High Gain + Creambacks: G12H-75 vs G12M-65

[firejack]

Whoa! Nice tones there Jer.

 

[firejack]

This sounds killer too, but Tom always sounds like this no matter what he plays through. He has incredible inherent percussive ninja attack in his hands.

 

[GOHOINC]

I own and use both. I think they both do a good job of being a higher powered version of the respective greenback they are representing, 12M's for the M65 & H30's for H75. They are great mixed together or an M65 mixed with a V30 is also very cool.
The only issue I've had is when I used a pair of M65's together in a Bogner 2x12, I thought the bottom end was kinda loose and not really suited to heavier styles. Mixing in an H75 or a V30 with the M65 fixed the problem. An H75 with a V30 was too much for me in the upper mids / high end.
I've voiced the opinion before on here that I thought the 65's were too loose for metal, but others have dis-agreed, and I believe it was Jer-Evil who posted a vid using the 65's that sounded pretty good. For me, 2x65's in the Bogner OS with a Twin Jet or a 5150 was a mess. Not good at all.
If I was loading a 4x12, I'd probably go with a pair of each type of Creamback, but a 4x12 with 2x65's and 2xV30's would give you a similar vibe to a Friedman cab with higher power handling. I think either one would sound fantastic, but I would definitely shy away from using 4x M65's, especially if you already have a greenback cab.

This is a very accurate representation of my experiences with creambacks as well, although I prefer the 65 over the 75. Also as mentioned in the above post, imo creambacks need to be mixed with something else, like a V30 or an alnico cream. I did not enjoy mixing the creamback with each other, or using them alone, they need something to compliment what they do well.

 

[Junk Yard Dog]

I own and use both. I think they both do a good job of being a higher powered version of the respective greenback they are representing, 12M's for the M65 & H30's for H75. They are great mixed together or an M65 mixed with a V30 is also very cool.
The only issue I've had is when I used a pair of M65's together in a Bogner 2x12, I thought the bottom end was kinda loose and not really suited to heavier styles. Mixing in an H75 or a V30 with the M65 fixed the problem. An H75 with a V30 was too much for me in the upper mids / high end.
I've voiced the opinion before on here that I thought the 65's were too loose for metal, but others have dis-agreed, and I believe it was Jer-Evil who posted a vid using the 65's that sounded pretty good. For me, 2x65's in the Bogner OS with a Twin Jet or a 5150 was a mess. Not good at all.
If I was loading a 4x12, I'd probably go with a pair of each type of Creamback, but a 4x12 with 2x65's and 2xV30's would give you a similar vibe to a Friedman cab with higher power handling. I think either one would sound fantastic, but I would definitely shy away from using 4x M65's, especially if you already have a greenback cab.

This is a very accurate representation of my experiences with creambacks as well, although I prefer the 65 over the 75. Also as mentioned in the above post, imo creambacks need to be mixed with something else, like a V30 or an alnico cream. I did not enjoy mixing the creamback with each other, or using them alone, they need something to compliment what they do well.

Hmmm...Leaning toward CB65's base on the the above.

 

[RedB4Black]

I've had CB75s mixed with v30s and with Alnico Creams. They sound great with those combos. I recently switched to all CB75s, which I prefer. I have pair of Scumback H75s in the mail that will complete quad of H75s in another cab (identical cab) - which will be an interesting comparison - 4 CBH75s vs 4 Scumback H75s vs 4 Fane F70s all in identical 412s.

 

[Meeotch]

/\ That is awesome! I've been really curious about the Scumbacks and Fanes. Looking forward to your comparison.

I have a 412 X pattern Creamback H75/Vintage 30 and am thinking of going all H75. The V30 spike is just not my thing.

 

[GCKelloch]

You might try one of the Large Dust Cap Scumback options for high gain playing. I'm actually not sure what the J types are modeled after. Jim describes them as in between the M and H in the high end response. Seems lie like a V-type, but the J75-LDC might sound more like an original G12-65?

Here's a comparison of a Celestion G12M-65 and a 65W Scumback M75:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaQtU3rJjEw

I prefer the fatter bass and less-edgy/more-open high end of the M75. The (Chinese?) G12M-65 just sounds like a cheaper speaker. It may not be broken in, but I doubt that makes that much difference.

Considering the sweet vintage character of the M series, I'd go with a J type for modern high gain. Technically, the bigger magnet also gives it tighter bass response.

Pete Thorn did a great Scumback demo comparison:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3eEMWyk0TE

 

[Ventura]

/\ That is awesome! I've been really curious about the Scumbacks and Fanes. Looking forward to your comparison.

I have a 412 X pattern Creamback H75/Vintage 30 and am thinking of going all H75. The V30 spike is just not my thing.

I think a lot will depend too if it's front mounted or rear mounted - I'd imagine some of the higher bite or spike might be reigned in with a RL configuration.
Just something to consider.

 

[GCKelloch]

In this weeks obsession with Scumback speakers, I narrowed it down to three clips of three good speakers for different flavors of high gain. They all have large dust caps:

I am pretty sure the J75-LD is a V-Type cone with a large dust cap. The WGS Vet 30 is also a V-Type variant. It has that nice V30 sting, but with a reduced ~3.2kHz spike. The LD cap damps the mid growl and softens the highs for a flatter/tighter overall response -- an ideal high gain speaker if there ever was one, and probably the most versatile of the three. I also like the more mid-aggressive BM75-LD a lot. Not quite as tight, but brings the ruckus in spades. The M75-LD has a bit less punch and a smoother high end -- maybe better for strictly lead playing. You could compare the BH75-LD, but I thought it has too much high end clutter. You might like the smoother H75-LD -- less-metallic and more-papery bright than the J75-LD:

 

[splatter]

I have one cab loaded with h-75's and one cab loaded with 2-H75's and 2-G12h30's.
I prefer the combo of the 2 different speakers.
Also I noticed I don't really like the bottom end of the H75 till its broke in.

 

[hammered]

I have one cab loaded with h-75's and one cab loaded with 2-H75's and 2-G12h30's.
I prefer the combo of the 2 different speakers.
Also I noticed I don't really like the bottom end of the H75 till its broke in.

I know there’s a 70th anniversary G12H30 and Heritage G12H30 . Which one are you mixing with the Creamback H75 ?