I tried to recreate the Exodus & Andy Sneap studio setup...

[thefyn]

This one is better played cranked...

It's a bit mixed up because I mimic one albums setup, but play a song from an earlier album.

What do you think?

 

[rottingcorpse]

Gary Holt is my all time favorite from the thrash scene. Great tone and chops. Great writer.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I like your videos... always huge sounds. As for Sneap, I agree with you on being a victim of his own sound. Everything now is too perfect. I hate the sound of snapped to grid drums and replacement. Hardly sounds like a drummer anymore. The sounds on Rust in Peace or Seasons in the Abyss sound like real drums. Something happened in the early 2000's which got people away from that.

 

[MetalHeadMike]

Fabulous Disaster: what a classic Exodus album and "Like Father, Like Son" is one of my favorite songs off of it

Great job as usual man! Sounds like you nailed it

 

[headlessdeadguy]

Killer

 

[thefyn]

I like your videos... always huge sounds. As for Sneap, I agree with you on being a victim of his own sound. Everything now is too perfect. I hate the sound of snapped to grid drums and replacement. Hardly sounds like a drummer anymore. The sounds on Rust in Peace or Seasons in the Abyss sound like real drums. Something happened in the early 2000's which got people away from that.

I've often fantasized about starting a rock/metal label that has one rule. All bands don't play to a click/snapped to a grid.

It does not have to be tape but there is so much excitement being lost being stuck to one pace. The song in this demo jumps from something like 100bpm to 150bpm in a blink of an eye. Haha.

 

[thefyn]

Fabulous Disaster: what a classic Exodus album and "Like Father, Like Son" is one of my favorite songs off of it

Great job as usual man! Sounds like you nailed it

That album is immense. Really appreciate the feedback.

 

[maddnotez]

The song in this demo jumps from something like 100bpm to 150bpm in a blink of an eye. Haha.

But can't you do that to a click as well? Just would be much more precise?

Getting ready to hit the studio myself with the band and this is a pretty serious debate we are having.

To click or not to click.

Our drummer is good but does have timing issues, especially with fills. Like his fills will slow the part down to where if you did have a click, it would not fit.

Some songs are sounding better now that we practice to a click but some others are weird. I thought it was because of odd time signatures or frequent changes in those songs.

I understand the "fake" drum sound but I am missing what it is about a click that makes people say it is not good. I think modern recordings sound great and shouldn't the music be on time? Even if there are minute adjustments you can still program those to a click.


Anyway kind of OT but a reply to your post. The video itself and that tone are killer.

 

[JerEvil]

The song in this demo jumps from something like 100bpm to 150bpm in a blink of an eye. Haha.

But can't you do that to a click as well? Just would be much more precise?

Getting ready to hit the studio myself with the band and this is a pretty serious debate we are having.

To click or not to click.

Our drummer is good but does have timing issues, especially with fills. Like his fills will slow the part down to where if you did have a click, it would not fit.

Some songs are sounding better now that we practice to a click but some others are weird. I thought it was because of odd time signatures or frequent changes in those songs.

I understand the "fake" drum sound but I am missing what it is about a click that makes people say it is not good. I think modern recordings sound great and shouldn't the music be on time? Even if there are minute adjustments you can still program those to a click.


Anyway kind of OT but a reply to your post. The video itself and that tone are killer.

Whole debate for another thread maybe. I LIKE a click for when I am going back to quad track but I do NOT snap to a grid. As long as it is pretty close, I am ok with variance when we record. Especially since our drummer uses a V-Drum kit and then we add samples.


And yes, GREAT vid!

 

[maddnotez]

Whole debate for another thread maybe. =!

You are just too fast for me Jer thread incoming.

 

[JerEvil]

Whole debate for another thread maybe. =!

You are just too fast for me Jer thread incoming.

That's what she said?

 

[maddnotez]

Whole debate for another thread maybe. =!

You are just too fast for me Jer thread incoming.

That's what she said?

What did she thread you with?

 

[JerEvil]

Whole debate for another thread maybe. =!

You are just too fast for me Jer thread incoming.

That's what she said?

What did she thread you with?

You don't wanna know...

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

The song in this demo jumps from something like 100bpm to 150bpm in a blink of an eye. Haha.

But can't you do that to a click as well? Just would be much more precise?

Getting ready to hit the studio myself with the band and this is a pretty serious debate we are having.

To click or not to click.

Our drummer is good but does have timing issues, especially with fills. Like his fills will slow the part down to where if you did have a click, it would not fit.

Some songs are sounding better now that we practice to a click but some others are weird. I thought it was because of odd time signatures or frequent changes in those songs.

I understand the "fake" drum sound but I am missing what it is about a click that makes people say it is not good. I think modern recordings sound great and shouldn't the music be on time? Even if there are minute adjustments you can still program those to a click.


Anyway kind of OT but a reply to your post. The video itself and that tone are killer.

I drum as well (not well and this is how I know) so I can offer some info. For one, do a shit tone of takes. Being able to play to a metronome helps but it can also be tricky so what I suggest is that you get your drummer up with something like EZ drummer where you can quickly plot the skeleton of the song. He can practice playing to a timed and perfect performance but the human element of his playing will off set the perfect timing of the program and make it sound more alive. Another reason for everything sampled is that when quantized, you essentially have all these individual pieces of the kit replaced so you can mix and match as needed because you have removed bleed from mics and other stuff that would have made it hard for guys in the 70's to quantize. What I do is group the tracks and then cut and move them all as required a bit to left or right if timing was slightly off. Now within 10 takes or so there should be usable material for one song. If fills are the issue, have the drummer listen to a metronome and record his fill 10 times. One of those takes is going to be perfect enough to make it on the recording. I would also suggest recording a bunch of random fills that are on time... snare rolls, floor tom, some cymbals, cymbal chokes. You can slot these in later on if there was an error somewhere in the performance. This is old school methodology but just pretend there is no computer and you have to splice tape. This will give you the most realistic performance. Sure, the drummer still has to pull it off live but that is what rehearsals are for.

I feel the new methods are time savers but also lazy because you are essentially removing the drummer. I want to hear the room, the plastic off the heads, the bleed. You can still process a crap kit that is well tuned and you would be amazed how good it sounds... and unique because you didn't use the same sample 1000 other bedroom or pro producers used from the Slate library.

 

[thefyn]

The song in this demo jumps from something like 100bpm to 150bpm in a blink of an eye. Haha.

But can't you do that to a click as well? Just would be much more precise?

Getting ready to hit the studio myself with the band and this is a pretty serious debate we are having.

To click or not to click.

Our drummer is good but does have timing issues, especially with fills. Like his fills will slow the part down to where if you did have a click, it would not fit.

Some songs are sounding better now that we practice to a click but some others are weird. I thought it was because of odd time signatures or frequent changes in those songs.

I understand the "fake" drum sound but I am missing what it is about a click that makes people say it is not good. I think modern recordings sound great and shouldn't the music be on time? Even if there are minute adjustments you can still program those to a click.


Anyway kind of OT but a reply to your post. The video itself and that tone are killer.

Yep that's how I did it. The tempo change.

But it's the groove that suffers. The musicians locked in. The drum replacement has resulted in producers with favorite samples and they use them on different bands. So it's the whole thing that sucks the honesty out of the music.

Your drummer issues should be solved if he plays something more simple that he can nail. Esp if recording. Unless it's punk etc.

Im not an expert. I just know what I like.

 

[skoora]

I think some of you are confusing playing to a click with drum replacement/samples. Playing to a click doesn't rob the human feel of a song. It will often save the song depending on the drummer. Plus if you're overdubbing a lot you'll appreciate it being on tempo. Drum replacement/samples etc absolutely robs the human feel when over used. I'm not against mixing a sample in with an acoustic sound but total replacement sucks.

OP, Good job on the vid. Now in relation to all this drum talk, is your band really a "band" or is it you using drum software and recording everything else, with maybe someone else doing vocals? The modern era band per se...

 

[thegame]

Fyn, is that Custom shop SH-5 pickup that much better than an off the shelf SH-5 ?

 

[thefyn]

I think some of you are confusing playing to a click with drum replacement/samples. Playing to a click doesn't rob the human feel of a song. It will often save the song depending on the drummer. Plus if you're overdubbing a lot you'll appreciate it being on tempo. Drum replacement/samples etc absolutely robs the human feel when over used. I'm not against mixing a sample in with an acoustic sound but total replacement sucks.

OP, Good job on the vid. Now in relation to all this drum talk, is your band really a "band" or is it you using drum software and recording everything else, with maybe someone else doing vocals? The modern era band per se...

Yep I explain that here but it's a long video:

I said that I put electronica in my bands songs so it's obvious it is a drum machine. I state my first love is thrash but I can't call myself a thrash band if I use fake drums so I changed the style.

IMO if you use fake drums you can't call yourself a thrash band. You are just modern metal.

My "band"

Although the new album will have the guys in the video playing.

They are my brothers.

 

[thefyn]

Fyn, is that Custom shop SH-5 pickup that much better than an off the shelf SH-5 ?

Imo the pickups before they started printing seymore Duncan on the covers sound a little better than thier modern counterparts.

I recently bought a SD hotrails. It's almost comical how thin the wires are. It was a miracle my soldering iron didn't melt it.

I don't think design is key. I think the metal/filament/magnets are. That's why if I don't buy old Gibson pickups I tend to buy old SD.

If you wait you can pick up old MJ wound pre stamp SD's for the same price as a used modern one. It's not night and day but there is something about the old materials. That's why my fav current production are motor city pickups. He understands pickups on a metallurgy level.

 

[thefyn]

I drum as well (not well and this is how I know) so I can offer some info. For one, do a shit tone of takes. Being able to play to a metronome helps but it can also be tricky so what I suggest is that you get your drummer up with something like EZ drummer where you can quickly plot the skeleton of the song. He can practice playing to a timed and perfect performance but the human element of his playing will off set the perfect timing of the program and make it sound more alive. Another reason for everything sampled is that when quantized, you essentially have all these individual pieces of the kit replaced so you can mix and match as needed because you have removed bleed from mics and other stuff that would have made it hard for guys in the 70's to quantize. What I do is group the tracks and then cut and move them all as required a bit to left or right if timing was slightly off. Now within 10 takes or so there should be usable material for one song. If fills are the issue, have the drummer listen to a metronome and record his fill 10 times. One of those takes is going to be perfect enough to make it on the recording. I would also suggest recording a bunch of random fills that are on time... snare rolls, floor tom, some cymbals, cymbal chokes. You can slot these in later on if there was an error somewhere in the performance. This is old school methodology but just pretend there is no computer and you have to splice tape. This will give you the most realistic performance. Sure, the drummer still has to pull it off live but that is what rehearsals are for.

I feel the new methods are time savers but also lazy because you are essentially removing the drummer. I want to hear the room, the plastic off the heads, the bleed. You can still process a crap kit that is well tuned and you would be amazed how good it sounds... and unique because you didn't use the same sample 1000 other bedroom or pro producers used from the Slate library.

I do all that groovy stuff with my drums.

I subtly change drum velocity and drag drum hits out of alignment here and there. I think I'm getting pretty natural sounding even with fake drums. I'll be blending in really percussion on the next album with my old programmed tracks like this: