Front VS Rear loaded cabs actual test

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bram576
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I tested my VH4 extensively with a a Mesa OS rear-loaded and a Diezel FL V30 cab. There were qualities that really enjoyed about both, but ended up preferring the fullness and depth of the Mesa cabinet. They both sounded great, however...Really just a matter of taste and context.
 
One of the cabs You can try it is Engl. Frontloaded with removable back. We have one in the rehearsal room so I did it. The same cab, the same spakers. The differences are not subtle at all, completely different bass and highs projection. FL has tighter lows and sharper, harsher highs and overall more clarity but also more directional. RL sound bigger but also little boomier, highs are not as present and they are 'woody/ pleasant'. Rear loading change also internal dimensions si it should be factor too. Didn't test it under a mic tho.
 
I don’t like that this guy, who records music for a living, is using an IR for this test. I declare all results invalid.

I’ve never made an IR myself to compare to my mic’d cabs. In fact I don’t record any music at all I just criticize people who do. Quite frankly I don’t really understand how any of this works.
 
Cabs do sound very different one from another, even when comparing same brand and model.
So, unless you do a FL/RL comparison using the same cabinet and speakers, you're not hearing the FL/RL difference, but the cab to cab + speaker to speaker differences.
 
SBlue said:
Cabs do sound very different one from another, even when comparing same brand and model.
So, unless you do a FL/RL comparison using the same cabinet and speakers, you're not hearing the FL/RL difference, but the cab to cab + speaker to speaker differences.
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He did use the same exact speakers. Even explained how different each speaker even with the same model and close serials can be wildly different. Total lottery there.
 
Bxlxaxkxe said:
I don’t like that this guy, who records music for a living, is using an IR for this test. I declare all results invalid.

I’ve never made an IR myself to compare to my mic’d cabs. In fact I don’t record any music at all I just criticize people who do. Quite frankly I don’t really understand how any of this works.
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I’m clapping right now at this post
 
Bram576 said:
He did use the same exact speakers. Even explained how different each speaker even with the same model and close serials can be wildly different. Total lottery there.
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In the same cab?
 
SBlue said:
In the same cab?
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No not the same cab. Both used same materials and CNC to build. Which of course isn’t an Exact science. The two cabs are the same dimensions size wise as well. It’s not like comparing a Mesa oversized and a Marshall 1960.

I personally don’t know of a cab where it’s built where you can swap rear vs front on your own.

Anyway at the end of the initial video he basically sums up as he doesn’t think it really matters in terms of frequency spectrum, and it won’t really change anything. His results that he got were from the slight angling of the FB cab caused it to suck out 540 hz naturally. Giving it a more direct sound, good for metal and proves this by a null test. In the video he goes on to talk about Nolly mentioning this to him a while back… both guys are very good and well respected engineers who really go above and beyond in their testing.

I agree somewhat with cabs potentially sounding different from the same exact builder with the same model cab. Think it comes down to some variability in the build. Is it all hand done so there’s inconsistencies in the build?Or is it the Same materials, CNC… I honestly think there may be a difference but it’s minuscule. If you were to do the same speakers back and forth in a micd recording I’d put money no one here would be able to tell a difference in identical models blindfolded. Hell I could swap my speakers in my 2 Mesa cabs and I probably wouldn’t be able to tell any difference if it was micd up. In a room I’d be like oh I like that one better. But there’s so much damn confirmation bias with any guitarists, myself included.

Now I do completely agree that different cabs with different dimensions and materials sound different from the other. He actually did a recording of the same exact speaker going back and forth from a Mesa cab to a Marshall cab. Big difference there. 10:08 if you want to hear the difference.

 
The deliverance and fatbottom cabs are built differently on purpose to sound different, Steve Fryette's talked about this in the past in interviews and podcasts he's done and about he redesigned them over the years to change the sound more. Unless you use the same cab and remount the speakers I don't think you can really call it a real comparison and an IR doesn't really show you much vs an in room mic setup imo where the difference is really heard.
 
Kagami said:
The deliverance and fatbottom cabs are built differently on purpose to sound different, Steve Fryette's talked about this in the past in interviews and podcasts he's done and about he redesigned them over the years to change the sound more. Unless you use the same cab and remount the speakers I don't think you can really call it a real comparison and an IR doesn't really show you much vs an in room mic setup imo where the difference is really heard.
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Same dimensions, but the fat bottom is angled in a way. If you watched the video you’d see him get into this.

I would bet anyone here actual money they could not tell the difference between irs I’ve made of my cabs, vs the real deal. Especially when he’s the one who made the IR. It’s not like he’s just launching some other person”s third party stuff to do it.
 
Bram576 said:
Same dimensions, but the fat bottom is angled in a way. If you watched the video you’d see him get into this.

I would bet anyone here actual money they could not tell the difference between irs I’ve made of my cabs, vs the real deal. Especially when he’s the one who made the IR. It’s not like he’s just launching some other person”s third party stuff to do it.
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I have watched the video, the point of my post is that they're different in the room and IRs don't really show that since they're close mic'd. In the comments Jensen also talks about how they do their comparisons as well as some other interesting observations. While EQ response plots are interesting they don't really tell the whole story.

From a production standpoint I can see where he's coming from since that's all that matters to him.

Here's Steve talking about the two it starts at about 1 hour 47 minutes:
 
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It makes a difference but not as much difference as the variation between speakers.
 
Bram576 said:
No not the same cab. Both used same materials and CNC to build. Which of course isn’t an Exact science. The two cabs are the same dimensions size wise as well. It’s not like comparing a Mesa oversized and a Marshall 1960.

I personally don’t know of a cab where it’s built where you can swap rear vs front on your own.

Anyway at the end of the initial video he basically sums up as he doesn’t think it really matters in terms of frequency spectrum, and it won’t really change anything. His results that he got were from the slight angling of the FB cab caused it to suck out 540 hz naturally. Giving it a more direct sound, good for metal and proves this by a null test. In the video he goes on to talk about Nolly mentioning this to him a while back… both guys are very good and well respected engineers who really go above and beyond in their testing.

I agree somewhat with cabs potentially sounding different from the same exact builder with the same model cab. Think it comes down to some variability in the build. Is it all hand done so there’s inconsistencies in the build?Or is it the Same materials, CNC… I honestly think there may be a difference but it’s minuscule. If you were to do the same speakers back and forth in a micd recording I’d put money no one here would be able to tell a difference in identical models blindfolded. Hell I could swap my speakers in my 2 Mesa cabs and I probably wouldn’t be able to tell any difference if it was micd up. In a room I’d be like oh I like that one better. But there’s so much damn confirmation bias with any guitarists, myself included.

Now I do completely agree that different cabs with different dimensions and materials sound different from the other. He actually did a recording of the same exact speaker going back and forth from a Mesa cab to a Marshall cab. Big difference there. 10:08 if you want to hear the difference.

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That's cool. But wood is an organic material, and even if you build two cabinets with the same type of wood, same dimensions, same builder, same time, they will still sound different. Just like grabbing five of the very same acoustic guitars that were just built together, by the same builder, at the same time... they will sound different, still. That's because they are made out of organic material.
So, if anyone will prove a rear loaded vs front loaded cabinet AB test, it must be the same cab and exact same speakers. Mount the speakers through the rear, record with a proper room mic, then remove the speakers and front mount the same speakers on the same cab, without moving the cab or mics, and them recording it again.
The difference between two of the same cab is as big as the difference between two of the exact same speakers.
I've done those comparison many times at my former studio, in order to pick what cabinet and what speaker to mic for a certain type of sound.
That's only if you want the real, unbiased truth about rear vs front loaded cabs.
The difference in tone between same type cabs and same type speakers is quite big. Even if the speakers are in the same cabinet, the difference in tone between them is still very big.
 
My back hurts just thinking about more speaker testing.

Fane to me seems the most likely to be impacted by minor changes. Feels airy to me. But the rest to me.

Eminence hollow. Jensen thick but dense. Celestion thick/fat and wider overall. Would this variable matter in a room except for low end maybe?
 
SBlue said:
Mount the speakers through the rear, record with a proper room mic, then remove the speakers and front mount the same speakers on the same cab, without moving the cab or mics, and them recording it again.
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Theoretically wouldn't you move the mic back about the same distance as the thickness of the front baffle when recording the front-mount speaker?
Otherwise the mic will always be closer to the speaker on front-mounts, hence the whole "punchier/brighter" descriptions that people often claim.
 
SBlue said:
.
The difference between two of the same cab is as big as the difference between two of the exact same speakers.
I've done those comparison many times at my former studio, in order to pick what cabinet and what speaker to mic for a certain type of sound.
That's only if you want the real, unbiased truth about rear vs front loaded cabs.
The difference in tone between same type cabs and same type speakers is quite big. Even if the speakers are in the same cabinet, the difference in tone between them is still very big.
Click to expand...
I completely agree that the difference in tone between two speakers can be dramatically different even from the same batch, that’s even demonstrated here. Cab being dramatically different though with the same materials and specs, can’t agree with at all. A slight difference… MAYBE.

If you have any micd recordings and comparisons or videos that would be cool to post.
 
dave74 said:
Theoretically wouldn't you move the mic back about the same distance as the thickness of the front baffle when recording the front-mount speaker?
Otherwise the mic will always be closer to the speaker on front-mounts, hence the whole "punchier/brighter" descriptions that people often claim.
Click to expand...
No. I would not even use a close mic. If you wanna hear the cabinet, you have to use a single mic, pointing to the absolute center of the cabinet, a few feet back, where the four speakers sound waves join together. Otherwise you're not hearing the effect of the Rear vs Front load speaker, but just the cone itself.
Unless if you're using a 1x12, on which you would have the mic only a couple of feet away from the center of the speaker. Then you can move the mic about an inch back and forth, to accommodate the distance if the speaker is Front or Rear.
 
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