Hagen vs VH4

  • Thread starter Thread starter the other John Browne
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hopkinWFG said:
I could probably relate to your clips as the Hagen being more of a feels right but abit more unforgiving on its sound, the Hagen has more mids oriented while the VH4 is abit more scooped it's tighter compares to the Hagen, more 90s era on the VH4 while Hagen is definitely more modern... Probably even compares to the Herbert

An eye opener for me as I always thought the VH4 has a higher amount of mids... It's probably due to my unit being EL34 powered...

We're both Hagen and VH4 using KT77? I probably think so as you always makes comparison as close as possible.. just to confirm again with you... Nice video and thx for the effort we been waiting !
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Yes! I KT77'd the VH4 before making this video and I set the bias the same too.
In my stand alone VH4 video it had 6CA7s. It came to me with very tired EL34s. I really wanted to use KT77s for the stand alone video too but it turned out both of my spare quads of KT77s were bad so I used the 6CA7s while waiting for new tubes.
Thanks for checking out the video!
 
Fantastic comparison video. Very comprehensive work. I like that you did quick A/B swaps to really get an immediate effect rather than many videos that play each too long and on different riffs between amps and then it's harder to compare apples with apples.
I find the Hagen's dials have a finer yet larger overall range to use, if that makes sense. Smaller movements on the Hagen dials have greater sweep than on the VH4. I find the VH4 has it's sweet spot ranges between broader ranges, ie: the gain pot on CH3 is sweetest between about 10 and 2pm with less range difference, after and before that it's kinda meh. The Hagen has a similar sweep but between say 11 and 1pm and out side of those has even more range available. To me anyway.

While it's not 'officially' a VH4 MkII, I def think it 'effectively' is.
'Reimagined' I think is the trendy term lately.
I've been plugging into the Hagen the last couple of weeks thanks to your posts and loving it.
 
Philhouse said:
Fantastic comparison video. Very comprehensive work. I like that you did quick A/B swaps to really get an immediate effect rather than many videos that play each too long and on different riffs between amps and then it's harder to compare apples with apples.
I find the Hagen's dials have a finer yet larger overall range to use, if that makes sense. Smaller movements on the Hagen dials have greater sweep than on the VH4. I find the VH4 has it's sweet spot ranges between broader ranges, ie: the gain pot on CH3 is sweetest between about 10 and 2pm with less range difference, after and before that it's kinda meh. The Hagen has a similar sweep but between say 11 and 1pm and out side of those has even more range available. To me anyway.

While it's not 'officially' a VH4 MkII, I def think it 'effectively' is.
'Reimagined' I think is the trendy term lately.
I've been plugging into the Hagen the last couple of weeks thanks to your posts and loving it.
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Thanks for the wonderful feedback! I couldn't agree more with your assessment. I could not have said it any better
 
Honestly I think the VH4 still sounds the more modern and inherently aggressive amp.
I've watched your (awesome) video a few times now, and each time I hear the amp that I prefer the sound of, I look at the video and it's the VH4.
The Hagen might have more gain, but that's just a matter of turning up the gain on the VH4 to compensate.
To me the VH4 is the quicker/faster amp, sounds bigger and clearer.

I wouldn't turn down a Hagen for the right price, but having seen this video showing such a great comparison between the VH4/Hagen, I'm more than happy with my VH4S. As I mentioned before, I run mine 4CM with a boost and gate in front, and a gate and Graphic EQ in the FX Loop and it's a modern metal monster. Utter sonic annihlation.

I've got a mate's Herbert MK1 here on loan and that's a great amp. Next amp I buy will be a Herbert.
 
jdel77 said:
Honestly I think the VH4 still sounds the more modern and inherently aggressive amp.
I've watched your (awesome) video a few times now, and each time I hear the amp that I prefer the sound of, I look at the video and it's the VH4.
The Hagen might have more gain, but that's just a matter of turning up the gain on the VH4 to compensate.
To me the VH4 is the quicker/faster amp, sounds bigger and clearer.

I wouldn't turn down a Hagen for the right price, but having seen this video showing such a great comparison between the VH4/Hagen, I'm more than happy with my VH4S. As I mentioned before, I run mine 4CM with a boost and gate in front, and a gate and Graphic EQ in the FX Loop and it's a modern metal monster. Utter sonic annihlation.

I've got a mate's Herbert MK1 here on loan and that's a great amp. Next amp I buy will be a Herbert.
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Thank you very much. I honestly still can't pick a favourite between the two. I go back and forth... but Herbert is the GOAT for me
 
the other John Browne said:
Thank you very much. I honestly still can't pick a favourite between the two. I go back and forth... but Herbert is the GOAT for me
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I will say that I think the Herbert is deservedly achieving its status as a modern classic amp in it’s own right, just as the VH4 always has.
Seemed for a while there the Herbert was just the other Diezel you got if you already had a VH4, but it’s definitely got it’s own devoted following.
I find you’ve really got to work with the VH4. It’s like a JCM800/Boogie Mark hybrid in that sense. Very quick and unforgiving amp, you better on top of your shit with your picking hand with this thing. Kills for brutal single note riffs and leads.
The Herbert is way more forgiving and fun straight off the bat. Thicker and more of a wall of gain for rhythm.
I’ve always thought that the VH4 would appeal more to JCM800/Boogie Mark players, while the Herbert is more familiar to dudes used to the Recto/5150 amps.
Good times all round with either amp really, or both!
 
What is your favorite version of the Herbert?

I’ve always wanted to own one but thought a 65 lb head would be impractical for my use. I would never want to take it anywhere.
 
pipboy90 said:
What is your favorite version of the Herbert?

I’ve always wanted to own one but thought a 65 lb head would be impractical for my use. I would never want to take it anywhere.
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I have yet to try a mk III but I have a mk I and II and between the two it really doesn't make much of a difference. If I had to keep one, it would be the mk I as it is 2% sweeter than the mk II to me
 
the other John Browne said:
I have yet to try a mk III but I have a mk I and II and between the two it really doesn't make much of a difference. If I had to keep one, it would be the mk I as it is 2% sweeter than the mk II to me
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I think from memory I read a post from Peter Diezel who said that there's no difference between any of the Herberts apart from:

* MKI has lower clean headroom on Channel 1 - meaning it can potentially dirty/compress up a little sooner on the Gain dial than MK2 or MK3
* MKIII uses a different output transformer and has a black faceplate.
* There may be circuit board revisions out there.

I know for example that early VH4's are much darker and more compressed than recent VH4's, but these seem to have the most variation amongst the Diezel amps. Also, Diezel schematics are insanely hard to find so I can't actually compare component values etc..., but this is what I've picked up here and there.
Happy to be shown otherwise though!
 
jdel77 said:
I think from memory I read a post from Peter Diezel who said that there's no difference between any of the Herberts apart from:

* MKI has lower clean headroom on Channel 1 - meaning it can potentially dirty/compress up a little sooner on the Gain dial than MK2 or MK3
* MKIII uses a different output transformer and has a black faceplate.
* There may be circuit board revisions out there.

I know for example that early VH4's are much darker and more compressed than recent VH4's, but these seem to have the most variation amongst the Diezel amps. Also, Diezel schematics are insanely hard to find so I can't actually compare component values etc..., but this is what I've picked up here and there.
Happy to be shown otherwise though!
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For all intents and purposes, the mk I and mk II are the same on channels 2 and 3. The minor differences between mine are probably just pot tolerances or possibly the different transformers
 
jdel77 said:
Honestly I think the VH4 still sounds the more modern and inherently aggressive amp.
I've watched your (awesome) video a few times now, and each time I hear the amp that I prefer the sound of, I look at the video and it's the VH4.
The Hagen might have more gain, but that's just a matter of turning up the gain on the VH4 to compensate.
To me the VH4 is the quicker/faster amp, sounds bigger and clearer.

I wouldn't turn down a Hagen for the right price, but having seen this video showing such a great comparison between the VH4/Hagen, I'm more than happy with my VH4S. As I mentioned before, I run mine 4CM with a boost and gate in front, and a gate and Graphic EQ in the FX Loop and it's a modern metal monster. Utter sonic annihlation.

I've got a mate's Herbert MK1 here on loan and that's a great amp. Next amp I buy will be a Herbert.
Click to expand...
I have a couple Herbert’s . My old mk 1 is my fav. Even more so than my mk. 3 and vh4 . It’s my ultimate Diezel .
 
Great video man! So the settings on screen on what you are using in the vid?

I never get get a crystal clean from my VH4 no matter how much I try compared to my VHX. I have a 2020 with KT77's. Going to try your settings on screen. Great vid man! The Hagen sounds wonderful. Keep doing more vids!


I am debating having a local amp guy re-tube my VH4 with 6550 tubes (I am a huge Hetfield fanboy) EL 34's or 6L6's. I mainly play metallica type music.

Any advice from you experts? Thanks!
 
MesaSean said:
Great video man! So the settings on screen on what you are using in the vid?

I never get get a crystal clean from my VH4 no matter how much I try compared to my VHX. I have a 2020 with KT77's. Going to try your settings on screen. Great vid man! The Hagen sounds wonderful. Keep doing more vids!


I am debating having a local amp guy re-tube my VH4 with 6550 tubes (I am a huge Hetfield fanboy) EL 34's or 6L6's. I mainly play metallica type music.

Any advice from you experts? Thanks!
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Thanks so much! I will, I am enjoying it a lot so far. Yes. The playthrough sections generally show the amps or modules while recording the guitar. So the settings you see relate to the tones you hear.
It's a bit of a sweet spot to hit with my VH4 too. A little less gain and the volume is too quiet, a little more and it starts to get crunchy.
 
the other John Browne said:
Thanks so much! I will, I am enjoying it a lot so far. Yes. The playthrough sections generally show the amps or modules while recording the guitar. So the settings you see relate to the tones you hear.
It's a bit of a sweet spot to hit with my VH4 too. A little less gain and the volume is too quiet, a little more and it starts to get crunchy.
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Thanks for the rapid reply.... I have my VH4 on Reverb with an offer... but now you are making me want to fiddle with it more and get the most out of it.

Really thinking of re-tubing it but not sure which ones to get. The main reason is because (in my personal opinion... many may not agree) I dialed my VHX in to sound EXACTLY like my VH4. I have an A/B switcher and wow it was nearly identical. I think @Leo Diezel said the VHX has the same circuit on the VHX as the VH4.

But going to try your settings today.

Cheers!
 
MesaSean said:
Thanks for the rapid reply.... I have my VH4 on Reverb with an offer... but now you are making me want to fiddle with it more and get the most out of it.

Really thinking of re-tubing it but not sure which ones to get. The main reason is because (in my personal opinion... many may not agree) I dialed my VHX in to sound EXACTLY like my VH4. I have an A/B switcher and wow it was nearly identical. I think @Leo Diezel said the VHX has the same circuit on the VHX as the VH4.

But going to try your settings today.

Cheers!
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Is it just channel 1 on your VH4 that doesn't wow you or are the other channels also not quite doing it for you at the moment?
 
the other John Browne said:
Is it just channel 1 on your VH4 that doesn't wow you or are the other channels also not quite doing it for you at the moment?
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Hmm well the Channel 1 is not nearly as sparkly clean as the VHX.. but just played around again with the VHX and VH4 and they sound identical for channel 3 IMO. Channel 2 also sounds the same. I just love all the built in FX also on the VHX... like when I use the overdrive on the VH4 I right away have to get a noise gate, reverb pedal, delay pedal etc. if I want those things. With the VHX I can get that VH4 tone and boom... it is dead silent between notes because of the gate and sounds killer with on board reverb.

My VH4 sounds really good for channel 3 but just redundant having it with the VHX. I love having a Ground Control Pro and have like 24+ presets made of all different voicings and FX.
 
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