I read 'written by novosibir'
technomancer
Well-known member
Nah, there's a guy that signed up and is just sending Nik schematics from the forum and paying him to build them for them and Nik then adds products. That's where his Friedman and Cameron clones came from too.
FourT6and2
Well-known member
Haha that's interesting and funny as well. I really can't remember, that I wrote something in a Meshuggah thread at any time in the past, but I'll search it over at Metro.
Anyway it's again & again astonishlingly for me, after almost 5k posts only on the Metroamp forums, when I do a google for a special theme and read a post, and suddenly I read 'written by novosibir'
It wasn't in a Meshuggah thread, this was before Fortin started selling the Meshuggah. You've offered help/tips in many DIY threads over the years. You even sold me some parts (ERO caps). Thanks!
FourT6and2
Well-known member
Ah yeah I figured it was something like that. I didn't mean he literally hacked the forum. But yeah, someone is feeding him info.
technomancer
Well-known member
Yeah was a gold mine for Nik, I think he's gotten four or five new models out of it
novosibir
Well-known member
And did he donate some bucks to this forum?Yeah was a gold mine for Nik, I think he's gotten four or five new models out of it
Afaik Nik already has published my Lar-Mar PPIMV in his own forum or on his web page...
... but I didn't get an email from him, asking for permission
And I'd be curious, who all have implemented my Parallel FX loop into her designs w/o mentioning my name at any place on their web sites.
The FX loop scheme, which I've offered exclusively to all Metroamp forum members and altogether have sent it over the years to almost 300 members
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technomancer
Well-known member
And did he donate some bucks to this forum?
Afaik Nik already has published my Lar-Mar PPIMV in his own forum or on his web page...
... but I didn't get an email from him, asking for permission
I doubt he even knew where the schematics came from. Somebody grabbed them and then gave them to him to build the amps.
Monkey Man
Super Moderator
That's how the thread was revived - Larry simply asked if there were any updates on the EP.
I haven't heard anything myself...
You didn't need to delete your post brother. My comment was for comedic value only... for the sake of the thread.
DanTravis62
Well-known member
At this point I dont think there is a single product fortin sells that has a single original, designed-in-house circuit.
headlessdeadguy
Well-known member
novosibir
Well-known member
Interesting post, very constructive
Keep care on you, that you don't suddenly die by boredom!
We'd miss you
japetus
Moderator
novosibir
Well-known member
There's definitely none - saying this, because I know some more about his amp models and not only about the Natas & the 'Fortin designed
' Randall Satan. MF's brain isn't designed for creativity, he only can copy & paste and sometimes cooking some mixes out of 2 or 3 different designs of others 
Or the same, just with other words: Why should a professional thief go to work, to earn his money by himself?
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novosibir
Well-known member
The truth probably is: On hold until the container ships can leave chinese ports again
FourT6and2
Well-known member
What about the Bones? I had one for a short time. It wasn't my thing sound-wise, but it was built really well. Don't know anything about the circuit though. This was my only prior experience with Fortin before I bought the Meshuggah. I thought I was going to get an amp built like this, not a Metro kit. And the Fortin Cali is built better than the Meshuggah, but it's still not like this:There's definitely none - saying this, because I know some more about his amp models and not only about the Natas & the 'Fortin designed
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novosibir
Well-known member
Just checked my infos about Fortin - the Bones is the only one of the Canadian made (!) Fortin amps, where I don't have any info except sound files
panhead
Well-known member
Good to see you kicking Larry