Herbert or VH4

[FourT6and2]

I would think since the other guitarist in your band has a VH4 already that the Herbert would be a great compliment to that, rather than both of you getting almost identical sounds. Yes the 2 VH4's could be dialed in differently enough to give you some identity, but starting off with a completely different voice altogether and blending them into sonic bliss seems the smarter path for live dynamic and studio diversity both.

That's my take on it anyway.

I don't think I'd want two guitarists in a band both playing Diezel amps in general. I think Diezel plus either Marshall or Bogner go together really well. It also depends on the specific music being played and the group dynamic. There needs to be space to begin with in order to fill it with something. While the Herbert and the VH4 are different amps, they are still voiced too similar (for my taste) to run at the same time by two people in a band. I'd rather have another amp that takes up a completely different part of the tonal spectrum.

 

[Bato]

Oh thank you Obi.

I took a look at your hp. If i´d have to choose i would go with Herbert. But so many heavy bands play the VH4 too.

Lass dich einfach von der Macht führen.

 

[Obiwan]

@swampdonkey

yes, this is indeed a good point I also have been thinking about, if having the same brand, then two different types of amp would complement each other better.

@FourT6and2

of course also you have a good point but:

1. I have a specific sound in my head and think only Diezel can deliver it
2. I need also very good cleans with tons of headroom, I never had the luck to play Bogner but I think also under this aspect only Diezel can guarantee enough quality in distortion AND clean.
3. The other guitar player in my band plays a 7string Ibanez, I play an 8string Blackmachine, I think this could be enough to give us two different sound identities.

However, I understand your concern which is in a way also mine.


@Bato

ja, die Macht wird mir den Weg zeigen, ehrlich gesagt ist es das angenehmste Dilemma das ich je hatte

 

[DvE]

I think for an 8 string black machine the Herbert would be the better choice, because more wattage can help you to articulate the deep sound better

I dont like the sound of 7 and 8 strings, not my business - normal guitars in drop C are nice, but lower is the bass players region imo.

We play with 2 guitarrists in our band - Herbert and Marhall complement each other very well

 

[SwampDonkey]

I don't think I'd want two guitarists in a band both playing Diezel amps in general. I think Diezel plus either Marshall or Bogner go together really well. It also depends on the specific music being played and the group dynamic. There needs to be space to begin with in order to fill it with something. While the Herbert and the VH4 are different amps, they are still voiced too similar (for my taste) to run at the same time by two people in a band. I'd rather have another amp that takes up a completely different part of the tonal spectrum.

I disagree that the Herbert and VH4 are that close in sound, not to be argumentative.

If my band had a second guitarist, I would hope he would have gear that would compliment my sound very well, and if not I would push him toward a VH4 just to have a very different sonic footprint that would allow us to both stand out, but still retain a familiar overall sound to what we have worked to achieve over the past few years,

If a band has any kind of clean dynamic, I don't see a Bogner standing up to the challenge. Also in my opinion Marshall amps are not nearly as diverse in their capabilities as the 2 amps the OP is considering. The studio possibilities alone with having both those amps at his disposal will make it a brilliant choice, when you consider just how many sounds both the VH4 and the Herbert are capable of producing with minimal effort to dial them up. When considering the live dynamic, it will sound IMMENSE. The Herbert is not as mid focused as the VH4, and a bit looser and fatter on the bottom end. The differences in the tonal spectrum are obvious to my ears, and I have no doubt it will sound magical once he fires up the Herbert with his bandmates this weekend.

 

[PaulyPanacea]

just for yucks...and to throw my 2 cents in...i ran my Herbert & VH4 in tandem @ a few of my shows. They sounded totally different when i listened back to the recording. its all in the way ya use it. Many possibilities from different tubes, cabinets, speakers, EQ, etc. I think either way you will be golden...but playing an 8 string...you may want to spend a lil more time with Herbie. May be better suited for your tastes!!

 

[FourT6and2]

I don't think I'd want two guitarists in a band both playing Diezel amps in general. I think Diezel plus either Marshall or Bogner go together really well. It also depends on the specific music being played and the group dynamic. There needs to be space to begin with in order to fill it with something. While the Herbert and the VH4 are different amps, they are still voiced too similar (for my taste) to run at the same time by two people in a band. I'd rather have another amp that takes up a completely different part of the tonal spectrum.

I disagree that the Herbert and VH4 are that close in sound, not to be argumentative.

If my band had a second guitarist, I would hope he would have gear that would compliment my sound very well, and if not I would push him toward a VH4 just to have a very different sonic footprint that would allow us to both stand out, but still retain a familiar overall sound to what we have worked to achieve over the past few years,

If a band has any kind of clean dynamic, I don't see a Bogner standing up to the challenge. Also in my opinion Marshall amps are not nearly as diverse in their capabilities as the 2 amps the OP is considering. The studio possibilities alone with having both those amps at his disposal will make it a brilliant choice, when you consider just how many sounds both the VH4 and the Herbert are capable of producing with minimal effort to dial them up. When considering the live dynamic, it will sound IMMENSE. The Herbert is not as mid focused as the VH4, and a bit looser and fatter on the bottom end. The differences in the tonal spectrum are obvious to my ears, and I have no doubt it will sound magical once he fires up the Herbert with his bandmates this weekend.

All valid points. Like I said, though... it comes down to the sound the guitarist(s) want and the group dynamic of how each instrument fills the space.

 

[Ventura]

Just get both up to the 3 o'clock regions on the MV and see which one melts your face and sounds good doing it. I'm only going to say, at THIS stage of the thread - I've read "ultra good cleans with mega headroom" and 7 and 8 string ax's. Perhaps, just a guess, but perhaps, this is Herbert material. And another cat mentioned Bogner - the Bogner Uberschall TJ with the clean mod on the 1st channel could also be considered, but Papa won't like me saying that (I do play an Uber TJ and it rocks HARD - but seriously, the VH4S I have ALWAYS sounds like MY amp when I come back to it).

Play it...play it loud...play it deep and low...AND TELL US WHAT YA THINK!!!!

Peace Braddah
V.

 

[Obiwan]

Sorry to post dumb noob questions, but can anyone explain me what "compression"means? What does it describe? I heard about the compression in ch3 of the VH4 and really can't make out what is meant by.

Thanks



@Peter,

please tell me what noodles you mean, I am about to write down a chocolate shopping list for your package

 

[FourT6and2]

Sorry to post dumb noob questions, but can anyone explain me what "compression"means? What does it describe? I heard about the compression in ch3 of the VH4 and really can't make out what is meant by.

Thanks



@Peter,

please tell me what noodles you mean, I am about to write down a chocolate shopping list for your package

Normally, compression refers to the effect where the highest and lowest points of a sound wave are limited and somewhat "squashed" or "compressed."

I think this video may help? http://www.musicradar.com/tuition/guita ... ion-156660

The tone is somewhat "thin" in a way. It's literally been compressed like a vice or that scene from star wars where they're all in that garbage pit.

Think of a sine wave:

Compression reduces the amplitude of the wave both in the negative and the positive. Effectively reducing the difference in volume between the louder and softer parts of the signal.

Amps that, typically, are thought of as not being compressed would be like a cranked Marshall Plexi or Superlead or a cranked Fender Bassman or even a Vox. For the ultimate in super compressed tone, think of a Boss Metalzone pedal or a Line 6 amp on the "insane" mode with the gain cranked, mids at 0 and bass/treble cranked. The Diezel VH4, while not being so dramatically compressed as those, is still much more compressed than an old, cranked up, non-master volume Marshall. This gives VH4, Channel 3 a very unique and dynamic attack (the speed at which the notes begin and decay as you play them).

Do a google search on Compression and Attack to find out more.

 

[Obiwan]

mhhh I think I understood, thank you very much for your very helpful explanation!

 

[Little B]

Either one you cant go wrong with...I personally like a vh4 w/ 88's or 6550's, and a herbert with all 34's....link em up together and you got all the bases covered!

 

[Obiwan]

Hello everyone,

So over the weekend I played until my fingers bled, I was very surprised about my impressions and at first I didn't really wanted to accept what I was hearing, this is how it was:

I played the VH4 and the Herbert over a Diezel fl V30 cab and found the Herbert fitting more to my style, both being however amazing amps. The Herbert was a bit too harsh and bassy though, this being probably due to the combination of the V30 speakers with the Lundgren M8 pups of my Blackmachine.

But what really surprised me was the cab. Remember I only own a 4x12 Marshall 1960A. I also tried my Engl Savage over the Diezel cab and this is what really got me! It is so damn true that a cab can make a huge difference! My amp came to life for the first time in all the years I have been owning it! It was as suddenly the amp would have been freed from a mountain of cotton under which it has been lying during all the time! The Engl now sounded clear, huge and powerful, simply amazing!

Recapitulation: I can not afford both Herbert and cab simultaneously. The Herbert sounded a little bit too harsh and bassy with the V30, so according to what I read most probably the fl version with the G12K100 would be the way to go. The Herbert together with the Marshall cab is a pure and senseless waste of funds and resources imho, like driving a Lamborghini with wheels of a skate board. The Marshall cab simply is by far the weakest part of my rig.

So I am now ordering a 4x12 fl cab with G12K100 speakers, which is now clearly the most important improvement to my equipment, especially as we enter the studio in March. When there will be again enough funds on my account I will then purchase the Herbert.

I am really amazed and very surprised as I was already prepared to purchase an amp, but getting a decent cab (in perspective of buying the Herbert on a later stage) will be the first step.

Thanks to all of you for all the kind advice and help so far!

 

[Jonny333]

Cool man, glad you got something good out of the experience! (I said you'ld prefer the Herby )

 

[King Crimson]

"squashed" or "compressed."

I think he wanted an explanation about what seems to be the compression within the channel circuit.

What you have described is the "effect" outside of the amps circuitry. In your example the FX/Sustainer which is completely different. A good example would be Robin Trower. In Robin's early career he used quite often a compression/sustainer to add a smooth sustain to his solos without any variance in the tone, but without fine tuning the external device would cause some limitation to accent and attack.

As far as what seems to be a more compressed sound between for instance CH2 to CH 3 of Herbert, Peter would be able to clarify what it is better than I.

Also, I would suggest not to dime the gain on either channels if you want a more open, natural sound eminence.

 

[FourT6and2]

"squashed" or "compressed."

I think he wanted an explanation about what seems to be the compression within the channel circuit.

What you have described is the "effect" outside of the amps circuitry. In your example the FX/Sustainer which is completely different. A good example would be Robin Trower. In Robin's early career he used quite often a compression/sustainer to add a smooth sustain to his solos without any variance in the tone, but without fine tuning the external device would cause some limitation to accent and attack.

As far as what seems to be a more compressed sound between for instance CH2 to CH 3 of Herbert, Peter would be able to clarify what it is better than I.

Also, I would suggest not to dime the gain on either channels if you want a more open, natural sound eminence.

Compression is still compression, regardless of where it comes from (the amp or a pedal). To me, the guy's question was "what is compression... what's it sound like, how does it work?" i.e. a compressed sound vs. a non-compressed sound, not why channel 3 is more compressed than channel 2. He was asking about the comment people always make about VH4 sounding "compressed." But, maybe I read the question wrong?

Was that gain comment addressed to me?

 

[battery198]

My vote is for the VH4. I've owned both.

 

[Obiwan]

I just wanted to know how I would recognize the commented compression on the said channel, so the answer was helpful anyway.

 

[Bato]

And don´t forget the cabinet! Believe me or not, but the best cabs for these amps are truly the Diezel cabs. They sound huge. You can neraly plug any amp to this cabs and the amps will sound very fine.

 

[King Crimson]

Compression is still compression, regardless of where it comes from (the amp or a pedal).
Was that gain comment addressed to me?

Not completely true, at all. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Yes & No.