Friedman - Experiences with: PT-20, DS Mini, Runt 50?

[napalmdeath]

I've been really into these amps, none local! The PT-20 sounds fantastic, (a little more compressed than the other two) but I've really gravitated towards the Dirty Shirley Mini, (sounds "fatter", more JCM), then there's the Runt 50, (I dig EL34's vs. EL84's, for obvious reasons, far less samples available).

Which amp:

Has most/tightest low end?
Has most usable/clarity of gain?
Has most plexi/high gain voiced tone, yet most aggressive??

I'm mostly into Aldrich-type tones, Gary Moore blues tones, VH, 80's metal/thrash, (Ala, Anthrax, Testament, Priest), you get the point. As "brutal" as I get, is drop-D tunings, and I normally run gain lower anyway, and boost for heavier stuff.

I'm looking for something under $1500. I can still get a Runt 50 under that.

 

[marshall2553]

I have the PT and Dirty Shirley Mini, I haven't played the Runt. It sounds like you'd be happier with the PT if you're looking for tighter, aggressive high gain tones. The Shirley has tons of low end but it's kind of loose and gets boomy quick. I usually keep the bass around 9 o'clock. The lows on the PT stay tight. They have about the same amount of gain but the PT is definitely voiced more aggressively while the Shirley is better at classic JTM and Plexi tones. The Shirley would probably tighten up with a boost though.

If you get a PT I'd highly recommend the Wildwood edition with the Sat and Fat switches or getting Dave to install them in a regular PT. I'd look for one of the newer ones with the 3 position gain structure switch too. With those mods it's a pretty versatile little amp.

 

[marshall2553]

If you'll be gigging this amp though I'd have to say find a Runt 50 to try. As good as the PT and DSM are I'd take two channels and EL34s over them easily if the tone is in the same ballpark.

 

[155]

the pt-20 is the best amp ive ever played and owned and ive been through a ton, the feel of that amp is just right for nearly anything except fender cleans, depends on what kind of volume you need though , it gets super loud for 20 watts obviously 50 watt will go even more if you need it...

 

[napalmdeath]

I have the PT and Dirty Shirley Mini, I haven't played the Runt. It sounds like you'd be happier with the PT if you're looking for tighter, aggressive high gain tones. The Shirley has tons of low end but it's kind of loose and gets boomy quick. I usually keep the bass around 9 o'clock. The lows on the PT stay tight. They have about the same amount of gain but the PT is definitely voiced more aggressively while the Shirley is better at classic JTM and Plexi tones. The Shirley would probably tighten up with a boost though.

So, is the PT more VH, and DS more AC/DC??

Also, I'll be using a 4x12!

 

[155]

Yes probably like that but the pt can do ac/dc too, the ds dosent have as much gain though, with the pt 3-way switch it does all levels of gain..

 

[marshall2553]

I have the PT and Dirty Shirley Mini, I haven't played the Runt. It sounds like you'd be happier with the PT if you're looking for tighter, aggressive high gain tones. The Shirley has tons of low end but it's kind of loose and gets boomy quick. I usually keep the bass around 9 o'clock. The lows on the PT stay tight. They have about the same amount of gain but the PT is definitely voiced more aggressively while the Shirley is better at classic JTM and Plexi tones. The Shirley would probably tighten up with a boost though.

So, is the PT more VH, and DS more AC/DC??

Also, I'll be using a 4x12!

As far as voicing goes, that kind of sums it up. The DS is fat and creamy, the PT is tighter and meaner. The DS can definitely do VH and has way more than AC/DC levels of gain on tap though. To me the DS excels at 60s/70s stuff but can do heavier stuff. The PT excels at 80s and beyond but does a pretty good at lower gain too. The cleans on the DS are better and it works well when you set the amp for crunch, roll your volume back for clean and hit a boost for leads.

I haven't played out in a long time but I think you'd be better off with the 50W Runt if you're gigging. These little amps get pretty loud but I don't know if they could keep up with loud bass and drums.

 

[napalmdeath]

I have the PT and Dirty Shirley Mini, I haven't played the Runt. It sounds like you'd be happier with the PT if you're looking for tighter, aggressive high gain tones. The Shirley has tons of low end but it's kind of loose and gets boomy quick. I usually keep the bass around 9 o'clock. The lows on the PT stay tight. They have about the same amount of gain but the PT is definitely voiced more aggressively while the Shirley is better at classic JTM and Plexi tones. The Shirley would probably tighten up with a boost though.

So, is the PT more VH, and DS more AC/DC??

Also, I'll be using a 4x12!

As far as voicing goes, that kind of sums it up. The DS is fat and creamy, the PT is tighter and meaner. The DS can definitely do VH and has way more than AC/DC levels of gain on tap though. To me the DS excels at 60s/70s stuff but can do heavier stuff. The PT excels at 80s and beyond but does a pretty good at lower gain too. The cleans on the DS are better and it works well when you set the amp for crunch, roll your volume back for clean and hit a boost for leads.

I haven't played out in a long time but I think you'd be better off with the 50W Runt if you're gigging. These little amps get pretty loud but I don't know if they could keep up with loud bass and drums.

I don't play out. I guess the question now, is, would the Runt be overkill, or is its volume taper friendly enough for lower volumes? I think I'm talking myself into a runt.

 

[marshall2553]

I have the PT and Dirty Shirley Mini, I haven't played the Runt. It sounds like you'd be happier with the PT if you're looking for tighter, aggressive high gain tones. The Shirley has tons of low end but it's kind of loose and gets boomy quick. I usually keep the bass around 9 o'clock. The lows on the PT stay tight. They have about the same amount of gain but the PT is definitely voiced more aggressively while the Shirley is better at classic JTM and Plexi tones. The Shirley would probably tighten up with a boost though.

So, is the PT more VH, and DS more AC/DC??

Also, I'll be using a 4x12!

As far as voicing goes, that kind of sums it up. The DS is fat and creamy, the PT is tighter and meaner. The DS can definitely do VH and has way more than AC/DC levels of gain on tap though. To me the DS excels at 60s/70s stuff but can do heavier stuff. The PT excels at 80s and beyond but does a pretty good at lower gain too. The cleans on the DS are better and it works well when you set the amp for crunch, roll your volume back for clean and hit a boost for leads.

I haven't played out in a long time but I think you'd be better off with the 50W Runt if you're gigging. These little amps get pretty loud but I don't know if they could keep up with loud bass and drums.

I don't play out. I guess the question now, is, would the Runt be overkill, or is its volume taper friendly enough for lower volumes? I think I'm talking myself into a runt.

I seem to remember some guys on TGP saying the taper on the Runt 50 wasn't the best for low volume stuff. Sounds strange to me because every Friedman I have played has had a great master.

 

[napalmdeath]

I seem to remember some guys on TGP saying the taper on the Runt 50 wasn't the best for low volume stuff. Sounds strange to me because every Friedman I have played has had a great master.

Lets hope not - I ordered the 50!

 

[scottosan]

I have the PT and Dirty Shirley Mini, I haven't played the Runt. It sounds like you'd be happier with the PT if you're looking for tighter, aggressive high gain tones. The Shirley has tons of low end but it's kind of loose and gets boomy quick. I usually keep the bass around 9 o'clock. The lows on the PT stay tight. They have about the same amount of gain but the PT is definitely voiced more aggressively while the Shirley is better at classic JTM and Plexi tones. The Shirley would probably tighten up with a boost though.

So, is the PT more VH, and DS more AC/DC??

Also, I'll be using a 4x12!

As far as voicing goes, that kind of sums it up. The DS is fat and creamy, the PT is tighter and meaner. The DS can definitely do VH and has way more than AC/DC levels of gain on tap though. To me the DS excels at 60s/70s stuff but can do heavier stuff. The PT excels at 80s and beyond but does a pretty good at lower gain too. The cleans on the DS are better and it works well when you set the amp for crunch, roll your volume back for clean and hit a boost for leads.

I haven't played out in a long time but I think you'd be better off with the 50W Runt if you're gigging. These little amps get pretty loud but I don't know if they could keep up with loud bass and drums.

I don't play out. I guess the question now, is, would the Runt be overkill, or is its volume taper friendly enough for lower volumes? I think I'm talking myself into a runt.

I seem to remember some guys on TGP saying the taper on the Runt 50 wasn't the best for low volume stuff. Sounds strange to me because every Friedman I have played has had a great master.

there is nothing odd about the Runts Master volume.

 

[jguitarslim]

Master on Runt works great, but when talking bout the clean channel is another story.
The R50 taper goes from no volume to very loud with turn of knob.
I had 20 & 50 fwiw.

 

[LP Freak]

I have the PT and Dirty Shirley Mini, I haven't played the Runt. It sounds like you'd be happier with the PT if you're looking for tighter, aggressive high gain tones. The Shirley has tons of low end but it's kind of loose and gets boomy quick. I usually keep the bass around 9 o'clock. The lows on the PT stay tight. They have about the same amount of gain but the PT is definitely voiced more aggressively while the Shirley is better at classic JTM and Plexi tones. The Shirley would probably tighten up with a boost though.

So, is the PT more VH, and DS more AC/DC??

Also, I'll be using a 4x12!

As far as voicing goes, that kind of sums it up. The DS is fat and creamy, the PT is tighter and meaner. The DS can definitely do VH and has way more than AC/DC levels of gain on tap though. To me the DS excels at 60s/70s stuff but can do heavier stuff. The PT excels at 80s and beyond but does a pretty good at lower gain too. The cleans on the DS are better and it works well when you set the amp for crunch, roll your volume back for clean and hit a boost for leads.

I haven't played out in a long time but I think you'd be better off with the 50W Runt if you're gigging. These little amps get pretty loud but I don't know if they could keep up with loud bass and drums.

I don't play out. I guess the question now, is, would the Runt be overkill, or is its volume taper friendly enough for lower volumes? I think I'm talking myself into a runt.

I seem to remember some guys on TGP saying the taper on the Runt 50 wasn't the best for low volume stuff. Sounds strange to me because every Friedman I have played has had a great master.

I read that same shit from over there and it's not true. It works perfectly fine at low volume. The taper may be a little less than other Friedmans but it's still very usable. It's not like other amps where it has that spot where it's on or off.

 

[Racerxrated]

I have the PT and Dirty Shirley Mini, I haven't played the Runt. It sounds like you'd be happier with the PT if you're looking for tighter, aggressive high gain tones. The Shirley has tons of low end but it's kind of loose and gets boomy quick. I usually keep the bass around 9 o'clock. The lows on the PT stay tight. They have about the same amount of gain but the PT is definitely voiced more aggressively while the Shirley is better at classic JTM and Plexi tones. The Shirley would probably tighten up with a boost though.

So, is the PT more VH, and DS more AC/DC??

Also, I'll be using a 4x12!

As far as voicing goes, that kind of sums it up. The DS is fat and creamy, the PT is tighter and meaner. The DS can definitely do VH and has way more than AC/DC levels of gain on tap though. To me the DS excels at 60s/70s stuff but can do heavier stuff. The PT excels at 80s and beyond but does a pretty good at lower gain too. The cleans on the DS are better and it works well when you set the amp for crunch, roll your volume back for clean and hit a boost for leads.

I haven't played out in a long time but I think you'd be better off with the 50W Runt if you're gigging. These little amps get pretty loud but I don't know if they could keep up with loud bass and drums.

I don't play out. I guess the question now, is, would the Runt be overkill, or is its volume taper friendly enough for lower volumes? I think I'm talking myself into a runt.

I seem to remember some guys on TGP saying the taper on the Runt 50 wasn't the best for low volume stuff. Sounds strange to me because every Friedman I have played has had a great master.

I read that same shit from over there and it's not true. It works perfectly fine at low volume. The taper may be a little less than other Friedmans but it's still very usable. It's not like other amps where it has that spot where it's on or off.

It has a nice taper to the MV. I played a brand new Runt 50 and a new BE100 at a GC last fall and both amps had really nice MVs. By contrast, they had an 87 2204 and it had NO taper whatsoever, as 800s can sometimes have. Great sounding 800 though.

 

[RockyStar]

Save up for a used small box.

 

[dfrattaroli]

Save up for a used small box.

That's still basically double the cost though. You can get a used PT for $1200 or so. Sure, no clean channel but the thing sounds amazing. Plus, the PT is more like a BE than it is an SB.

 

[SavageRiffer]

The Pink Taco is my favorite of the three. I like the Dirty Shirley mini better than the Dirty Shirley 40w. I was infatuated with the Runt 50 for a while, but after all, I like the Runt 20 better than the Runt 50. Don't worry about tubes when it comes to Friedman amps because I've never heard EL84 amps sound so goo and with big, tight low end the way they do.

 

[napalmdeath]

Save up for a used small box.

That's still basically double the cost though. You can get a used PT for $1200 or so. Sure, no clean channel but the thing sounds amazing. Plus, the PT is more like a BE than it is an SB.

Yeah, roughly another $7- $800, used. Plus, most people are asking ridiculous prices for used gear, across the board. Yeah, there's a deal here and there, but alot of people are delusional.

I got a deal on a new Runt 50 with a coupon code. Paid less than what people are asking for used.

 

[sahlomonic]

I have the PT and Dirty Shirley Mini, I haven't played the Runt. It sounds like you'd be happier with the PT if you're looking for tighter, aggressive high gain tones. The Shirley has tons of low end but it's kind of loose and gets boomy quick. I usually keep the bass around 9 o'clock. The lows on the PT stay tight. They have about the same amount of gain but the PT is definitely voiced more aggressively while the Shirley is better at classic JTM and Plexi tones. The Shirley would probably tighten up with a boost though.

So, is the PT more VH, and DS more AC/DC??

Also, I'll be using a 4x12!

As far as voicing goes, that kind of sums it up. The DS is fat and creamy, the PT is tighter and meaner. The DS can definitely do VH and has way more than AC/DC levels of gain on tap though. To me the DS excels at 60s/70s stuff but can do heavier stuff. The PT excels at 80s and beyond but does a pretty good at lower gain too. The cleans on the DS are better and it works well when you set the amp for crunch, roll your volume back for clean and hit a boost for leads.

I haven't played out in a long time but I think you'd be better off with the 50W Runt if you're gigging. These little amps get pretty loud but I don't know if they could keep up with loud bass and drums.

I don't play out. I guess the question now, is, would the Runt be overkill, or is its volume taper friendly enough for lower volumes? I think I'm talking myself into a runt.

I seem to remember some guys on TGP saying the taper on the Runt 50 wasn't the best for low volume stuff. Sounds strange to me because every Friedman I have played has had a great master.

I remember the volume taper being amazing on my Runt 50. I regret selling it, but it was a great amp. Just too similar to another Friedman modded amp I already owned (not like that's a bad thing!).

 

[napalmdeath]

I have the PT and Dirty Shirley Mini, I haven't played the Runt. It sounds like you'd be happier with the PT if you're looking for tighter, aggressive high gain tones. The Shirley has tons of low end but it's kind of loose and gets boomy quick. I usually keep the bass around 9 o'clock. The lows on the PT stay tight. They have about the same amount of gain but the PT is definitely voiced more aggressively while the Shirley is better at classic JTM and Plexi tones. The Shirley would probably tighten up with a boost though.

So, is the PT more VH, and DS more AC/DC??

Also, I'll be using a 4x12!

As far as voicing goes, that kind of sums it up. The DS is fat and creamy, the PT is tighter and meaner. The DS can definitely do VH and has way more than AC/DC levels of gain on tap though. To me the DS excels at 60s/70s stuff but can do heavier stuff. The PT excels at 80s and beyond but does a pretty good at lower gain too. The cleans on the DS are better and it works well when you set the amp for crunch, roll your volume back for clean and hit a boost for leads.

I haven't played out in a long time but I think you'd be better off with the 50W Runt if you're gigging. These little amps get pretty loud but I don't know if they could keep up with loud bass and drums.

I don't play out. I guess the question now, is, would the Runt be overkill, or is its volume taper friendly enough for lower volumes? I think I'm talking myself into a runt.

I seem to remember some guys on TGP saying the taper on the Runt 50 wasn't the best for low volume stuff. Sounds strange to me because every Friedman I have played has had a great master.

I remember the volume taper being amazing on my Runt 50. I regret selling it, but it was a great amp. Just too similar to another Friedman modded amp I already owned (not like that's a bad thing!).

Did you do any tube rolling? Were they all ARS labeled??

I plan to put a new pair of KT77's in it, and i have some NOS Mullards, Sylvanias, and RI Tungsols, JJ's, you name it. I've got a Pro one so ill get a definitive plate voltage reading, and see where its at from the factory first.

I have a pair of JJ 6CA7's too!!