Honestly...Is The MOP Tone Really That Amazing?

[GOHOINC]

Have you listened to all of AJFA? there are definitely filler moments/tracks on that album. Just listen to the whole middle section of "Frayed Ends Of Sanity" it's fucking terrible and so is Hammett's solo, that was the beginning of Hammett's downfall as a lead player IMO. On the other hand, every note he played on Puppets served a purpose and fit the music perfectly.

I'm the opposite. I can't listen to mop straight thru, heroes and messiah dont do much for me. But I dig ajfa as a straight thru listen.

 

[skoora]

Saying you don’t care for Disposable Heroes is like saying you’re an AC/DC fan but don’t care for Let There Be Rock. It’s not just only one of their best songs, it’s one of the best songs period..you actually flummoxed me saying you don’t care for that song…

 

[SonOfMI]

With those songs it is.

 

[thegame]

flummoxed

Congratulations. This word stumped me. ME!!! Skoora 1 thegame 0

 

[braintheory]

unlike RTL where the guitars are a bit bloated and blurry for thrash, and smothered in reverb. I think AJFA has some good tones on it too, especially "Dyers Eve", but "The Shortest Straw" sounds like shit IMO. I think they used the Mesa Quad on that one.

That intro especially to Dyers Eve is one of Metallica’s best, most iconic moments imo. I hate that sound like in RTL where guys drench high gain tones in reverb or delay. It’s like the sonic equivalent of a girl wearing too much make up or a guy wearing too much cologne. Seems to be a very ‘80’s style that a lot of guys here are into in their sound. I especially hate how so many guys do that even in gear demo/review videos. Like seriously wth are they not confident enough in their core/actual sound tone that they gotta cover it up

 

[braintheory]

I agree on the production, but it's still their best work for my tastes. I don't think production/mix is good on any of their stuff til the black album. But their best music was behind them at that point.

Agreed. AJFA is imo where Metallica peaked in terms of musical content and that’s what matters most to me

Having just good production and sound with vapid musical content is like Nickelback (or EVH’s leadwork lol) and that’s in a way the direction they headed towards after sorta imo

 

[anomaly]

That intro especially to Dyers Eve is one of Metallica’s best, most iconic moments imo. I hate that sound like in RTL where guys drench high gain tones in reverb or delay. It’s like the sonic equivalent of a girl wearing too much make up or a guy wearing too much cologne. Seems to be a very ‘80’s style that a lot of guys here are into in their sound. I especially hate how so many guys do that even in gear demo/review videos. Like seriously wth are they not confident enough in their core/actual sound tone that they gotta cover it up

Ya, I notice alot of clips like that too. A little bit of reverb to try to enhance their sound, but in the end it just blurs things up. Unless it's a lead, then i'm all for a bit of delay.

 

[braintheory]

Ya, I notice alot of clips like that too. A little bit of reverb to try to enhance their sound, but in the end it just blurs things up. Unless it's a lead, then i'm all for a bit of delay.

Yeah I guess those guys maybe want those sonic band aids lol. I agree it can be nice for leads sometimes, although a lot guys overdo it there, especially for some of the shred stuff where they’re not even playing that cleanly underneath the fx covering up

 

[311splawndude]

"The House Jack Built" "Bleeding Me" "king Nothing" "The Outlaw Torn" are all amazing songs, and yes the tones are great too. That album set the bar for production quality in Hard Rock/Metal IMO. Bob Rock really took the production to a new level on that one.

Yep

I'm the opposite. I can't listen to mop straight thru, heroes and messiah dont do much for me. But I dig ajfa as a straight thru listen.

I'm the opposite

My kids love Orion because I used to blast it in the truck on the way to their baseball games as a way to get them pumped up. That album and Disturbed stuff

 

[anomaly]

Yeah I guess those guys maybe want those sonic band aids lol. I agree it can be nice for leads sometimes, although a lot guys overdo it there, especially for some of the shred stuff where they’re not even playing that cleanly underneath the fx covering up

I know what you're talking about and I hate that shit, that and i'm not into shred all that much, i like it in small doses and too much delay on that kinda playing can be really bad too, just a big repeating wall of blurry notes, haha. I just like a touch of delay for more sparse playing where the notes are sustaining, nothing that covers what is being played. Rhythms gotta be 100% dry IMO... especially when demoing an amp, ya know? You gotta hear what the amp can do, not a suger coated representation of what it can do.

 

[braintheory]

I know what you're talking about and I hate that shit, that and i'm not into shred all that much, i like it in small doses and too much delay on that kinda playing can be really bad too, just a big repeating wall of blurry notes, haha. I just like a touch of delay for more sparse playing where the notes are sustaining, nothing that covers what is being played. Rhythms gotta be 100% dry IMO... especially when demoing an amp, ya know? You gotta hear what the amp can do, not a suger coated representation of what it can do.

I prefer it all to be 100% dry. Imo if the quality of tone is good enough, it doesn’t need any further assistance from delay or reverb. It’s kinda like when you have high enough quality coffee it doesn’t need any sugar or milk added to taste great and actually tastes worse with those added. If it only sounds good with that assistance then it’s not really a good tone they got to begin with

I love the way shred sounds if played well, but the problem is it’s all so vapid in musical depth other than some solos by RR & Marty, but I don’t really consider that shred, so I guess I’ve not really heard shred guitar with good musical quality behind it, just good technique

 

[anomaly]

I prefer it all to be 100% dry. Imo if the quality of tone is good enough, it doesn’t need any further assistance from delay or reverb. It’s kinda like when you have high enough quality coffee it doesn’t need any sugar or milk added to taste great and actually tastes worse with those added. If it only sounds good with that assistance then it’s not really a good tone they got to begin with

I love the way shred sounds if played well, but the problem is it’s all so vapid in musical depth other than some solos by RR & Marty, but I don’t really consider that shred, so I guess I’ve not really heard shred guitar with good musical quality behind it, just good technique

You ever heard any of Chris Poland's (ex Megadeth) stuff with Ohm? The fusiony stuff, he's a great player and even better now than when he was in Megadeth. I wouldn't really consider that shred either but he plays insanely fast sometimes. He's got one of the most unique style's i've ever heard. The way he bends, his vibrato and legato, it's all very very unique.

 

[braintheory]

You ever heard any of Chris Poland's (ex Megadeth) stuff with Ohm? The fusiony stuff, he's a great player and even better now than when he was in Megadeth. I wouldn't really consider that shred either but he plays insanely fast sometimes. He's got one of the most unique style's i've ever heard. The way he bends, his vibrato and legato, it's all very very unique.

Oh yeah of course, forget to mention him, but totally agree he’s awesome and unique. I will check out that Ohm stuff you mentioned. I have heard some non-Megadeth stuff from him that sounded great. I also would categorize him more as a tasteful fusion player rather than a shredder really. For pure shred I really can’t think of any player with good musical content behind it that I’ve heard

 

[napalmdeath]

I agree on the production, but it's still their best work for my tastes. I don't think production/mix is good on any of their stuff til the black album. But their best music was behind them at that point.

Didn't help with their douchebag move to remove Newstead out of the mix.

The Black album, Load, and Re-Load all sounded killer. Songs were hit/miss, but great production.

 

[angelspade]

And Justice For All is probably one of my least favorite Metallica albums. Awful production.

I totally understand that by traditional measures there was a lot wrong with the production choices on AJFA...But I will say this: At that time, it seemed that there was just something strangely ultra-modern and futuristic about how that record sounded and felt. The way the scooped, over-sizzled guitars crunched in lockstep with that bright, muted kick-drum sound was just wild. It's like the entire sound was hollowed out, but punchy and aggressive at the same time. I remember when they released "Harvester" before the record came out. I heard it on the radio on a late night metal program, it was just so different sonically speaking than anything I had experienced at that time. I personally believe that the influence of the production and mixing choices can be heard on other highly influential records, including Pantera's Far Beyond Driven. AJFA certainly displayed a flawed production style but at that time, and for that record...It just seemed to fit. I love AJFA, and for me it is the Metallica record that is the most rebellious, angry and interesting from many angles.

 

[anomaly]

I'm the opposite. I can't listen to mop straight thru, heroes and messiah dont do much for me. But I dig ajfa as a straight thru listen.

I can't listen to AJFA all the way through, it's too disjointed, too many parts that don't fit in the songs. Like the instrumental, it just goes off on these weird tangents. MOP is cohesive all the way through, every song is perfect... they're all long songs but they don't feel too long. The title track to AJFA on the other hand has some great riffs and melodies in it but as a whole it's too long and disjointed. Eye Of The Beholder has one or two good riffs, then the rest is shit, same with Frayed Ends and Shortest Straw. I'd say Blackend, One and Harvester Of Sorrow are the only three great songs on that album, Dyers Eve is a good song too, but not great.

 

[braintheory]

I totally understand that by traditional measures there was a lot wrong with the production choices on AJFA...But I will say this: At that time, it seemed that there was just something strangely ultra-modern and futuristic about how that record sounded and felt. The way the scooped, over-sizzled guitars crunched in lockstep with that bright, muted kick-drum sound was just wild. It's like the entire sound was hollowed out, but punchy and aggressive at the same time. I remember when they released "Harvester" before the record came out. I heard it on the radio on a late night metal program, it was just so different sonically speaking than anything I had experienced at that time. I personally believe that the influence of the production and mixing choices can be heard on other highly influential records, including Pantera's Far Beyond Driven. AJFA certainly displayed a flawed production style but at that time, and for that record...It just seemed to fit. I love AJFA, and for me it is the Metallica record that is the most rebellious, angry and interesting from many angles.

Agreed it was Metallica at their prime and most distinctive imo both musically and soundwise

 

[Philhouse]

I prefer it all to be 100% dry. Imo if the quality of tone is good enough, it doesn’t need any further assistance from delay or reverb. It’s kinda like when you have high enough quality coffee it doesn’t need any sugar or milk added to taste great and actually tastes worse with those added. If it only sounds good with that assistance then it’s not really a good tone they got to begin with

I agree, and they should get rid of boosts and such in amp demos for the same reason.

 

[braintheory]

I agree, and they should get rid of boosts and such in amp demos for the same reason.

I would agree, although I think it can be helpful at the end of the demo to show how the amp takes boosts. With reverb or delay on the other hand, it’s not helpful at all imo (just clutters things) and they rarely mention they’re using it for whatever reason lol, while at least most demos will mention the boost if it’s used