I went Kemper... and now I question my loyalty to tube amps

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PhloridaMan

PhloridaMan

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Seriously, is there a support group where I can seek help?

I traded an Engl Invader about 4 months ago now for a Kemper Rack Unpowered. I have since paired that with an ART SLA1 power amp and a Tech 21 Midi Moose and it has taken over my world. It's to the point where my 6505 is now in my closet collecting dust, and I see it as wasted space more than anything. I'm not one to be afraid of admitting I was wrong, and man was I wrong about digital. Don't get me wrong, I can definitely tell the difference, but I actually like the Kemper BETTER! :confused:

I am thinking of DI profiling and selling my 6505 and my Rivera RockCrusher that I was using to attenuate and direct in record and just sticking with Kemper... Has anyone made the full commitment? Do you regret it?

HELLLLLP lol
 
I've sold off lots of amps with Kemper around.
I do like to keep at least 1 big tube head around though for the feelz
 
We've been race testing one over here at the studio since wed, used it every way possible in different configurations, I must say I'm impressed. The cleans are fantastic, the lower to mid gain stuff is great, I would guess 85% - 90% as dynamic and touch responsive as the amps we compared it to, but not quite there. It did depend on the actual guitar and pickups used, so that's a good sign of how close they are. The high gains were more selective IMO, there were a group that sounded great, and quite a few that I would never use. He had loaded 2 bundles of outside patches that were highly reviewed, and again, some were really good, others not so much. The high gain seems to be not quite as touch responsive or "alive" as the actual amps. May be the way they were profiled, not sure, but it did feel like you were playing a modeler of the amp. We ran it through tube power amps with different loaded 412's to see if it made a big feel difference.. It did not...
Having said that, people cannot hear what you can't "feel" playing it, the profiles we liked, we really liked, even with the differences we felt. The effects were better than I expected after hearing what people said for the past year or so. Its easy to navigate, and could be equally applied to live use or the studio.
In full disclosure, Its not mine and I did not have a dime or a dog in this fight, I was just curious to see what everyone was talking about. I liked it, there is stuff I love about it, my life would be much easier if I used one compared to all the shit I have to go through to record, but at this point Im gonna hold out a bit longer. I already have the tones Im after, and fantastic mikes and mike pre's to record them with, so in the end, for me, it comes down to which one sounds better recorded. Given I have spent a ton of time with my amps, mike positions and pre settings, and only run the Kemper for a few days, so I'm sure its not as dialed in as it could be.
I'm optimistic about the future of these things, they are very, very close. In another year, everything could change, and I would welcome that. :thumbsup:
 
You'll still need real amps to steal sounds from.. Otherwise they are nothing original.

Maybe lift a barbell every once and a while..
 
The two can coexist, but I wouldnt completely give up one for the other though. You may one day pull out the tube amp and fall in love all over again. Not saying it will happen, but it could! If after numerous gigs and recording you still find the kemper blows away the tube amp then sell it with zero regrets. :thumbsup:
 
While I have heard many good Kemper tones, I would have to ask about the longevity of the processors and software in the Kemper/Fractal operating systems. After the initial cost will they still be fully functional without errors and software glitches 20 to 30 years out. I'm not against technology but sometimes analog has proven less fragile and has staying power... just a thought.
 
I wouldn't totally forego tube amps for the Kemper. I have a powered Kemper and it's what I use the majority of the time, for home playing, rehearsals, and live. However, I still hang on to my Engl Savage, and I'm still into buying tube amps, because I find I get the most out of the Kemper when I can create my own profiles for it. When I record I like micing up a tube amp rather than use my Kemper because I like being able to get a unique tone myself versus using ones someone else made. Then I take profiles of those sounds and have them for later use. My current main profile live, for instance, is a profile I took myself of my Savage. Buying profiles is cool, especially of amps I'll probably never be able to afford, but for me, the best sounding profiles are ones I take and have full control over.
 
I go through that also. Sometimes I get sick of my Axe-FX II, and start to think about how it is not as dynamic, not as natural, etc... then I turn on my Triple Recto and pedals, and many times I realize it doesn't sound as good as I remember. More fizzy, more noisy, not as much clarity, etc... and I think about how the Axe-FX sounds better sometimes, especially in clarity and having a clean signal. I always think it is the "grass is always greener....." syndrome, back and forth.....
 
I think of the Kemper in the same light as the Eventide H9. When you compare the H9 to stand alone pedals meant to do the same job as a particular preset, it does seem to fall short. But the versatility and ease of use can make up for that in a big way, especially when you're gigging and there's never been a single person in the history of the earth that is sitting in the crowd thinking "man that H9 delay sounds like shit, I hope this piece of shit gets crabs".

But if you have dog ears and are lucky enough to experience a 59 bassman, 70s Plexi, Hiwatt DR103, BE-100, Demeter TGA3 / TGP3 & VHT Classic racks, and that's the benchmark of where you want things to be sonically and in terms of feel.. Then no I don't believe any digital modelling amp is going to cut it, at least not at the moment with what's available. For this reason I've always stuck to the Demeter / VHT setup since I get the Bassman cleans, Plexi crunch, and Plexi on steroids all in on tube amp. Despite being 100w's the tone I get at lower volumes is quite nice, so I've become really really spoiled to say the least.

That standard is a case by case basis. For me I'll always opt for the individual pedal over the H9, and the real thing over a Kemper. Anyone who says thats a load of crap just buy the Kemper isn't wrong, just a different set of priorities. I want to be moved by the sound erupting from the speaker cabinet, some will get that from a Kemper and some won't.
 
I gave up on caring, to be honest. I realized that my perceived "tone worries" just didn't matter live. In the studio, I am a little more picky and I do prefer a good tube amp. But nobody ever knew when I was using a $3500 amp or a $450 amp or commented that my tone sounded worse. It is literally "whatever gets the job done easiest with the least amount of fuss" for me now.
 
I do a lot of high gain stuff usually. Occasionally I get to lower high gain stuff such as Alice in Chains or Green Day, but I have spent literally days surfing looking for good profiles that have clarity, are dynamic and feel alive for lack of a better term. I'm 110% happy with the Kemper because it allows me to do everything and record everything I want to without having to set up and tear down different rigs.

My current go to "performance" is comprised of a Peavey 6534+, H&K Tubemeister 36, a pair of Roland Jazz Chorus presets with different variations of effects, and a Twin Reverb. That single Performance is everything I need for my current project. I may expand with different variations of each setting but for the most part that's it.

I'm torn. I think I am going to DI profile my 6505+ and then A/B them a little bit.
 
So many of us here on the forum used to say that they both have their place. The tone from a great tube amp is a thing of beauty but a great modeler can give you an easy "straight to P.A." sound or be really handy for recordings. Not saying you can't mic a speaker, etc. but just makes it easier. I love all types of amps.
 
I almost went Kemper a few years ago... opted to collect a few tube heads instead. I still wonder if I got one years ago would I have still went the tube head route eventually? I still want one cause im just one of those guys thats wants one of each :lol: :LOL:
 
Don't know abut the Kemper, but I heard a great comparison between the AX8 and the new Axe FX III. The III actually sounds a tad more dynamic on the same preset settings. The low end also sounds rounder, which could have to do with a higher bit rate path. It just sounds more natural/organic. There were a few other improvements and much more DSP power that might make it worth it over a Kemper at this point. There are a lot of parameters, but they are sensibly laid out and include things I'd want access to like neg feedback, biasing, sag, and transformer and speaker compression & distortion with some great simple preamp voicing options as well. If you can get into a habit of only creating new sounds when you are really inspired, you won't spend all your time tweaking. I've been using modelers since 1996, and I only create or tweak a sound every few months or so. I mainly use a handful I really like anyway, and use various colouring plugins b4 them like with a real amp. Once you get a few amp sounds you really like, you will not want to stop using them.

It's not possible to get the precise response characters you want from a real amp unless you make circuit and component alterations. That's another route, but it's much more time consuming and expensive. The thing with modelers is it's really important to understand how all the parameters affect the sound b4 you start tweaking. Many are dependent on the settings of others, so just playing with them haphazardly will not produce the results you want. You can easily compromise the dynamic potential of an amp model by setting things the wrong way. FI, increasing neg feedback reduces touch-sensitivity and clips harder driven hard. Reducing amp bias increases unmusical crossover distortion and reduces even harmonics. Increasing bias drift cleans up the attack, but compresses the sound. I'd go over the manual to get a good grasp of everything.
 
I bought one 6 months after they first came out. Gigged with it for a couple years and sold it. I could not get past looking behind me and seeing a toaster and not an amp. Through a p.a. there was no difference in tone, it really is a great way to gig. I'll buy another one at some point, but always keep my amp.
As far as it lasting 20 years, as long as you keep the firmware updates, copies of your profiles, and a backup of your settings, you should be able to reload it and start fresh if needed. You should have a plan on how to recover from a software meltdown with any modeler you own. If it runs on code, it will crash.
 
Meh well kind of a humorous post to me. I went through like a 6 year phase where I was pretty much digital Axe FX Standard, Kemper, Axe FX 2. But playing out in bands awoke the need for tubes to really cut through in a mix. Since then I own 4 amps....3 tube and the Kemper was sold/traded off last year. I had some great times in those years but in the end whatever inspires you be it modeling, amps, pedals so freaking what.........just enjoy playing music...I do own a Mooer Preamp Live for recording purposes.......but tube amps and pedals are fun for me these days...
 
Having lived in both worlds I have to give Tubes the thumbs up. I played SS for years and never realized what I was missing till I returned to the tube amps.
 
guitarmike":3hy8aac4 said:
I bought one 6 months after they first came out. Gigged with it for a couple years and sold it. I could not get past looking behind me and seeing a toaster and not an amp. Through a p.a. there was no difference in tone, it really is a great way to gig. I'll buy another one at some point, but always keep my amp.
As far as it lasting 20 years, as long as you keep the firmware updates, copies of your profiles, and a backup of your settings, you should be able to reload it and start fresh if needed. You should have a plan on how to recover from a software meltdown with any modeler you own. If it runs on code, it will crash.
Click to expand...

I have very affectionately dubbed mine "the spaceship" lol

Any time I add or remove Profiles from the amp, I back everything up to my PC. I also have a multiple thumb drives in my guitar case for everything from Firmware, Profiles etc.
 
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