Herbert Mini

[Wizard of Ozz]

Isnt that what D-Moll is?

No.

From the product section of diezelamplification.com: “D-Moll: Small box – but big sound. Herberts little brother.”

More so in description of features than in true tone for tone sounds. More like cousins if you ask me. Play them side by side, then decide. Don't take my word for it... ask LunatiBSW (posted above) who traded his DMoll, which he had for sometime, in for the Herbert... if they sound alike.

 

[SavageRiffer]

I understand what OP wants but making half a amp doesnt result in half the price, think more towords 80%.
People will then always buy the full Herbert 100%.

Just save and wait, i did to. Its worth it.

Based on what logic though? The pervasive trend around the globe is smaller, more affordable amps and home recording. If that's the trend cited by countless publications, then how would the logic be that people would more likely spend twice as much for a much larger more powerful amp. The truth is, few musicians need even 50 watts. I don't know what Diezel sales figures are, but the D-Moll and Paul by all accounts are very popular. The reason they're popular is they are smaller and still feature rich. In one of the Peter & Peter videos, Stapfer said that people wanted the MIDI and other features in a smaller and versatile amp, and that's why they created the D-Moll.

Moreover, I have read talk on this very forum for quite some time regarding a smaller amp. I suspect that Diezel was still making its way into the mainstream amp market which is why it hasn't yet materialized. However, now that Diezel has been carried by large corporations like Musicians Friend for a long time, it's probable that they'll start tapping into the mainstream market. The Paul seems like a step in that direction as it's a 45w, classically voiced amp aimed at a wider market, or like Peter Stapfer said, he can see it in a lot of blues and classic rock clubs.

When I think of Diezel minis, I think of how successful the Bogner Atma and Mark V minis are. I think it would be a mistake not to tap into that market. For all we know, Diezel could already have a few prototypes.

Like I said, if Diezel made a 25w mini version of all their larger amps, I'd buy them all. It's hard to imagine a Diezel player who wouldn't want one.

There's a whole lotta supposition, juxtaposition, pontification, and hypothetical thought in this post. And as I mentioned earlier... smaller amps change the voicing, tone, and magic found in the original full-sized amps. Just because a lot of people eat at McDonalds doesn't mean it's quality food. And not every company is out to make every cent possible from potential customers, at the cost of quality, tone and reputation. Some are concerned about quality, tone, reputation and great service... and not mass marketing.

That said... get a VH4 pedal and run it into a clean channel of 1X12 combo and enjoy.

There's not, and you missed my point. I was just explaining the logic. I said very clearly that I don't have the data, just putting some logic to the trend. You're talking about quality and all that, but that's not even on point because it has nothing to do with it. I even said that great quality is assumed when I stated that it would "be badass if Diezel made it."

"Get a pedal and plug into a clean amp...." Come on man, you act like a mini Diezel is a stupid idea. I'm smart enough to know it's not a stupid idea, and I'll bet there are a ton of people who would agree.

Here's what you are missing:

1. Quality. Product quality is directly tied to the price. You pay for what you get. You're not going to boil down a $4000 amp into a $2000 mini-amp... irregardless of output, smaller power section or scaling down features. It will never happen. The final product will suffer and many builders are not okay with it... or want to follow market trends like you mention. Also in the case of the MKV, it costs a lot less than the Herbert to begin with. The Atma is it's own amp... its not a scaled down model of a larger amp. Bad example. The Paul and DMoll are the scaled down models... and there isn't a huge price differential with the 100W offerings.

2. Performance. The sound from any 25W or lower amp will be drastically different than a 100W amp. Many builders, buyers, and others hear the difference an will not want to settle for less. Take the Soldano SLO for example. Soldano has built and billed 5-6 amps over the years as having the same "overdrive sound as the SLO... or the exact same lead channel as the SLO"... The Hot Rod, Avenger, Astroverb et al. Guess what? None of them sound, feel, or perform like the SLO.

3. Performance is tied to quality and price. You remind me of a guy walking in to a Ferrari dealer asking why the cars cost so much? You'll say I can buy 4 Hondas for the price of 1 Ferrari, that run just as good as these. When will Ferrari build a reasonably priced budget compact model for daily driving? That's what the majority of car buyers want. Guess what... it won't happen.

Well every manufacturer who produces mini version of their amp like Bogner pretty much proves your #1 logic wrong. They CAN and DO produce equally good products at a much lower price. I already explained that no one expects the minis to sound exactly like the bigger brothers, but they're usually close enough, so #2 is pointless. As for #3, how you somehow equate the price of Ferraris to this topic makes no sense at all. A lot of the extra cost of amps is import/export. In England, Marshalls don't cost as much as they do here. Bogners cost twice as much in England.

You seem to casually ignore the facts I presented:

1. Lots of companies are making high-quality minis
2. Minis are very popular
3. Minis are a pervasive trend
4. Minis sound damned good
5. Minis are quite loud for their size
6. Minis are typically feature rich; having features such as reverb and emulated output
7. Minis cost substantially less than their full-sized counterparts

If people had your attitude, no one would ever achieve anything. They would just say "No, it's not possible" or write it off as ridiculous. I tell you this: Diezel could and should cash in on the mini market and this is the perfect time to do it. If you want to make analogies, then you're acting like people should only pay the price of climbing Mt. Everest because that's the grandest mountain of all. Nevermind climbing another mountain because with your logic, it won't be as exhilarating and would still cost as much as an Everest expedition.

Come on man. You come along and try to shut the door on a pervasive idea many builders have already capitalized on, then you try to say I'm the one supposing, juxtaposing, pontificating, etc. Everyone should listen to you then. "Yeah! It's a preposterous idea. How foolish to think one can do such a thing." Please, spare me the weak argument.

 

[danburton]

Isnt that what D-Moll is?

No.

From the product section of diezelamplification.com: “D-Moll: Small box – but big sound. Herberts little brother.”

More so in description of features than in true tone for tone sounds. More like cousins if you ask me. Play them side by side, then decide. Don't take my word for it... ask LunatiBSW (posted above) who traded his DMoll, which he had for sometime, in for the Herbert... if they sound alike.

I've actually invited LunatiBSW to jam - between the two of us, we have a number of amps that we'd love to hear side by side. To my ear, D-Moll was pretty similar to Herbert with the obvious difference in power/headroom.

 

[LunatiBSW]

Isnt that what D-Moll is?

No.

From the product section of diezelamplification.com: “D-Moll: Small box – but big sound. Herberts little brother.”

More so in description of features than in true tone for tone sounds. More like cousins if you ask me. Play them side by side, then decide. Don't take my word for it... ask LunatiBSW (posted above) who traded his DMoll, which he had for sometime, in for the Herbert... if they sound alike.

I've actually invited LunatiBSW to jam - between the two of us, we have a number of amps that we'd love to hear side by side. To my ear, D-Moll was pretty similar to Herbert with the obvious difference in power/headroom.

Well get to the bottom of this. Hahaha. Me and Dave will do some good a/b between the two. I'll bring the Herbert and he has his dmoll. I personally find them related but it was eye opening to me, when I played them side by side at platinum room in Dallas through the same cab. I'm a complete metal head though. If that makes any difference.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Isnt that what D-Moll is?

No.

From the product section of diezelamplification.com: “D-Moll: Small box – but big sound. Herberts little brother.”

More so in description of features than in true tone for tone sounds. More like cousins if you ask me. Play them side by side, then decide. Don't take my word for it... ask LunatiBSW (posted above) who traded his DMoll, which he had for sometime, in for the Herbert... if they sound alike.

I've actually invited LunatiBSW to jam - between the two of us, we have a number of amps that we'd love to hear side by side. To my ear, D-Moll was pretty similar to Herbert with the obvious difference in power/headroom.

Well get to the bottom of this. Hahaha. Me and Dave will do some good a/b between the two. I'll bring the Herbert and he has his dmoll. I personally find them related but it was eye opening to me, when I played them side by side at platinum room in Dallas through the same cab. I'm a complete metal head though. If that makes any difference.

Cool. Maybe make some clips if possible.

My idea of metal is Amon Amarth, Arch Enemy, CoB, InFlames... not Dokken, Ratt, EVH... which are cool bands... but not what I'm using my Herbert for lol.

 

[SavageRiffer]

Isnt that what D-Moll is?

No.

From the product section of diezelamplification.com: “D-Moll: Small box – but big sound. Herberts little brother.”

More so in description of features than in true tone for tone sounds. More like cousins if you ask me. Play them side by side, then decide. Don't take my word for it... ask LunatiBSW (posted above) who traded his DMoll, which he had for sometime, in for the Herbert... if they sound alike.

I've actually invited LunatiBSW to jam - between the two of us, we have a number of amps that we'd love to hear side by side. To my ear, D-Moll was pretty similar to Herbert with the obvious difference in power/headroom.

Well get to the bottom of this. Hahaha. Me and Dave will do some good a/b between the two. I'll bring the Herbert and he has his dmoll. I personally find them related but it was eye opening to me, when I played them side by side at platinum room in Dallas through the same cab. I'm a complete metal head though. If that makes any difference.

Cool. Maybe make some clips if possible.

My idea of metal is Amon Amarth, Arch Enemy, CoB, InFlames... not Dokken, Ratt, EVH... which are cool bands... but not what I'm using my Herbert for lol.

At least we agree a lot on metal.

 

[RJF]

Diezel is already making a number of "small" amps. The Paul and Big Max are low wattage, smaller chassis amps. The Dmoll is another small chassi'd amp that sounds a lot like a Herbert. Yes, it's 100w. Big deal, in today's standards that is not big at all. A 100w tube amp is like a Chevy pickup with a 350 in it, or a 5.3.

I don't know about a Diezel lunch box tiny 20w amp, with Diezel so much of it's tone is built around using a big clean power section capable of delivering that low end and hi fi sound. But with a really small amp already in the lineup like the Big Max and even the Paul, I doubt they would sell well with the type of crowd buying Diezels.

 

[SavageRiffer]

Diezel is already making a number of "small" amps. The Paul and Big Max are low wattage, smaller chassis amps. The Dmoll is another small chassi'd amp that sounds a lot like a Herbert. Yes, it's 100w. Big deal, in today's standards that is not big at all. A 100w tube amp is like a Chevy pickup with a 350 in it, or a 5.3.

I don't know about a Diezel lunch box tiny 20w amp, with Diezel so much of it's tone is built around using a big clean power section capable of delivering that low end and hi fi sound. But with a really small amp already in the lineup like the Big Max and even the Paul, I doubt they would sell well with the type of crowd buying Diezels.

Have you played a D-Moll or Paul? They're freaking loud. They're not small either. They're not as wide as the Herbert or Hagen from the front, but wider from the sides. They are both high-powered amps. The Paul is 45w, so according to your logic, it couldn't possibly sound as good, but it does. It sounds outstanding and all Diezel tone man.

Didn't Peter post something a few times about a 20w or 25w amp? I think your perception of the Diezel sound is your perception. I think Diezel does the high powered amp thing among the best of the best, but what I appreciate about Diezel amps is the quality of their high gain circuits and their clean tones. Diezels are punchy with lots of low end, maybe too much low end for me. However, they should be able to make a smaller amp and still be punchy, resonant, and with all the Diezel flavor.

Mike Soldano made the Hot Rod 25 which uses 5881/6L6 tubes with full size transformers and rated at 25 watts. That little amp outputs monster tone and it's a lunchbox sized amp. I'm sorry, but you're wrong. If Soldano and others can do it, then Diezel can. Fargen makes a 25w Mini Plex. It's not lunchbox sized, but it's lower powered and sounds as good as the higher powered heads. If Fargen can do it then Diezel can.

 

[Vin Diezel]

Nobody has built a small amp that Sounds like the real deal. If peter does it., he Is the First. Scott henderson was looking for a small amp with a big Sound for quite some time . He simply gave up after a while.

 

[SavageRiffer]

Nobody has built a small amp that Sounds like the real deal. If peter does it., he Is the First. Scott henderson was looking for a small amp with a big Sound for quite some time . He simply gave up after a while.

You've never tried a Soldano Hot Rod 25 or Marshall 2525 then. Big sounds, small amp heads.

 

[danburton]

Nobody has built a small amp that Sounds like the real deal. If peter does it., he Is the First. Scott henderson was looking for a small amp with a big Sound for quite some time . He simply gave up after a while.

You've never tried a Soldano Hot Rod 25 or Marshall 2525 then. Big sounds, small amp heads.

I own both of those & I think I disagree with your premise (or at least, what I think I understand your premise to be). They both sound authentic at low volumes (along with the mini Friedman, Boogie, and others Ive had) and mic up well to print nicely to a DAW at bedroom volumes. But neither one captures the glory of its big brother.

Where the big amps pull away from the little ones is when you crank it up and stand across from it. My HR25 sounds kind of like my SLO, but trust me, nobody would mistake which was which if we did a pepsi challenge (blindfold taste test, for those who did not grow up in the US in the 80's) with both amps in the room. It isnt just louder, it's bigger and richer. I dont have a Jubilee reissue but I do have a number of 100 watt marshalls (and clones) and its kinda the same.

You could totally do a recording session and get an authentic Soldano tone with the HR25, and if your band isnt too loud (or mics guitars) you could jam with your buddies but its not the aural bliss that only comes with plugging into the 100 watt SLO and getting it up to about 4.5 (where it opens up).

 

[SavageRiffer]

Nobody has built a small amp that Sounds like the real deal. If peter does it., he Is the First. Scott henderson was looking for a small amp with a big Sound for quite some time . He simply gave up after a while.

You've never tried a Soldano Hot Rod 25 or Marshall 2525 then. Big sounds, small amp heads.

I own both of those & I think I disagree with your premise (or at least, what I think I understand your premise to be). They both sound authentic at low volumes (along with the mini Friedman, Boogie, and others Ive had) and mic up well to print nicely to a DAW at bedroom volumes. But neither one captures the glory of its big brother.

Where the big amps pull away from the little ones is when you crank it up and stand across from it. My HR25 sounds kind of like my SLO, but trust me, nobody would mistake which was which if we did a pepsi challenge (blindfold taste test, for those who did not grow up in the US in the 80's) with both amps in the room. It isnt just louder, it's bigger and richer. I dont have a Jubilee reissue but I do have a number of 100 watt marshalls (and clones) and its kinda the same.

You could totally do a recording session and get an authentic Soldano tone with the HR25, and if your band isnt too loud (or mics guitars) you could jam with your buddies but its not the aural bliss that only comes with plugging into the 100 watt SLO and getting it up to about 4.5 (where it opens up).

I owned both an HR-25 and a 2012 SLO. Whether it captures the essence of the bigger amp is subjective, but then again, how often do mortals get to crank up an SLO to enjoy all of it's glory? Come on man, I never said they were exact duplicates. There's no denying that they do sound awesome and carry all of the other aforementioned benefits. Anyone who disagrees with that premise is just disagreeing to disagree.

 

[danburton]

Nobody has built a small amp that Sounds like the real deal. If peter does it., he Is the First. Scott henderson was looking for a small amp with a big Sound for quite some time . He simply gave up after a while.

You've never tried a Soldano Hot Rod 25 or Marshall 2525 then. Big sounds, small amp heads.

I own both of those & I think I disagree with your premise (or at least, what I think I understand your premise to be). They both sound authentic at low volumes (along with the mini Friedman, Boogie, and others Ive had) and mic up well to print nicely to a DAW at bedroom volumes. But neither one captures the glory of its big brother.

Where the big amps pull away from the little ones is when you crank it up and stand across from it. My HR25 sounds kind of like my SLO, but trust me, nobody would mistake which was which if we did a pepsi challenge (blindfold taste test, for those who did not grow up in the US in the 80's) with both amps in the room. It isnt just louder, it's bigger and richer. I dont have a Jubilee reissue but I do have a number of 100 watt marshalls (and clones) and its kinda the same.

You could totally do a recording session and get an authentic Soldano tone with the HR25, and if your band isnt too loud (or mics guitars) you could jam with your buddies but its not the aural bliss that only comes with plugging into the 100 watt SLO and getting it up to about 4.5 (where it opens up).

I owned both an HR-25 and a 2012 SLO. Whether it captures the essence of the bigger amp is subjective, but then again, how often do mortals get to crank up an SLO to enjoy all of it's glory? Come on man, I never said they were exact duplicates. There's no denying that they do sound awesome and carry all of the other aforementioned benefits. Anyone who disagrees with that premise is just disagreeing to disagree.

The HR25 sounds fantastic - I am one of its biggest fans. I never said the lunchbox style amps dont sound awesome. Ive got a bunch of them (my lunchbox collection was featured on "Amp Porn" last Fall) and think they sound great. I just said they dont sound "big". They dont.

Otherwise I agree 100% - getting to crank up an SLO is a rare privilege and nobody said the HR25 was an exact duplicate.

 

[SavageRiffer]

Nobody has built a small amp that Sounds like the real deal. If peter does it., he Is the First. Scott henderson was looking for a small amp with a big Sound for quite some time . He simply gave up after a while.

You've never tried a Soldano Hot Rod 25 or Marshall 2525 then. Big sounds, small amp heads.

I own both of those & I think I disagree with your premise (or at least, what I think I understand your premise to be). They both sound authentic at low volumes (along with the mini Friedman, Boogie, and others Ive had) and mic up well to print nicely to a DAW at bedroom volumes. But neither one captures the glory of its big brother.

Where the big amps pull away from the little ones is when you crank it up and stand across from it. My HR25 sounds kind of like my SLO, but trust me, nobody would mistake which was which if we did a pepsi challenge (blindfold taste test, for those who did not grow up in the US in the 80's) with both amps in the room. It isnt just louder, it's bigger and richer. I dont have a Jubilee reissue but I do have a number of 100 watt marshalls (and clones) and its kinda the same.

You could totally do a recording session and get an authentic Soldano tone with the HR25, and if your band isnt too loud (or mics guitars) you could jam with your buddies but its not the aural bliss that only comes with plugging into the 100 watt SLO and getting it up to about 4.5 (where it opens up).

I owned both an HR-25 and a 2012 SLO. Whether it captures the essence of the bigger amp is subjective, but then again, how often do mortals get to crank up an SLO to enjoy all of it's glory? Come on man, I never said they were exact duplicates. There's no denying that they do sound awesome and carry all of the other aforementioned benefits. Anyone who disagrees with that premise is just disagreeing to disagree.

The HR25 sounds fantastic - I am one of its biggest fans. I never said the lunchbox style amps dont sound awesome. Ive got a bunch of them (my lunchbox collection was featured on "Amp Porn" last Fall) and think they sound great. I just said they dont sound "big". They dont.

Otherwise I agree 100% - getting to crank up an SLO is a rare privilege and nobody said the HR25 was an exact duplicate.

Well, to digress a bit, have you tried tube swapping in your HR-25 yet? I've done extensive tube swapping and found it to be pretty effective.

 

[Vin Diezel]

Imho the fryette recording amp Makes Sense if IT Sounds as good as the big ones AT very low Volume. 1 Watt. Bildung an amp With 20 watts and the big transformers is completely useless too me. Such an amp is as heavy, expensive and loud as the real Deal.

 

[Vin Diezel]

Even a 5 Watt am is almOst as loud as a 100 watter if you use overdrive. IT is just middy and farty nur loud as hell.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Well, to digress a bit, have you tried tube swapping in your HR-25 yet? I've done extensive tube swapping and found it to be pretty effective.

I love it. 5 different people in this thread have tried to explain the differences and why a mini-Herbert will not sound the same and just flat-out isn't feasible...

 

[SavageRiffer]

Well, to digress a bit, have you tried tube swapping in your HR-25 yet? I've done extensive tube swapping and found it to be pretty effective.

I love it. 5 different people in this thread have tried to explain the differences and why a mini-Herbert will not sound the same and just flat-out isn't feasible...

I clearly stated that It wouldn't sound exactly the same. Funny how you continue on ignoring all the facts I laid out. I even posted pictures of the fucking gear. You're narrow-minded, unimaginative, and your reading comprehension is evidently lacking.

 

[Crunchtime]

I really don't get the D-Moll mini thing. It is a 100 watt amp loaded with 4 KT77 and has massive volume on tap. It is also like 23" long. I guess my 19" Mesa Mark III must be a micro amp.

 

[Rdodson]

I for one think the Soldano HR25 is killer. Had an opportunity to get one in Clapton grey with matching 2x12 cab and I should have. Obviously not exactly an SLO, but pretty dang good.

I'd love to see a Hagen mini. I'd be all over that. I don't know if it is feasible but I'd enjoy the effort!