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Ejblives
New member
Always an interesting subject
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severinsteel
New member
I found out that King's X charges between 10k and 15k per show. Add in all of their expenses, paying the crew, bus or van rental, and paying the opening band who is touring with them, I would imagine each member would make 1k each per show, at the most. We opened for them in NC on their last tour. I calculated that the amount of paying people there wouldn't equal what King's X guarantee probably is. Sure enough, the promoter was really sketchy, borrowed money to pay the band, and skipped town.
Stradazone
Well-known member
severinsteel":2frf6a4s said:
I can't speak for other parts of the country but in the greater Los Angeles area, the venue gets local 'opening bands' to pre-sale tix to open for headliners such as King's X for 'exposure' or whatever reason, put 4-5 opening bands on the bill and have them pre-sale let's say 50 tix at $20 each = $1000 in tix each, right there you have 4-5 grand that goes to the headliner..
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severinsteel
New member
Stradazone":1qlt3b5m said:
Yep! That happened a lot around the clubs in NC. In fact, for the Kings X show, the other opening band had to sell tickets I believe. The promotor liked us, so he didn't make us do that, haha. I hate that whole pre-sale scam.
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JimAnsell
Well-known member
The real money is in hip hop / rap.
some of those songs are like 3 minutes long, one or two synth "riffs", 1 beat, some slick vocal production, probably 1-2 days worth of serious studio work.
100 million+ views on you tube, millions of downloads, millions of actual record sales (cause country and hip hop still actually sell physical cds...look at the billboard charts).
Plus clothing companies, car companies, snack companies, etc all want to endorse them.
Those guys make stupid money.
Metal/rock guys get chump change these days, by comparison, unfortunately.
some of those songs are like 3 minutes long, one or two synth "riffs", 1 beat, some slick vocal production, probably 1-2 days worth of serious studio work.
100 million+ views on you tube, millions of downloads, millions of actual record sales (cause country and hip hop still actually sell physical cds...look at the billboard charts).
Plus clothing companies, car companies, snack companies, etc all want to endorse them.
Those guys make stupid money.
Metal/rock guys get chump change these days, by comparison, unfortunately.
eternal_idol
New member
JimAnsell":jfoy6536 said:
We, will get our time.. the festering has started... as expressed above.. real music by musicians will come back again... but again for how long LOL
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JimAnsell
Well-known member
eternal_idol":3u0qm2m8 said:
No, we HAD our time. Guitar music dominated the 70's, 80's and 90's. Rock/metal guys had their pay day in the 80's and 90's for sure.
Most of the rappers i've dealt with personally (i'm in detroit, so they're common, and GOOD here) either play an insturment, can sing really well, and or know how to work circles around me on production software. And they're ambitious as hell, and know their shit about music. Also, the general attitude is "if your shit is sweet, your shit is sweet", and people collaborate. Rap guys like rock, rock guys like metal. (Does that explain kid rock a little bit?) So having the attitude that they are not real musicians is kinda bullshit. I thought the same thing when i was in my early 20's until i was constantly proven wrong. Image is super important in that game, and that tends to throw people off most of the time.
sytharnia1560
Well-known member
Rick Lee":1rvn9jqv said:
pretty sure when I looked at it 20yrs ago it was something like 7% went to the author (if it was released as a single)
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Cornfordcrunch
New member
You have to consider the worldwide reach and success a lot of these artists still have when factoring in yearly income. Just because someone is only selling out/ performing in smaller clubs/casinos in the states doesn't necessarily indicate they are making less than 6 figures unless you follow them around the world.
A band like Firehouse(I'll use this as an example because I know a purchaser who hired them last summer) can still command 7 to 10k for a festival in the USA. Like many bands these days, they travel with no backline, the flights/meals/transportation are factored in to the promoters cost, the have no crew(local) with maybe a road manager/FOH guy. As a four piece on a 10k gig for typically 75-90 minutes, after paying a 15-20% agent commission, they probably each walk away from a festival gig with roughly 2k plus merch money and meet and greet fees if they are offered....typically they'll do 2 or 3 dates over a weekend to maximize profit vs travel pain in the ass. That's potentially 6k plus a guy over a weekend....and they can do that stuff all summer long in the states....and all year long worldwide and command way more money in their primary markets....I think most of the guys like EJ, Kotzen, are well into better than 6 figures even though their stateside draws may not indicate it being possible.
A band like Firehouse(I'll use this as an example because I know a purchaser who hired them last summer) can still command 7 to 10k for a festival in the USA. Like many bands these days, they travel with no backline, the flights/meals/transportation are factored in to the promoters cost, the have no crew(local) with maybe a road manager/FOH guy. As a four piece on a 10k gig for typically 75-90 minutes, after paying a 15-20% agent commission, they probably each walk away from a festival gig with roughly 2k plus merch money and meet and greet fees if they are offered....typically they'll do 2 or 3 dates over a weekend to maximize profit vs travel pain in the ass. That's potentially 6k plus a guy over a weekend....and they can do that stuff all summer long in the states....and all year long worldwide and command way more money in their primary markets....I think most of the guys like EJ, Kotzen, are well into better than 6 figures even though their stateside draws may not indicate it being possible.
SpiderWars
Well-known member
But on some level you helped make his point. 'Working circles around you on production software' is production/engineering, not musician. Lots of non-musicians can sing really well. I'm not saying rappers are not talented, I'm sure there's a lot of talent in that genre. But great musicians have a lot of talent...and then spend hours-into-years of time 'woodshedding' on their instrument. And I'm sure lots of those guys have spent that time rapping but I guess to me rapping does not necessarily equal musician. But I'm one of those that never looks at the singer (unless the singer is playing an instrument...or she's really hot), always the players.JimAnsell":1a7gq4gk said:
reverymike
Active member
sytharnia1560":3jh09hm3 said:
Pretty sure the majority of the royalty goes to the songwriter, not the performer.
ProgFree
New member
reverymike":2bpdwtyk said:
Not in the US. There is only needed the permission by the publisher or credit as stated above and then is around 7%.
HellraiserJohnny
Member
Sorry to chime in on a negative note but for real . . . . . WHO CARES!?!?!?!?!?! Any artist who has been in the business for as long as EJ will eventually play to smaller and smaller venues. Depending on any artist success, yes there will be the occasional large venue but you better stay on the charts if you don't want to loose your ass and your fan base. Touring has never been a big $$$$ maker for artists which is why there is so much merchandising. If they appear on TV they get scale regardless of what their agent\promoter asks.
In my experience, over the long haul, players and bands slowly gain access (through negotiation with their label) to their publishing rights. This is the meat and potatoes of the music business. Touring has never been means to sustain a artist or Band after the first few years (of course there are exception like Metallica). Touring is how you stay in touch with your fan base. Recording and releasing is how you keep them.
I've gone to see bands that packed arenas for years and now play in dinky local night clubs. Guess what, all of them still kick ass and I'm glad to be able to see then in a venue where I can actually see them and maybe get the chance to talk or shake their hand. Next time you see EJ at a small gig, why don't you walk up, shake his hand and ask him what he made playing that night and see what he says? My 2 cents worth.
In my experience, over the long haul, players and bands slowly gain access (through negotiation with their label) to their publishing rights. This is the meat and potatoes of the music business. Touring has never been means to sustain a artist or Band after the first few years (of course there are exception like Metallica). Touring is how you stay in touch with your fan base. Recording and releasing is how you keep them.
I've gone to see bands that packed arenas for years and now play in dinky local night clubs. Guess what, all of them still kick ass and I'm glad to be able to see then in a venue where I can actually see them and maybe get the chance to talk or shake their hand. Next time you see EJ at a small gig, why don't you walk up, shake his hand and ask him what he made playing that night and see what he says? My 2 cents worth.
Kapo_Polenton
Well-known member
HellraiserJohnny":3hy3lc7v said:
EJ looked like he was ready to get out of the bar pretty quick.. he stopped in front of me while a few eager young fans asked for an autograph or a pick but he seemed more the introvert type and ready to move it along. Can't blame him, small gigs in the uglier parts of large cities can't be that exciting. He played a club located in what looks like a strip mall outside the city centre. Nothing to write home about. To his credit though, he did put on a great show and definitely didn't short change the audience. That's the sign of a pro.
I only really asked the question because it made me think of other touring musicians who are even less popular than EJ now, and I wondered how it all breaks down for them and what keeps them doing what they do. No fingers are being pointed, just another day and another random topic posted here on RT.
messenger
Well-known member
HellraiserJohnny":2tdslfcj said:
Obviously OP cares and that's why he asked
and I'm guessing everyone else that posted cares too. And I think most bands make money from touring NOW. Not too many making a living from selling albums.
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bunghole
Active member
I remember in 2014 when Hal Patino was fired from (quit?) King Diamond he claimed he wasn't payed adequately (among other claims) and King himself posted in response on the coven forums that the band members were payed $1000 US per show. King himself lives in a nice neighborhood in Frisco, Texas (DFW suburb). I don't know how much money he made in the heyday and how much he makes off Metallica royalties, but he seems to do pretty well for a mid level band. His tickets are typically around 40 dollars or so. Of course he may be really good with money. I know some mid level bands don't make much of anything (Dave Brockie of GWAR was rooming with GWAR's bass player when he died at the age of 50 - and they toured at least 3 months a year to pretty good crowds - of course when you divide 20 dollars a ticket with a few hundred people up among 5 musicians, 5 slaves, and a few other people its nothing)