How well are Engl amps made?

[angelspade]

I would describe the build quality of the ENGL Powerball that I owned as below average. Unfortunately, I would probably be inclined to describe it's sound quality in a similar way. Lots of ENGL fans out there, but I'm not one of them,

 

[mcstinger]

I really don't know where these rumors about the poor quality of Engl amps originated. I suspect that this whole fuss was made by repeating a story about a Special Edition that scared the death out of a technician.

I already had a bunch of Engls open, primarily for routine maintenance. The only model where I would be a little hesitant to service is the Invader. The Special Edition is complicated, but there is a schematic available for it. The Savage SE is also packed with features, but it's not far from the Special Edition circuitwise. Other head models are more or less simple. I can't imagine what can't be serviced on them, especially when I compare Engl with other brands. And that the parts are facing the chassis? Being a manufacturer, I can't imagine a better protection against reverse engineering . I too was too lazy to disassemble the Friedman and draw the schematic.

As for quality. As someone mentioned earlier, Engl is not a boutique amp producer. It is a normal serial production, where of course there are some compromises for cost reduction. But also in the direction of the quality of internal components, Engl is progressing. I have a fairly old Artist, where the PCB is fixed on plastic spacers and moves when changing tubes. Extreme Aggression is now a level higher. I recently had a few years old Friedman open and everything is already solid, with a sufficiently thick PCB firmly attached. Reliability? For how many musicians Engl use, I have met or read significantly more about defective Peavey, Mesa and others, not to mention Marshall.

But so what. The dogs bark and the caravan moves forward

 

[Banned by IK Multmedia]

There was a thread about its quality before https://www.rig-talk.com/forum/thre...consistent-among-various-models.194650/page-4

There is someone really pissed off in the last post pointing to some parts in his pictures.

It is impossible to take any conclusion when we cannot see most of the amp internals, but it is not repair friendly for sure.

 

[Deleted member 38657]

So, should I take the Fireball 100 off my list? Are they not user serviceable? I really fell for this amp after playing one a few months ago.

 

[blackba]

Does anyone know if schematics and layouts are available for Engl amps in the USA?

Haven’t had an Engl come in for repair, maybe I have been lucky.

 

[MusicIsLife]

I've had a couple of ENGLs. No issues per se. I did buy an E580 from Europe, and I did try to get ahold of ENGL though to see if the transformer had taps for US voltage, or if I could buy a replacement transformer that did, and it was like pulling teeth to get any info. I don't think there are a lot of ENGL-authorized repair centers in the US either. If you need work done, I wouldn't count on your tech being able to get a schematic from them.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

I really don't know where these rumors about the poor quality of Engl amps originated. I suspect that this whole fuss was made by repeating a story about a Special Edition that scared the death out of a technician.

I already had a bunch of Engls open, primarily for routine maintenance. The only model where I would be a little hesitant to service is the Invader. The Special Edition is complicated, but there is a schematic available for it. The Savage SE is also packed with features, but it's not far from the Special Edition circuitwise. Other head models are more or less simple. I can't imagine what can't be serviced on them, especially when I compare Engl with other brands. And that the parts are facing the chassis? Being a manufacturer, I can't imagine a better protection against reverse engineering . I too was too lazy to disassemble the Friedman and draw the schematic.

As for quality. As someone mentioned earlier, Engl is not a boutique amp producer. It is a normal serial production, where of course there are some compromises for cost reduction. But also in the direction of the quality of internal components, Engl is progressing. I have a fairly old Artist, where the PCB is fixed on plastic spacers and moves when changing tubes. Extreme Aggression is now a level higher. I recently had a few years old Friedman open and everything is already solid, with a sufficiently thick PCB firmly attached. Reliability? For how many musicians Engl use, I have met or read significantly more about defective Peavey, Mesa and others, not to mention Marshall.

But so what. The dogs bark and the caravan moves forward

I really don't know where these rumors about the poor quality of Engl amps originated. I suspect that this whole fuss was made by repeating a story about a Special Edition that scared the death out of a technician.

I already had a bunch of Engls open, primarily for routine maintenance. The only model where I would be a little hesitant to service is the Invader. The Special Edition is complicated, but there is a schematic available for it. The Savage SE is also packed with features, but it's not far from the Special Edition circuitwise. Other head models are more or less simple. I can't imagine what can't be serviced on them, especially when I compare Engl with other brands. And that the parts are facing the chassis? Being a manufacturer, I can't imagine a better protection against reverse engineering . I too was too lazy to disassemble the Friedman and draw the schematic.

As for quality. As someone mentioned earlier, Engl is not a boutique amp producer. It is a normal serial production, where of course there are some compromises for cost reduction. But also in the direction of the quality of internal components, Engl is progressing. I have a fairly old Artist, where the PCB is fixed on plastic spacers and moves when changing tubes. Extreme Aggression is now a level higher. I recently had a few years old Friedman open and everything is already solid, with a sufficiently thick PCB firmly attached. Reliability? For how many musicians Engl use, I have met or read significantly more about defective Peavey, Mesa and others, not to mention Marshall.

But so what. The dogs bark and the caravan moves forward

I've owned 4-5 Engls and looked inside all of them and I would put build quality in the subpar category. That is a self-based category based on my personal experience as someone who repaired electronics for about 6-7 years at one point in life. My opinion is based of overall construction methods and general materials from a purely ocular perspective, not talking what brand trans formers, caps, diodes, etc. but more how they are implemented. The boards are stupid thin, and as stated by someone else mounted on cheap plastic standoffs, cheap looking/flimsy ribbon connectors, etc.

Of the 50 or more amps I've owned, and having been inside every one, I'd put Engl at the very bottom of the list in terms of build quality. As for reliability, no idea as the longest I've owned one is about two years. Always worked for me so no complaints there. Tonewise, etc, I enjoyed the models I've owned for what they do. The Post 2011 Savage120 is in my top 5 probably.

 

[mcstinger]

I've owned 4-5 Engls and looked inside all of them and I would put build quality in the subpar category. That is a self-based category based on my personal experience as someone who repaired electronics for about 6-7 years at one point in life. My opinion is based of overall construction methods and general materials from a purely ocular perspective, not talking what brand trans formers, caps, diodes, etc. but more how they are implemented. The boards are stupid thin, and as stated by someone else mounted on cheap plastic standoffs, cheap looking/flimsy ribbon connectors, etc.

Of the 50 or more amps I've owned, and having been inside every one, I'd put Engl at the very bottom of the list in terms of build quality. As for reliability, no idea as the longest I've owned one is about two years. Always worked for me so no complaints there. Tonewise, etc, I enjoyed the models I've owned for what they do. The Post 2011 Savage120 is in my top 5 probably.

As I wrote, they got better at using thicker PCBs and better spacers. Otherwise, I don't think at all that they use sub par components, cables, etc. "Flimsy looking" is very subjective .

 

[mcstinger]

So, should I take the Fireball 100 off my list? Are they not user serviceable? I really fell for this amp after playing one a few months ago.

I've seen Fireball go down with a full stack. Nothing happened to it . What does it mean user serviceable?

 

[Strandberg Junkie]

Took a peek in the Ironball. Really clean assembly and solder work. Excellent quality hardware.

 

[Devin]

Red PCB's do have some of the best toane

 

[Deleted member 38657]

I've seen Fireball go down with a full stack. Nothing happened to it . What does it mean user serviceable?

Like can I repair it without the need of expensive reball tools or sticking a pcb in the oven? Do they have trace or solder issues, cheap components, or just flimsy PCB? Are the standoffs an issue needing attention? Poor grounding?

 

[mcstinger]

Like can I repair it without the need of expensive reball tools or sticking a pcb in the oven? Do they have trace or solder issues, cheap components, or just flimsy PCB? Are the standoffs an issue needing attention? Poor grounding?

Good news is, that the Fireball has no BGA chips inside. Bad news is, that it requires some preheating in the oven, before playing it.

If something needs to be fixed on it, disassembly will take let say 30 minutes. It's a simple amp.

20 or so Engls that have passed through my hands over the last 10 years basically only needed cleaning, tube replacement and bias adjustment. One E530 had a faulty capacitor and I changed the grid resistors on the old E860. But these are devices that work in difficult conditions and with high voltages. Anything can get defective. One faulty component could cause disaster, one bad solder joint can cause malfunction.

 

[Banned by IK Multmedia]

This thread can only be closed when someone posts pictures of the other side of the boards, the rarest amp pictures ever

 

[Deleted member 38657]

Good news is, that the Fireball has no BGA chips inside. Bad news is, that it requires some preheating in the oven, before playing it.

If something needs to be fixed on it, disassembly will take let say 30 minutes. It's a simple amp.

20 or so Engls that have passed through my hands over the last 10 years basically only needed cleaning, tube replacement and bias adjustment. One E530 had a faulty capacitor and I changed the grid resistors on the old E860. But these are devices that work in difficult conditions and with high voltages. Anything can get defective. One faulty component could cause disaster, one bad solder joint can cause malfunction.

Awesome. Thanks for the info, Mcstinger! I've been holding out for a Fireball. I keep seeing them pop up as open box models on some websites and was starting to worry. I played one a few months ago against a couple Marshalls and Orange amps, and it took the win for what I'm looking for. They look to be easy enough to find, so it's going into 3rd position for me until I get my hands on a Mark IV and a Sunn 300T. Thanks again for the info!

 

[the4thlast1]

The problem that I have had personally with two different ENGL models was the same. This was fuse protection placement. I am an electrician not an amp builder , however knowing how important fuse and circuit breaker protection is I was surprised. Both models had a power tube failure that caused large amounts of other components to go up in smoke and need replacement. They were an older SE model and a newer Fireball 100 model.

Power tube failure is something that commonly happens , it's a somewhat normal risk and something that in my opinion should be taken into account when designing a guitar amplifier circuit with proper fuse protection. I have had power tube failure happen in several other brands of amps such as Friedman, Bogner and Victory. When the power tube red plated a fuse blew in those amplifiers. I then got a new set of tubes, replaced the fuse and I was good to go, not the case with the ENGL.

 

[LPMojoGL]

Had an Engl Ironball, and didn't care for the build quality. More than one were needing repair at GC.

 

[Deleted member 38657]

The problem that I have had personally with two different ENGL models was the same. This was fuse protection placement. I am an electrician not an amp builder , however knowing how important fuse and circuit breaker protection is I was surprised. Both models had a power tube failure that caused large amounts of other components to go up in smoke and need replacement. They were an older SE model and a newer Fireball 100 model.

Power tube failure is something that commonly happens , it's a somewhat normal risk and something that in my opinion should be taken into account when designing a guitar amplifier circuit with proper fuse protection. I have had power tube failure happen in several other brands of amps such as Friedman, Bogner and Victory. When the power tube red plated a fuse blew in those amplifiers. I then got a new set of tubes, replaced the fuse and I was good to go, not the case with the ENGL.

So, what's wrong with the design? Is it something that can easily be modded? I really want one. It just spoke to me.

 

[Deleted member 38657]

Had an Engl Ironball, and didn't care for the build quality. More than one were needing repair at GC.

Didn't know GC repaired amps. I feel they can barely manage to describe things correctly.

 

[LPMojoGL]

Didn't know GC repaired amps. I feel they can barely manage to describe things correctly.

They don't, but they break plenty, and the Engls I've tried are hit or miss.