Help Me Build a Rack Rig - UPDATED 12/7/2011

[IndyWS6]

Greetings Again
Well, I fired-up the new rack rig and practiced with a band on Saturday for the first time. I had expected that I would need to tweak the presets that I had been using, but was surprised by the results. Presets that I favored while practicing by myself actually sounded a little thin and bright in the context of a band. I think they will still be useful, but will definitely need some work. What's funny is that a handful of presets that I thought only had an outside chance of working, actually sat better in the mix than the ones I had favored. The biggest change was the amount of gain I thought I needed - I ultimately dialed it back significantly from what I had been using. I think some of the difference can be attributed to volume; when practicing by myself, I rarely have the opportunity to crank it and on Saturday, I needed to get over a fairly loud drummer. Hopefully, after a couple more practice sessions I'll be able to zero-in on the ideal settings for my "go to" presets.

Anyone else run into the same situation?

I still need to do a bunch of setup work on the GCX / GC Pro to put things in a reasonable order. I also need to break out the soldering iron and get the plugs on the cable bundle for my pedal tray. Unfortunately, I'm heading to Korea on Saturday for a week (the 15-hour flight to Seoul is BRUTAL...) so I won't be making much progress for the next several days.

 

[mentoneman]

Greetings Again
Well, I fired-up the new rack rig and practiced with a band on Saturday for the first time. I had expected that I would need to tweak the presets that I had been using, but was surprised by the results. Presets that I favored while practicing by myself actually sounded a little thin and bright in the context of a band. I think they will still be useful, but will definitely need some work. What's funny is that a handful of presets that I thought only had an outside chance of working, actually sat better in the mix than the ones I had favored. The biggest change was the amount of gain I thought I needed - I ultimately dialed it back significantly from what I had been using. I think some of the difference can be attributed to volume; when practicing by myself, I rarely have the opportunity to crank it and on Saturday, I needed to get over a fairly loud drummer. Hopefully, after a couple more practice sessions I'll be able to zero-in on the ideal settings for my "go to" presets.

Anyone else run into the same situation?

welcome to rack ownership
the see saw of tones in solitude versus with band, taking away effects, beefing up the core tone, adding in frequencies that may be a bit harsh sitting in front of your rig by yourself but great in a band with drums, adding back effects but applying them diferently,

in the end a lot is solved by just turning up as loud as you can get away with, and leveling all of your patch volumes to that ceiling. what i've found is much of the tones you strive to create on your own are still there and will still work as expected, but are being masked by the volume of other instruments. and by your listening position from tweak sessions to practice/performance.

 

[IndyWS6]

Volume difinitely seems to be a factor; it's not drastic, but the tone certainly changes as the volume increases. I'm guessing that's because the tube power amp starts to work and "color" the sound. When I'm practicing by myself, I don't crank it and the power amp just coasts. I'll give your suggestion about playing at volume a try but I'm a little hesitant - I'm not the smoothest player and need some work on controlling dynamics, especially on my "clean" presets. Maybe the use of some compression would help...

Your point about listening position is also accurate. I use a bottom 4x12 cabinet so there is little to no projection towards my ears. I'll need to take that into account as I make adjustments to the presets.

Thanks for the response

 

[Zachman]

Volume difinitely seems to be a factor; it's not drastic, but the tone certainly changes as the volume increases. I'm guessing that's because the tube power amp starts to work and "color" the sound. When I'm practicing by myself, I don't crank it and the power amp just coasts. I'll give your suggestion about playing at volume a try but I'm a little hesitant - I'm not the smoothest player and need some work on controlling dynamics, especially on my "clean" presets. Maybe the use of some compression would help...

Your point about listening position is also accurate. I use a bottom 4x12 cabinet so there is little to no projection towards my ears. I'll need to take that into account as I make adjustments to the presets.

Thanks for the response

FWIW, I agree 100% w/ mentoneman... The main thing (For me) with cranking to live levels while programming gear, is regarding not potentially clipping the input of your gear, when you get to the gig.

BTW, WOW-- GREAT progress and work.

 

[IndyWS6]

Volume difinitely seems to be a factor; it's not drastic, but the tone certainly changes as the volume increases. I'm guessing that's because the tube power amp starts to work and "color" the sound. When I'm practicing by myself, I don't crank it and the power amp just coasts. I'll give your suggestion about playing at volume a try but I'm a little hesitant - I'm not the smoothest player and need some work on controlling dynamics, especially on my "clean" presets. Maybe the use of some compression would help...

Your point about listening position is also accurate. I use a bottom 4x12 cabinet so there is little to no projection towards my ears. I'll need to take that into account as I make adjustments to the presets.

Thanks for the response

FWIW, I agree 100% w/ mentoneman... The main thing (For me) with cranking to live levels while programming gear, is regarding not potentially clipping the input of your gear, when you get to the gig.

BTW, WOW-- GREAT progress and work.

Thank you, sir - I always appreciate your comments and posts.

I'm sitting in Korea this week on a business trip, so I haven't been able to make any progress. I'm anxious to get the pedal tray wiring completed and start programming presets and CC functions.

I actually have the rig over at a friends house. He's a drummer and the band he was in called it quits after two years of gigging 2-3 weekends a month. We're trying to get something together to (hopefully) start gigging by February. I haven't played live in in over 20 years, and not much back then, so I'm a little psyched about the prospect. We're giving a lead guitarist, bass player and singer a second audition on Sunday.

 

[Zachman]

Volume difinitely seems to be a factor; it's not drastic, but the tone certainly changes as the volume increases. I'm guessing that's because the tube power amp starts to work and "color" the sound. When I'm practicing by myself, I don't crank it and the power amp just coasts. I'll give your suggestion about playing at volume a try but I'm a little hesitant - I'm not the smoothest player and need some work on controlling dynamics, especially on my "clean" presets. Maybe the use of some compression would help...

Your point about listening position is also accurate. I use a bottom 4x12 cabinet so there is little to no projection towards my ears. I'll need to take that into account as I make adjustments to the presets.

Thanks for the response

FWIW, I agree 100% w/ mentoneman... The main thing (For me) with cranking to live levels while programming gear, is regarding not potentially clipping the input of your gear, when you get to the gig.

BTW, WOW-- GREAT progress and work.

Thank you, sir - I always appreciate your comments and posts.

I'm sitting in Korea this week on a business trip, so I haven't been able to make any progress. I'm anxious to get the pedal tray wiring completed and start programming presets and CC functions.

I actually have the rig over at a friends house. He's a drummer and the band he was in called it quits after two years of gigging 2-3 weekends a month. We're trying to get something together to (hopefully) start gigging by February. I haven't played live in in over 20 years, and not much back then, so I'm a little psyched about the prospect. We're giving a lead guitarist, bass player and singer a second audition on Sunday.

AWESOME!!! Best of luck with the band. Have fun with it (I know you will).

I am flying to LA tonight, to do some session work... be back Sunday night. Enjoy the rest of your trip.

Z

 

[IndyWS6]

Volume difinitely seems to be a factor; it's not drastic, but the tone certainly changes as the volume increases. I'm guessing that's because the tube power amp starts to work and "color" the sound. When I'm practicing by myself, I don't crank it and the power amp just coasts. I'll give your suggestion about playing at volume a try but I'm a little hesitant - I'm not the smoothest player and need some work on controlling dynamics, especially on my "clean" presets. Maybe the use of some compression would help...

Your point about listening position is also accurate. I use a bottom 4x12 cabinet so there is little to no projection towards my ears. I'll need to take that into account as I make adjustments to the presets.

Thanks for the response

FWIW, I agree 100% w/ mentoneman... The main thing (For me) with cranking to live levels while programming gear, is regarding not potentially clipping the input of your gear, when you get to the gig.

BTW, WOW-- GREAT progress and work.

Thank you, sir - I always appreciate your comments and posts.

I'm sitting in Korea this week on a business trip, so I haven't been able to make any progress. I'm anxious to get the pedal tray wiring completed and start programming presets and CC functions.

I actually have the rig over at a friends house. He's a drummer and the band he was in called it quits after two years of gigging 2-3 weekends a month. We're trying to get something together to (hopefully) start gigging by February. I haven't played live in in over 20 years, and not much back then, so I'm a little psyched about the prospect. We're giving a lead guitarist, bass player and singer a second audition on Sunday.

AWESOME!!! Best of luck with the band. Have fun with it (I know you will).

I am flying to LA tonight, to do some session work... be back Sunday night. Enjoy the rest of your trip.

Z

Cool! Have fun and tear it up while you're there

 

[IndyWS6]

Holy Thread Ressurection, Batman

As one of the last posts alluded, I had the rack at our rehearsal space (e.g. my drummer's garage) while we tried to put a band together. Damn if that wasn't a horrendous pain in the ass! It took almost 9 months to finalize a line-up (reliable lead singers and bass players are almost impossible to find in this area) and we've spent the last 2-3 months working on song choices and set lists and amassing equipment in an effort to start gigging. While we were doing that, I took the rack rig back to my studio so that I could focus on all of the editing and programming tasks. As usual, life and work got in the way and I simply couldn't carve out enough time to get the editing and programming done. I wound up just using the stock presets so I would have a way to practice while I was at my studio and the resulting tones were less than inspiring. I actually started to question my choices and the approach I had taken.

I was able to take off work during the week of Thanksgiving and spent that time focusing on creating a baseline of tones to build on. Happily, I now have, more or less, what I sought all along. Essentially, I have a Clean, Crunch, Overdrive and Lead tone for each of three amp models - SLO 100, JCM 800 and Vox AC30. For all of these I have the ability to add/remove stomp box pedals that are connected to the loops of the GCX (and reside on a slide-out shelf), as well as the Eleven Rack's onboard effects. I also have a bank of patches that are used for specific songs. Long story short, it sounds friggin' awesome and the amount of options available from this rig is amazing. I don't have as many options as Zachman, but then again, who does? ( to Zachman). I have used it for three practices now and couldn't be happier. The tones sit well within the mix and the lead tones can get me in front of the mix with ease. And with the Simul 2:90 for power, I have no problems with headroom. Can you say "Arena Loud"?

On a related note, we have been busy booking the local bar scene and have our first official gig on Saturday. It's in a slimy gun & knife bar where the patrons have less than the average number of teeth, but that's OK; we wanted a low-pressure tune-up gig. We're already booked to play some of the nicer local venues starting in January, so this will give us an opportunity to see what works, fix what doesn't and dial-in a completely new PA. I'll try to post some more photos of the rig as it sits in the rehearsal space (it's not a lot different than it was, but some) as well as some gig photos.
Rock On