Herbert gain and output fading out intermidently

  • Thread starter Thread starter RJF
  • Start date Start date
RJF":1hywfklu said:
That makes me want to stay with KT88's. :doh: What about KT77's?
In that case I'd suggest maybe try KT82.5 - best of both worlds? :(

Note on JJ:

JJ Electronic KT77

Factory description: Gold plated control grid for improved fidelity. Special plate alloy to improve plate dissipation. This is a hand aligned Beam power tube resulting in stable performance at higher power levels.

Observation: The JJ KT77 has a slightly deeper low end than the JJ E34L and they have a nice sizzle on the top end without getting brittle and the mid range harmonic structure is very complex. The clean tone is very fat and full and the when driven to saturation the crunch has more of a chunk to it.

The impedance of this tube more closely matches a 6L6GC and is higher than the impedance of an EL34.
 
I still have to decide which new set to get.. El34, E34l, or kt77 as suggested by Diezel.
I like the distortion of the el34 and I also wanted to try the e34l... I fear to be disappointed with the distortion of the kt77... But I also trust the suggestion for reliability of Peter as well... A though decision indeed :P
 
Black Sabbath":2wc7b77x said:
diezel&gas":2wc7b77x said:
my actual tubes EL34 ( 2009 circa ) were like to 52 mA per pair, on the cold side too.
does bias value go down after few years of wear? i raised it a bit to 62.7/8 mA per pair now. i didn't go further because i thought tubes might fail very quickly since they are "old"
My rule of thumb, fundamental heuristic, trial and error, which ever you prefer is to change EL34 guitar amplifier power tubes every 1000 hours or every year - whichever comes first. Your mileage may vary.

RJF":2wc7b77x said:
I remember a few years back, Peter didn't recommend using 88's or 6550's anymore, for whatever reason. But if we were, to set the ma at 50 per pair.

I am going to go 70ma per pair, and I am going to try 2 pairs of KT77's, and one pair of 88's. THen I will try all KT77's. I'll go with what sounds best between those 2.
A quick and general overview of the most common (single) tube types for use in the
Herbert:

EL34/6CA7: Aggressive, slender low end, higher total harmonic distortion.
Recommended bias setting: 30-35mA

5881/6L6: Great tube for clean sounds, good bluesy tones, also has strong bass and excellent clarity.
Recommended bias setting: 25-35mA

6550: Very loud, very good dynamics, strong low end, amazingly percussive.
Recommended bias setting: 40-60mA

KT88/KT100: Similar to 6550, but very punchy with great clarity and warmth - expensive!
Recommended bias setting: 35-50mA

Is this the bias for a single tube, isn't it?
To get the pair bias is it only needed multiply the value by 2? Or there are other calculations to apply?
 
diezel&gas":2z06alhx said:
I still have to decide which new set to get.. El34, E34l, or kt77 as suggested by Diezel.
I like the distortion of the el34 and I also wanted to try the e34l... I fear to be disappointed with the distortion of the kt77... But I also trust the suggestion for reliability of Peter as well... A though decision indeed :P
I truly believe that you're spinning yourself out of complete control at this point over frequent minutia regarding this subject matter.

You speak here of three power tube (PT) types. I will add they are common PT types that are easily accessible by many different vendors worldwide.

There's no need to "fear" anything about the testing and gaining knowledge over a "personal" observation and the outcome of a PT's performance.

More than four (and more) years ago the "best" (recommended) PT for the Diezel Herbert was the Ruby EL34B-STR. This PT is a very fine PT, stands the test of time, performs and sounds fantastic in any Diezel Herbert. I still have five sextets of them and I use them to this day as backups quite frequently when waiting for JJ PT replacements.

If you'd like to spin yourself into more minutiae, then I suggest you begin to furthermore contemplate and ponder the grade or the rating of the PT. As in what may be the most "preferable" plate current (PC) and transconductance (TC - the reciprocal of resistance) of your PT. You may prefer a PC = 51 with a TC = 3550. Or the next day or two you may prefer a PC = 32 with a TC = 2780. Possibly the following week you may think to yourself "self, maybe I was all wrong and I need to re-examine my logic here. I should have initially tried a PC = 41 with a TC = 3169 . . ."

Think about what you're doing. You've a superb guitar amplifier, and in my opinion one of if the finest hand crafted/built guitar amplifiers available for public consumption. It's simple, effective and built to last a lifetime while one hones in and continue to take pleasure in their musical aspirations. However you won't acquire this masterfully engineered piece of guitar equipment without paying for it.

Therefore the obvious next point might be: You've paid dearly for a wonderful piece of guitar equipment that has been designed by a brilliant audio engineer. It has been constructed, tested, deconstructed, rebuilt more times than you or I could possible fathom and now you're wrangling over a $15-20 part! A part that the OEM has spent countless hours scrutinizing and concluding what is best sonically for his creation.

For the amount of $ that was invested in purchasing this fine guitar amplifier one would think that the notion of acquiring three matched sextets of EL34, E34L and KT77 PTs for a conclusive testing purpose wouldn't break the bank! If this simple effort will break the bank, then one is not prepared to invest in a Diezel guitar amplifier.

Quite frankly, unless you're exclusively a studio recording guitarist, then in a live performance the audience (9:10) won't notice any difference relating to what has been discussed here.

There's an old wise Spanish axiom that goes "El tesoro de un hombre es la basura de otro hombre".
diezel&gas":2z06alhx said:
Is this the bias for a single tube, isn't it?
To get the pair bias is it only needed multiply the value by 2? Or there are other calculations to apply?
Comprehension my friend . . .

Black Sabbath":2z06alhx said:
A quick and general overview of the most common (single) tube types for use in the Herbert:
I should have included the adjective "power" after the adjective "single" and before the noun "tube" to be precise.

Que tengan todos un buen dia.
 
Yo! I think you have had a wrong conclusion... Keep it calm my friend. You take the matter too seriously, see the smiles here and there?
questions have the purpose to see other point of views, not to see written the one and only truth.
Ps: I saw the word "single" anyway, you know... I asked again just to be sure, amazed after reading 50mA for the single kt88 tube :)
then it is not I don't want to experiment...simply, I care of my amp and if the person who built it suggests not to use anymore a certain tube.. I try to follow his advice... Even if with el34 I've never had a single problem !
I read this forum for years, I know initially the el34 was used and suggested by Peter, in fact that tube is still in my amp. But if experience say not to buy that tube today for some reason, I can think a little more just before to get what I like only because I like it.
Sometime I ask to have other opinions too, not only because I don't know anything.
The amp is a great amp, and is enjoyable for everyone even without being an audio engineer ;)
Questions doesn't make a person stupid ;)
Answers...sometimes :P kidding :lol: :LOL:



Cheers!
 
diezel&gas":jumz1z1j said:
Yo! I think you have had a wrong conclusion... Keep it calm my friend. You take the matter too seriously, see the smiles here and there? Cheers!
I believe it is you that are taking this basic subject matter too seriously. And trust me, "calm" is my middle name.

Knock yourself out . . . :student:
 
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate a lot you're help and infos provided. By the way, when you find a question that for your ears seems to be too dumb, simply skip it ;)
There's no need to act as a teacher annoyed by simple questions made ( that can help other ppl as well ). Others may simply reply solving the problem or a simple doubt.
My 2 cents


What about first and last? Lol
 
eh…yes…it's not written if and when we must shut off the amp….for example.
Neither it is written to which kind of tube these values apply…

;)

I'm a fervent believer that there are no dumb questions…except in the Weschler test :D
 
docben":3vucnexi said:
eh…yes…it's not written if and when we must shut off the amp….for example.
Neither it is written to which kind of tube these values apply…

;)

I'm a fervent believer that there are no dumb questions…except in the Weschler test :D
The only specific that you may have overlooked here is that the Wechsler test (WAIS) was explicitly invented as a tool to analyze the astuteness of adult creatures. ;)

Many things may not be written, however they do exist. :student:
 
Black Sabbath":2plmo0qj said:
The only specific that you may have overlooked here is that the Wechsler test (WAIS) was explicitly invented as a tool to analyze the astuteness of adult creatures. ;):

I wouldn't have mentioned WAIS if I didn't know what it was. ;)
End of this off topic subject ;)


:cheers:
 
docben":1ekzjide said:
I wouldn't have mentioned WAIS if I didn't know what it was. ;)
End of this off topic subject ;)


:cheers:
The OP or your hijack? :student:

I suppose you wouldn't have had to mention this if you wouldn't have had to mention that, would you?

BTW – I'm a connoisseur of Belgium waffles.
 
I'm not sure that I can follow your way of thinking, can I ?

You seem to have a lot of knowledge...I bet you've scored high on the WAIS.

Who are you ?
 
docben":2cnc7obw said:
I'm not sure that I can follow your way of thinking, can I ?

You seem to have a lot of knowledge...I bet you've scored high on the WAIS.

Who are you ?
To answer your question; in all probability no and more than likely you would not be in the minority.

I don't know what you're implying when you write "you seem . . ." The "WAIS" I was referring to is "Wide Area Information Servers". If you'd like to start a different thread and begin a discourse on distributed virtual computing systems (the private/public cloud) then you would be correct. You see the "WAIS" I was referring to is different. {WAIS} can define 48 distinguishable objects as in: n(n-1)! where 0! = 1

By professional trade I'm a scientist and a storage area network engineer. Outside of all that mishmash I'm a professional music hobbyist and by disposition a musician.
 
Would you guys can this crap? This thread is about tubes. Speaking of which, my KT77's should hopefully be arriving today.
 
RJF":2bz3473x said:
Would you guys can this crap? This thread is about tubes. Speaking of which, my KT77's should hopefully be arriving today.
:rock: :lol: :LOL: :thumbsup:

and i finally decided, let's go for the KT77! :rock:
let us know how they sound and how do you like them! ;)
 
whatta bunch of shit
firkin copy paste know it all... YKWITA.....
 
RJF":nppfxhgs said:
Would you guys can this crap? This thread is about tubes. Speaking of which, my KT77's should hopefully be arriving today.
Good deal. You'll be happy with them. JJ makes very good power tubes (whichever you decide on for Herbert) it's all a matter of personal taste in the end. I've yet to find any of the JJ preamp tubes better sounding than a standard Chinese 9th gen 12AX7A.

And for the record, I posted as much factual transparent information regarding this thread as possible. I didn't summon the troglodyte to emerge from its cave somewhere in Belgium after nearly 16 months of silence on this board to hijack your thread and start a WAIS discussion. I sent him (or her) a PM to clarify this.

And Dave to you, good luck!
 
V1 is the preamp tube all the way to the left above ch1, right?

Got the '77's in and biased them between 67-70ma. Amp seems a little bit more responsive than before, and a little less of the glassy highs 88's are known for. Lost a touch of the punchy low end though. Dynamics seems a little better though.

I like them. They don't sound like an EL34 to me, which makes me happy. I did not like Winged C 34's in my Herbert.
 
Back
Top