Greenback 20/25 VS Creamback 65

[Dave K]

I met with Rick today and Andy Farrow, the VP of sales for N. and S. America. Super nice dudes,btw !!
Andy told me the current Creamback is standardized, and his best guess is that some distributors are selling old stock from last year. Could explain the differences in the pics.
The two Creambacks I have experience with were fresh stock filled from a backorder, and I thought they were pretty damn nice sounding, and they looked identical, and zero issues with them.

 

[bushkey]

Backstock of creambacks a year old? Really? Huh...these speakers were on constant back order. not able to be kept up on the demand. I don't buy it.

 

[Deleted member 17525]

I just got a 2x12C cab loaded from StoneAge with 'em and they are sounding nice so far.
No issues with mine.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

I met with Rick today and Andy Farrow, the VP of sales for N. and S. America. Super nice dudes,btw !!
Andy told me the current Creamback is standardized, and his best guess is that some distributors are selling old stock from last year. Could explain the differences in the pics.

WTF? The "current" Creamback? They announced this speaker last October. They didn't even have them shipping in quantity until February 2013. I bought one from John @ Stone Age in December. He only got a few in, and made one available to me to test out. Then he had to wait for more as they were on allocation due to low production numbers.

Backstock of creambacks a year old? Really? Huh...these speakers were on constant back order not able to be kept up on the demand.

That's correct. I remember you contacted me in late January (1/23/13) saying you got two and tried it out with a couple of friends after you did the FBI variac thing to it for two days. Then you sold them, and they were gone "like that!" on the TGP because they weren't shipping.

I'm not buying the "current Creamback" is standardized line, Andy. Sorry. And I seriously doubt there were any distributors with old stock from last year since they couldn't make deliveries in quantity until March of this year.

 

[Deleted member 13074]

If there is a point to be made, it is not conclusively presented with these pics.
Each side-by-side is exposed differently, and the pair together are not uniformly lit.
So one has a thicker dust cap material, but the glue looks no different than any other pair of speakers.
Hardly a revelation. All product is continuously updated/refined whether it be an amp or a speaker etc, including those by other manufacturers*.
Perhaps there is an issue, and if so I would like to hear more examples of those affected, rather than witness a bandwagon based on what little has been posted so far.
My experience is the Creambacks I am running are working okay. The are not as smooth as GBs, but they have no QC issues.

The motivation of one maker discussing their opinion of the shortcomings of another, when they are in direct competition, has to be questioned. How this reflects on the poster is up to your interpretation.

*there have been updates to the Scumback product over time, and it has been said recently by Scumback that the older (blue frame) product had quality control issues. This serves firstly to discredit the 3rd party manufacturer and their current version of the same speaker, and secondly to promote the newer in-house version.
I had problems enjoying (not build quality issues) the blue-frame product but was assured by Scumback that all was well and I should be hearing something better than I was. I never did.
For Scumback to now be casting aspersions towards Celestion for their interpretation of the same problem is a bit rich.

 

[EyesOfTheSouth]

I have them all in front of me right now. Here are the cone codes:

16 ohm - 11914-611
16 ohm - 11914-611
8 ohm - N03-11914
8 ohm - L 20 11914 (sounds great)
8 ohm - L 20 11914 (sounds great)
8 ohm - 11914-611 (this is the one that sounds horrible)

 

[thiswaythatway]

I have them all in front of me right now. Here are the cone codes:

16 ohm - 11914-611
16 ohm - 11914-611
8 ohm - N03-11914
8 ohm - L 20 11914 (sounds great)
8 ohm - L 20 11914 (sounds great)
8 ohm - 11914-611 (this is the one that sounds horrible)

The 2 I have are 16 ohm - N03-11914. I think they sound good but are slightly dark. I could live with them and be ok if I had to.

 

[EyesOfTheSouth]

By the way, I'm not saying the speakers suck. If you read what I posted earlier in here......I actually prefer the "good" ones to the black frame M75's I had. If the Creambacks sucked, I wouldn't have 6 of them. All I'm saying is that 1 of them sucks. That got me wondering, and then I started looking for inconsistencies. Kind of like that picture game where you have to pick out what the differences are in 2 seemingly identical pictures. Then I spent the time loading all of them and testing them. And they all sound "a bit" different. I've just decided to move on from them. Like I said, the Lynchback is much better to me. I have 6 of them as well.........and they all look and sound the same.

 

[Dave K]

I'm not here to defend Celestion, but one or two examples out of thousands shipped is hardly keeping things in perspective.
I know if I get a bum speaker from ANY company I am going to contact them first and see what they have to say.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

If there is a point to be made, it is not conclusively presented with these pics.
Each side-by-side is exposed differently, and the pair together are not uniformly lit.
So one has a thicker dust cap material, but the glue looks no different than any other pair of speakers.
Hardly a revelation. All product is continuously updated/refined whether it be an amp or a speaker etc, including those by other manufacturers*.
Perhaps there is an issue, and if so I would like to hear more examples of those affected, rather than witness a bandwagon based on what little has been posted so far.
My experience is the Creambacks I am running are working okay. The are not as smooth as GBs, but they have no QC issues.

The motivation of one maker discussing their opinion of the shortcomings of another, when they are in direct competition, has to be questioned. How this reflects on the poster is up to your interpretation.

*there have been updates to the Scumback product over time, and it has been said recently by Scumback that the older (blue frame) product had quality control issues. This serves firstly to discredit the 3rd party manufacturer and their current version of the same speaker, and secondly to promote the newer in-house version.
I had problems enjoying (not build quality issues) the blue-frame product but was assured by Scumback that all was well and I should be hearing something better than I was. I never did.
For Scumback to now be casting aspersions towards Celestion for their interpretation of the same problem is a bit rich.

And your "opinion" is duly noted, Sick Squid. There are several videos I have posted of the QC issues that my former supplier was responsible for with shipments that went directly to clients as drop shipments of four or more speakers. Those speakers in particular had QC issues, and I have replaced (for free) well over 200 of those in the last two years.

Any speakers that went through my hands, were FBI'd and tested were good when they left here to be shipped to the client. But even then there weren't different color dust caps, different cone #'s, etc.

In point of fact, what is rich is saying there were leftover Creambacks from a year ago that distributors are now selling, when there was a well known shortage of them for 4-5 months, and they were only readily available 3 months ago. Please, let's not forget what this thread is about.

If you had an issue with a blue frame Scumback(s), and still have it, send it/them to me, and I'll rebuild it properly for free. All you need to do is provide me with your paypal receipt/email address and I'll look it up. Then I'll send you a shipping document to send it back to me to be rebuilt. My email is sales at scumbackspeakers.com so shoot me your paypal receipt info and I'll get it taken care of.

As for the rest of what you think my reasonings/points are, that's conjecture on your part. I had already sent multiple voice mails and emails to Rick to tell him about this thread 3-4 days ago. I'm not enemies with Celestion, far from it. But OTOH, the reason that Andy gave doesn't fly in the face of known facts.

 

[Deleted member 13074]

And your "opinion" is duly noted, Sick Squid.

What has beennoted are your attempts to discredit a speaker based on experience that has yet to be repeated.
(btw - EyesOfTheSouth, your point is made well, and it will be interesting to hear if it is an isolated case).
If there is an issue, and you are genuinely concerned, why not call Celestion UK, or the US Celestion rep, instead of quoting a passing comment from a 3rd party and fuelling a fire that has yet to take? But then how would that be in your interests? How is any of this in your interests, other than to publicly smear a competitor?
Having had QC issues of your own, what is your beef?

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Having had QC issues of your own, what is your beef?

For the record, the speakers I make recreate tones of old Celestions no longer made. The Creambacks aren't one of them, so I don't have a dog in this hunt. As for my former supplier's (blue frame) QC issues, those have been dealt with, video taped, apologized for publicly in forums like this, and handled by replacements provided at my cost, the same as I'm doing for you.

I don't have a beef here, but I guess you do. I just said the statement reportedly made by Andy doesn't add up in the time frame of how long Creambacks have been available. Perhaps he's been misquoted or mis-spoke. You might read my reply and comprehend it before posting about it again, SS. Apparently you missed that important point of how Creambacks weren't available readily until 3-4 months ago. So having stock in warehouses from a year ago doesn't really add up, does it?

I'm still waiting on your Scumback purchase / paypal receipt info I've asked you for via email thru RT, and in this thread publicly, twice. If you're unable to provide one, it would seem the only who's attempting to smear anyone here is you.

So please, send me your purchase info at your earliest opportunity so I can take care of your Scumback tone/QC problem. I look forward to hearing from you.

 

[Deleted member 13074]

I'm still waiting on your Scumback purchase / paypal receipt info I've asked you for via email thru RT, and in this thread publicly, twice. If you're unable to provide one, it would seem the only who's attempting to smear anyone here is you.

You're, "still waiting"?
And it's been almost 12h since I first posted. You're quite the aggressor.
Read my first post, and look for the bit where I said there were no build quality issues with my Scumbacks. They simply didn't fit my needs, and were not what I was aiming for to satisfy the sound in my head, so no smear there. Your attempt to spin that into a public customer service offer and turn it against me, all in one sentence, is hardly difficult to interpret.
The key here is the spin. I've no quarter with a niche manufacturer keeping their product in the public eye. It may be the only way to survive the current market, and I like to support entrepreneurs. What I do have a problem with is your need to put down your competitors or past collaborators, or any one finding your product to be less than perfect for their needs.

 

[blackba]

 

[Scumback Speakers]

SS: Actually I thought you were a Scumback client with a problem I could resolve and genuinely wanted to help. It appears you're not, or at least you're probably not if you can't send me proof, right? Not sure if that makes you a troll, or what, but it does show you have an agenda with Scumback, me or both. But if you're just here to argue, or to flame me over a time frame comment, that's fine, I guess. Go ahead. I thought you needed some blue frame Scumbacks fixed, since so many DID have QC issues. It's cost me well over $20k to rebuild many of them for clients, so I thought you might be another. I'm sure I'll continue hearing about it for some time to come and I'll handle them as they arise with the same offer to rebuild them and pay for the shipping both ways to the original buyers.

I didn't post the pics of the Creambacks for inspection, Eyes of the South did. Your critique of lighting/shading doesn't apply to the close up pics at all. He did present them with and without flash for scrutiny. If you can't see the differences, try some better reading glasses, or get a better computer monitor.

As for the comment from Andy K, that one doesn't make sense from a time frame of introduction to distribution, which was roughly from November 2012 (pre production models were at the LA AMP Show in 2012. I know because Henry @ Red Plate Amps had one). Current production is a misnomer because as far as I know (and since I'm in the industry I have some contacts you probably don't) there have been no revisions/changes to the product, which is only 8 months old. So there can't be any "year old" Creambacks. Maybe Andy was misquoted and he said "last year" Creambacks from November/December.

In any case, something doesn't make sense with the timeframe comment, pure and simple. I know both Andy and Rick (I know Rick a lot better), and I've been working with Celestion since 1999 when I was working with Duncan Boniface (lead speaker engineer from 1991-2003) on their 10" Greenback Reissue. And before you think I need to bash anyone for increased sales, which is incorrect, sales for June 2013 were up over 60% from June 2012 sales.

When I hear an explanation that doesn't make sense, I question it just like anyone else who read it would.

In closing, something doesn't add up, obviously, with what Eyes of the South has experienced. I'm sure you need to have the last word, so go ahead, but I'm done.

 

[Dave K]

One speaker out of thousands shipped. One. Not an entire "batch". One.
Shipping from overseas to a warehouse,to a distribution point,to a store,to a consumer,there are many points along the way where things can get lost, damaged,misplaced,etc.

Let's not forget the person installing the speaker can do damage.
If you buy a new speaker and properly install it and it sounds like shit, like there's an obvious defect, contact the manufacturer, as most likely they would like to know about it. Now if they don't care or tell you to piss off, I'd share my experience on a forum, damn straight !!

I'm just glad we have so many damn fine choices these days !!

 

[Deleted member 13074]

I didn't post the pics of the Creambacks for inspection, Eyes of the South did. If you can't see the differences, try some better reading glasses, or get a better computer monitor.

I'm sure you need to have the last word, so go ahead, but I'm done.

I don't need the last word, but since you offered, after yet more belittling comments, I'll take you up on it.

Your negative bias towards Celestion, and comparison of your superior product were in the thread well before the pics and associated problem were posted, as well as before the alleged words from a Celestion employee. No matter they were 3rd hand, you were happy to leap to conclusions that reinforce your market position. It always comes back to how great your product is.

There is simply no place for you to be posting in this thread, unless it is to offer insight into the manufacturing process, or to offer praise. If you can't see how doing any less than that reflects on you, then keep on belittling your potential customer base and take the consequences.

I will now sign off too.
As it stands, after your performance here, my chances of buying Scumback product in future stands at roughly,
feck all
Good day.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Got a call from Rick @ Celestion, thanking me for hipping him to this thread and trying to help. They are going to do some investigation into what happened. I'm pretty sure Eyes of the South will be contacted by them for some more information.

 

[thiswaythatway]

I'm still waiting on your Scumback purchase / paypal receipt info I've asked you for via email thru RT, and in this thread publicly, twice. If you're unable to provide one, it would seem the only who's attempting to smear anyone here is you.

You're, "still waiting"?
And it's been almost 12h since I first posted. You're quite the aggressor.
Read my first post, and look for the bit where I said there were no build quality issues with my Scumbacks. They simply didn't fit my needs, and were not what I was aiming for to satisfy the sound in my head, so no smear there. Your attempt to spin that into a public customer service offer and turn it against me, all in one sentence, is hardly difficult to interpret.
The key here is the spin. I've no quarter with a niche manufacturer keeping their product in the public eye. It may be the only way to survive the current market, and I like to support entrepreneurs. What I do have a problem with is your need to put down your competitors or past collaborators, or any one finding your product to be less than perfect for their needs.

It sounds to me that Jim from Scumback is involved in the discussion but you're taking it as a smear because of who he is. I didn't see Jim putting down Celestion. He's asking questions like the rest of us about the findings that someone else posted.

 

[rupe]

I'm still waiting on your Scumback purchase / paypal receipt info I've asked you for via email thru RT, and in this thread publicly, twice. If you're unable to provide one, it would seem the only who's attempting to smear anyone here is you.

You're, "still waiting"?
And it's been almost 12h since I first posted. You're quite the aggressor.
Read my first post, and look for the bit where I said there were no build quality issues with my Scumbacks. They simply didn't fit my needs, and were not what I was aiming for to satisfy the sound in my head, so no smear there. Your attempt to spin that into a public customer service offer and turn it against me, all in one sentence, is hardly difficult to interpret.
The key here is the spin. I've no quarter with a niche manufacturer keeping their product in the public eye. It may be the only way to survive the current market, and I like to support entrepreneurs. What I do have a problem with is your need to put down your competitors or past collaborators, or any one finding your product to be less than perfect for their needs.

It sounds to me that Jim from Scumback is involved in the discussion but you're taking it as a smear because of who he is. I didn't see Jim putting down Celestion. He's asking questions like the rest of us about the findings that someone else posted.

Agreed. I have no dog in this fight but SS is clearly acting like a whiny little bitch and trying to create drama where none is needed.