Help Me Build a Rack Rig - UPDATED 12/7/2011

[IndyWS6]

Greetings

I had a (pathetically simple) rack rig back in the day but now play a Hughes & Kettner Switchblade on a 4x12. I wouldn't mind building another rack, so I'm looking to the forum for suggestions. I don't need a ton of high-end gear to be happy and it doesn't need to be stereo. A reasonably portable solution would also be a plus, so I'm shooting for the best combination of gear that I could stuff in an 8-10 space rack. I would eventually like to rack any pedals I use on a tray, but don't mid starting with a pedalboard for anything I can't get from a multi-effect processor. I'm looking for gear that will nail the '80's sounds for music from bands like Tesla, Dokken, Scorpions, Ratt, etc.

Pre-amp choices?
I definitely want a tube-based pre. I used my effects processor as the pre-amp in the past, so I have no history here. What do you suggest?

Power amp choices?
Again, looking for tube-based power. I'm more concerned with tone than rated watts, but something with the headroom equivalent of a 50 - 100 watt head...

Rackmount Multi-Effects
I have an Eleven Rack, but it's permanently mounted in my recording desk and I don't want to move it. I can get another if that's the consensus, but I'm open to suggestions for multi-effect units. Axe? Digitech? Suggestions?

Rackmount Stand-Alone effects
Anything needed in addition to a multi-effect unit?

Pedals
I have never had a lot of pedals (compressor, Tube Screamer), but I would certainly invest in the "go to" pedals needed to get the '80's sounds. I just don't know where to start or what might be needed to supplement a multi-effects unit.

Thanks in advance...

 

[guitarslinger]

What is your budget?

Do you have a preference regarding:

1. Series vs. Parallel?
2. How involved do you want your midi switching to be?
3. is weight a concern?
4. Do you like knobs more than buttons?
5. Do you mind using four rack spaces for your power amp?


on the cheap =

ADA MC-1 midi controller
ADA MP-1
Rocktron Intellifex
Marshall 9100
Marshall 1960A

What I use for the Hair Metal gig =

Egnater M4, Groove Tubes Trio, or Bogner Fish
TC 2290 or Roland SDE-2500
Rivera TBR-3
Pair of Emperor 4x12's

 

[TrentBizzle]

Egnater m4
Randall RT2/50
TC G major 2
Line 6 Wireless
GCX or RJM16
Whatever pedals you want in a shelf.

That seems to be a simple enough setup that a lot of people have used in some fashion.

 

[IndyWS6]

Thanks for the response...

As fas as budget - I don't have a set limit. I don't need a $3,000 Soldano rack amp, but I'm not opposed to spending what I need to get a quality rig built. Cheaper is better, but not at the expense of quality components If I could keep the preamp and power amp total to less than $2,000, that would be great. I'm inclined to shop used for this venture to try and get quality pieces for a little less.

1. Series vs. Parallel - I need some help here. I know the difference from a 50,000 foot view, but not how to apply it to a build/buy decision. What are the recommendations?

2. MIDI Switching - I'm not sure of the best way to answer this... What would seem best for me would be to have a floor controller that can be programmed to change everything in the rack with one button press per song, with separate buttons for a solo boost, distortion on/off, etc. As an example, if I want to play "Modern Day Cowboy", I can hit preset "X" and everything (preamp channel, multi-effects unit, etc.) will go where needed. Inside that song, I can hit a separate button to turn off distortion for the clean parts and another for a solo boost. Does that description make sense? If that is a poor approach - or difficult to implement - let me know how you guys & gals do it so I can learn and adapt.

3. Weight - Weight is not a huge concern, but the smaller the rack the better. The caveat here is that I'm not willing to sacrifice quality tone/equipment to save rack space. If the rack needs to be bigger, then I'll find a way to haul it. The truth is that right now, I play to an audience of one in a spare bedroom, so mobility is secondary...

4. Knobs vs, Buttons - No preference - more concerned with getting the right functionality.

5. Rack Spaces - 4 spaces for a power amp would be acceptable. My old rig has a Peavey Classic 60 tube power amp that eats three spaces, so one more is not a big deal...

 

[mysticaxe]

Umm, I'm pretty happy with an AxeFx and a Boogie 50/50 poweramp. Throw in an FCB1010 and a 4 space rack and you're under 2K for the whole thing. Can dial in anything, great effects...

There, I'm the one who brought up the elephant...

 

[IndyWS6]

Umm, I'm pretty happy with an AxeFx and a Boogie 50/50 poweramp. Throw in an FCB1010 and a 4 space rack and you're under 2K for the whole thing. Can dial in anything, great effects...

There, I'm the one who brought up the elephant...

Is the "elephant" the Axe FX? New here...

 

[nevusofota]

I just went this route a few months ago. Putting everything into a rack is going to be extremely heavy for transport. Have you thought about keeping your current head in the rig and not racking it? I have a 2x12 cab, rack, head, and pedal board w/ a midi controller. This type of set up is easier to transport than using a rack consisting of the pre and power amps. I wanted my rack to be as small as possible, lightweight and to fit into various sized automobiles, it consists of the following:

Furman power conditioner
G-Major 2 (used mostly for chorus, reverb and delay)
RJM Mini amp gizmo (to switch my amp via midi. It doesn't take up a rack space, it's mounted on top of the G-major via dual lock)
GCX
Sliding pedal shelf

All is controlled with a Liquid-foot midi foot controlller (though the cheaper Ground control pro is great for the money)

I have some of my pedals in front of the amp (Maxon OD9, MXR gate, comp) and some in the loop (flanger, EQ, GM2). Hope this helps.

 

[mysticaxe]

Umm, I'm pretty happy with an AxeFx and a Boogie 50/50 poweramp. Throw in an FCB1010 and a 4 space rack and you're under 2K for the whole thing. Can dial in anything, great effects...

There, I'm the one who brought up the elephant...

Is the "elephant" the Axe FX? New here...

It's the elephant in terms of number of threads and flexibility out of a 2 space unit. It's the first thing I think of about a rack rig.

 

[IndyWS6]

I just went this route a few months ago. Putting everything into a rack is going to be extremely heavy for transport. Have you thought about keeping your current head in the rig and not racking it? I have a 2x12 cab, rack, head, and pedal board w/ a midi controller. This type of set up is easier to transport than using a rack consisting of the pre and power amps. I wanted my rack to be as small as possible, lightweight and to fit into various sized automobiles, it consists of the following:

Furman power conditioner
G-Major 2 (used mostly for chorus, reverb and delay)
RJM Mini amp gizmo (to switch my amp via midi. It doesn't take up a rack space, it's mounted on top of the G-major via dual lock)
GCX
Sliding pedal shelf

All is controlled with a Liquid-foot midi foot controlller (though the cheaper Ground control pro is great for the money)

I have some of my pedals in front of the amp (Maxon OD9, MXR gate, comp) and some in the loop (flanger, EQ, GM2). Hope this helps.

nevusofota - Thanks for the reply - and the suggestions...

I think I'm going to head down the path towards a rack mounted power section. I'll either need to haul a good-sized rack, or a somewhat smaller rack and a head. Neither approach will work with my GTO (love the car but the trunk is just north of worthless...), so I might as well do the rack thing since I'd be trucking either one.

The GCX and Ground Control Pro look like solid choices. The liquid foot looks great, but like you mention, may not be as cost-effective as the GC Pro. The truth is that it is a little more high-end than I need.

Where brand of rack and shelf did you purchase?

Thanks again...

 

[jabps]

Lots of good suggestions on here so far but based on what you said....

Tube Pre...Egnater M4, Randall M4 or Marshall JMP-1. The eggie and Randalls have alot of variations with the modular pre sections. Randalls are easier to find. The Marshall...alot of pro players still using that thing. All units are full midi.

Tube Power Amp...Randall RT series, Boogie 2:90...both brands are 2 spaces and deliver the goods. 2:90 is my personal fave.

Processors...well sky is the limit here. The Axe-Fx...just for the effects. G-Major, Rocktron Replifex/Intellifex, Digitech GSP 1101, Eventide etc... Delays, verbs and chorusing...can't go wrong with any of these here.

Pedals...your standard stuff...Phase 90, Flangers, Vibes...all sound better in front of the amp to me, and all sound better than any processor. And tons of manufacturers have they're own variation. Look at Voodoo Labs, MXR, Retrosonic, Ibanez, Boss, Analog Man, Tone Freak, Fulltone...on and on but the standards would be a Phaser, Flanger, Tremolo, Vibe.

Loop Switchers...routing your signal and turning pedal loops off and on...Voodoo Labs GCX Ground Control pedal and looper or the RJM stuff. Both are great products and aren't going to break the bank.

Send me a check and I'll put you a rack together lol.

 

[jabps]

I just went this route a few months ago. Putting everything into a rack is going to be extremely heavy for transport. Have you thought about keeping your current head in the rig and not racking it? I have a 2x12 cab, rack, head, and pedal board w/ a midi controller. This type of set up is easier to transport than using a rack consisting of the pre and power amps. I wanted my rack to be as small as possible, lightweight and to fit into various sized automobiles, it consists of the following:

Furman power conditioner
G-Major 2 (used mostly for chorus, reverb and delay)
RJM Mini amp gizmo (to switch my amp via midi. It doesn't take up a rack space, it's mounted on top of the G-major via dual lock)
GCX
Sliding pedal shelf

All is controlled with a Liquid-foot midi foot controlller (though the cheaper Ground control pro is great for the money)

I have some of my pedals in front of the amp (Maxon OD9, MXR gate, comp) and some in the loop (flanger, EQ, GM2). Hope this helps.

Nice setup...reminds me of my rig. Sweet and simple yet a ton of options.

 

[IndyWS6]

Lots of good suggestions on here so far but based on what you said....

Tube Pre...Egnater M4, Randall M4 or Marshall JMP-1. The eggie and Randalls have alot of variations with the modular pre sections. Randalls are easier to find. The Marshall...alot of pro players still using that thing. All units are full midi.

Tube Power Amp...Randall RT series, Boogie 2:90...both brands are 2 spaces and deliver the goods. 2:90 is my personal fave.

Processors...well sky is the limit here. The Axe-Fx...just for the effects. G-Major, Rocktron Replifex/Intellifex, Digitech GSP 1101, Eventide etc... Delays, verbs and chorusing...can't go wrong with any of these here.

Pedals...your standard stuff...Phase 90, Flangers, Vibes...all sound better in front of the amp to me, and all sound better than any processor. And tons of manufacturers have they're own variation. Look at Voodoo Labs, MXR, Retrosonic, Ibanez, Boss, Analog Man, Tone Freak, Fulltone...on and on but the standards would be a Phaser, Flanger, Tremolo, Vibe.

Loop Switchers...routing your signal and turning pedal loops off and on...Voodoo Labs GCX Ground Control pedal and looper or the RJM stuff. Both are great products and aren't going to break the bank.

Send me a check and I'll put you a rack together lol.

jabps - thanks for the response...

I appreciate that you split it up into sub-groups. I was just beginning to think that I may have better luck (and more responses) if I had posted it that way ("what power amp...", "what preamp...", etc.). I'll do some research on the options you suggested while waiting on others to chime in.

Once again, thanks for the help...

P.S. The "putting together" is something I actually look forward to. It's not that I'm cheap; I rather enjoy building and cabling that sort of stuff

 

[jabps]

Lots of good suggestions on here so far but based on what you said....

Tube Pre...Egnater M4, Randall M4 or Marshall JMP-1. The eggie and Randalls have alot of variations with the modular pre sections. Randalls are easier to find. The Marshall...alot of pro players still using that thing. All units are full midi.

Tube Power Amp...Randall RT series, Boogie 2:90...both brands are 2 spaces and deliver the goods. 2:90 is my personal fave.

Processors...well sky is the limit here. The Axe-Fx...just for the effects. G-Major, Rocktron Replifex/Intellifex, Digitech GSP 1101, Eventide etc... Delays, verbs and chorusing...can't go wrong with any of these here.

Pedals...your standard stuff...Phase 90, Flangers, Vibes...all sound better in front of the amp to me, and all sound better than any processor. And tons of manufacturers have they're own variation. Look at Voodoo Labs, MXR, Retrosonic, Ibanez, Boss, Analog Man, Tone Freak, Fulltone...on and on but the standards would be a Phaser, Flanger, Tremolo, Vibe.

Loop Switchers...routing your signal and turning pedal loops off and on...Voodoo Labs GCX Ground Control pedal and looper or the RJM stuff. Both are great products and aren't going to break the bank.

Send me a check and I'll put you a rack together lol.

jabps - thanks for the response...

I appreciate that you split it up into sub-groups. I was just beginning to think that I may have better luck (and more responses) if I had posted it that way ("what power amp...", "what preamp...", etc.). I'll do some research on the options you suggested while waiting on others to chime in.

Once again, thanks for the help...

P.S. The "putting together" is something I actually look forward to. It's not that I'm cheap; I rather enjoy building and cabling that sort of stuff

No problem man...I use to have the full on pre-amp/power amp deal. I think it was 14 or 16 space...I need to post some pics of that thing one day.

I used those as examples because if i was putting together a full blown rack that's where I'd start myself. The reason I would be interested in the Eggie and Randall stuff is not only the modular sections but it's midi...same with the Marshall. Granted alot of pre's are midi but some your gonna have to use a switcher ala RJM etc...

I would also look into some of the Engl pre-amps as well and of course if you wanted to go old school a modded ADA MP-1 is cool as well. I actually had Todd Langner himself mod my ADA back in the 90's...plus I had some of his own stuff as well. As for power amps...Boogies are great. They've made/still make a ton of great power amps. Same with VHT. But my first 2 stops would be the Randall stuff or the Boogie 2:90. The 2:90 was in my rig for a long time.

Processors...open bag here. I mean you can go from $400 bucks to $3 grand. And get great tones out of all of them. If your not opposed to spending the buck, I'd probably give the Axe-Fx a try...kinda a 2 for one in that thing. Of course I make just take a look at the Eventide Eclipse as well. Then again knowing me I'd be right back to me cheap Quadraverb haha.

Switchers...really look at the RJM and Voodoo Labs/Ground Control stuff. It's great affordable gear that pro's use. And most importantly...easy to purchase. Liquid Pro, Axess, Skydstrup...all fantastic stuff but what's the wait. Know what I mean. I've been using the GCX stuff since it was first introduced...never had a problem with them and customer service is great.

Good luck, post pics when your done.

 

[nevusofota]

I just went this route a few months ago. Putting everything into a rack is going to be extremely heavy for transport. Have you thought about keeping your current head in the rig and not racking it? I have a 2x12 cab, rack, head, and pedal board w/ a midi controller. This type of set up is easier to transport than using a rack consisting of the pre and power amps. I wanted my rack to be as small as possible, lightweight and to fit into various sized automobiles, it consists of the following:

Furman power conditioner
G-Major 2 (used mostly for chorus, reverb and delay)
RJM Mini amp gizmo (to switch my amp via midi. It doesn't take up a rack space, it's mounted on top of the G-major via dual lock)
GCX
Sliding pedal shelf

All is controlled with a Liquid-foot midi foot controlller (though the cheaper Ground control pro is great for the money)

I have some of my pedals in front of the amp (Maxon OD9, MXR gate, comp) and some in the loop (flanger, EQ, GM2). Hope this helps.

Nice setup...reminds me of my rig. Sweet and simple yet a ton of options.

Thanks. It's working quite well. I also think my tone improved greatly since I'm running less cables.

 

[rsm]

Whatever you do DON'T get a Marshall EL34 100/100 Dual Monobloc power amp!

....because I really want one, and you may buy the one I find out there!

If I was building a rack rig today, this would be my power amp of choice. I dig EL84 and EL34. I think the 9100 / 9200 have different power tubes, but I forget what they are.

I have an ADA MP-2 with noise mod, and 7-Pin MIDI cable and foot controls (the pedal is in bad shape though) that I may be willing to part with?

I'd start with the preamp and poweramp combinations first, get your basic tones working first. The JMP-1 is great IMO, I have no plans to sell mine - it gives me all the Marshall tones I need (but I'm a Vox guy so what do I know about Marshall tone variations?).

Mesa Triaxis, H&K, several other options for preamps out there. AFAIK, not many new ones but Bogner Fish reissue, ENGL has a few too, not sure as I haven't looked a guitar preamps in a very long time.

Next, if there are key effects to your sound like reverb or delay, etc. you may want dedicated effect units or get one of those Eventides like DigiJams, etc. not a big effects guy, so YMMV

 

[IndyWS6]

rsm - thanks for the response...

Your suggestion makes sense - I think I'm going to decide on a pre-amp/power amp combination and then build from there. I've been looking at the rackmount power amps for sale over the last week or so and have found a couple of Marshall's. I'm sure a WTB post would make some appear

So far, the suggestions for pre-amps have been mainly ADA MP-1, Marshall JMP-1, Egnater M4 and Randall. What's the consensus on the ENGL 530? Can this pre-amp get an '80's rock sound? I'm not a metal player and that's what I tend to think of when I think ENGL (maybe incorrectly...). School me on this pre-amp please

 

[Jimmie]

Are you trying to nail the sound of those bands during that era or have a more modern sounding tone? If you're going retro, ADA preamp or better, a Triaxis paired up with a Similclass 2:90, Rocktron Intellifex, Monster 3500, Decimator ProRack G and a Ground Control. Don't scrimp on rack spaces or quality, go larger and put in a 4 space storage drawer, you can always shit-can the drawer for more goodies later.

 

[IndyWS6]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not familiar with the Monster 3500 or ProRack G (except in name only) - I need to do some research. Like you mentioned, I'm inclined to ensure adequate rack space from the start. With my car I'll be forced to use a van/truck to haul it anyway, so I might as well get something that allows for growth. Hell, it's tempting to get one of the larger racks that have spaces for head(s) on one side and rackmount gear on the other. Of course, it might take a crane to lift it.

As far as tone, what would be great is to have a rig that could nail the sounds of that era (my primary goal) but be flexible enough to get a more modern sound. With tube-based power and pre amps, it seems like that is a reasonable goal, especially considering the quality and depth of the newer multi-effect units. What say you?

 

[Jimmie]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not familiar with the Monster 3500 or ProRack G (except in name only) - I need to do some research. Like you mentioned, I'm inclined to ensure adequate rack space from the start. With my car I'll be forced to use a van/truck to haul it anyway, so I might as well get something that allows for growth. Hell, it's tempting to get one of the larger racks that have spaces for head(s) on one side and rackmount gear on the other. Of course, it might take a crane to lift it.

As far as tone, what would be great is to have a rig that could nail the sounds of that era (my primary goal) but be flexible enough to get a more modern sound. With tube-based power and pre amps, it seems like that is a reasonable goal, especially considering the quality and depth of the newer multi-effect units. What say you?

Brad, owner of the site sold me "one" of his Rockhard amp head cases (just how much cool shit that guy owns is anyone's guess) but I digress.. anyway, it stands almost 5 feet tall with the wheels on it and you can just about push it across the floor with a feather with a 70 lb RM100 and a 20 lb ART SLA2. I roll it back to my truck, tilt it back and hoist her up by the casters. the ballend caps make it easy to slide it the rest of the way in. I got sick of humping gear a long time ago...

I loved my Triaxis/similclass 2:90, but I bought it in 1992, there wasn't a whole lot better then, of course three grand then is probably closer to five grand, now comparitively, and still the going rate to get into some of the best sounding gear.
good luck in your quest

 

[IndyWS6]

Jimmie - Thank you sir...

Right now I'm leaning toward a Marshall 9100 or 9200 as the power side of the rig. I hadn't intended on building a stereo rig, but the dual monobloc amps would give me that ability, if I so choose. I checked some info about the amps on-line, but didn't find a clear answer - can anyone confirm or shed light on the ability to bridge the channels? If I don't use both cahnnels of the amp individually, I'm just wondering about the possibility of bridging them for additional headroom

Thanks in advance...