I went Kemper... and now I question my loyalty to tube amps

[PhloridaMan]

Having lived in both worlds I have to give Tubes the thumbs up. I played SS for years and never realized what I was missing till I returned to the tube amps.

I love tubes... LOVE them. When you are standing next to a tube amp, there is no doubt a different feel to them. That said, I am doing a lot more recording these days and much less playing out. Most of my musical projects lately are sending stems back and fourth to friends and family who I write stuff with since we all are spread across the east coast these days. I live in a Condo for now, so the 6505 just never gets played because at low volumes or attenuated, it doesn't sound as good as the Kemper at all. It has to be cranked and really spanking the speakers to put a grin on my face and then the HOA sends me letters...

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I could not get past looking behind me and seeing a toaster and not an amp. .

LOL, I was in a band once where live- opening for GLynchI had my toaster on top of a Mesa vertical 2x12. An excellent sounding rig that could get quite loud.
My guitar player on the other side of the stage? He brought 4 Marshall stacks- each one had (2) 4x12s. Yes, (8) 4x12s!
My side looked so empty, lol! Looks wise it was ridiculous- but I contend that (as a no-name opening band) he had to change not me. Plus, the tone sounded like bees on his end and he tended to get drunk and choke live. That band didn't last long.

 

[shred-o-holic]

Having lived in both worlds I have to give Tubes the thumbs up. I played SS for years and never realized what I was missing till I returned to the tube amps.

I love tubes... LOVE them. When you are standing next to a tube amp, there is no doubt a different feel to them. That said, I am doing a lot more recording these days and much less playing out. Most of my musical projects lately are sending stems back and fourth to friends and family who I write stuff with since we all are spread across the east coast these days. I live in a Condo for now, so the 6505 just never gets played because at low volumes or attenuated, it doesn't sound as good as the Kemper at all. It has to be cranked and really spanking the speakers to put a grin on my face and then the HOA sends me letters...

I can understand that reasoning and necessity. Playing thru monitors with the Kemper for me was always much quieter with the sleeping wife in the next room. Sometimes an OD boost can help out on the low volume issue with an amp.........sometimes not if the person does not like what the OD does...

 

[PhloridaMan]

Having lived in both worlds I have to give Tubes the thumbs up. I played SS for years and never realized what I was missing till I returned to the tube amps.

I love tubes... LOVE them. When you are standing next to a tube amp, there is no doubt a different feel to them. That said, I am doing a lot more recording these days and much less playing out. Most of my musical projects lately are sending stems back and fourth to friends and family who I write stuff with since we all are spread across the east coast these days. I live in a Condo for now, so the 6505 just never gets played because at low volumes or attenuated, it doesn't sound as good as the Kemper at all. It has to be cranked and really spanking the speakers to put a grin on my face and then the HOA sends me letters...

I can understand that reasoning and necessity. Playing thru monitors with the Kemper for me was always much quieter with the sleeping wife in the next room. Sometimes an OD boost can help out on the low volume issue with an amp.........sometimes not if the person does not like what the OD does...

I have an OD808 and a Precision Drive that I switch between from time to time.

One big thing I like about the Kemper is it has a ton of clarity and definition. It's like playing my favorite tube amp in HD... As out of practice of a player as I am though, that isn't really a good thing sometimes lol But it's helping me be a tighter player too.

The 6505 is currently sitting next to it and I am wiring up to profile... We will see what I think.

 

[shred-o-holic]

Having lived in both worlds I have to give Tubes the thumbs up. I played SS for years and never realized what I was missing till I returned to the tube amps.

I love tubes... LOVE them. When you are standing next to a tube amp, there is no doubt a different feel to them. That said, I am doing a lot more recording these days and much less playing out. Most of my musical projects lately are sending stems back and fourth to friends and family who I write stuff with since we all are spread across the east coast these days. I live in a Condo for now, so the 6505 just never gets played because at low volumes or attenuated, it doesn't sound as good as the Kemper at all. It has to be cranked and really spanking the speakers to put a grin on my face and then the HOA sends me letters...

I can understand that reasoning and necessity. Playing thru monitors with the Kemper for me was always much quieter with the sleeping wife in the next room. Sometimes an OD boost can help out on the low volume issue with an amp.........sometimes not if the person does not like what the OD does...

I have an OD808 and a Precision Drive that I switch between from time to time.

One big thing I like about the Kemper is it has a ton of clarity and definition. It's like playing my favorite tube amp in HD... As out of practice of a player as I am though, that isn't really a good thing sometimes lol But it's helping me be a tighter player too.

The 6505 is currently sitting next to it and I am wiring up to profile... We will see what I think.

I'm with you on clarity and definition. Which is why for an amp like a 6505 a boost is favorable using that and rolling back the presence. The Kemper is amazing for fine tuning definition. I enjoyed one for 4 years and Kemper is an amazing company as far as customer service. They hooked me up so good on a repair I feel guilty for ridding my KPA. But I just got hooked on real amps again it's strange how your ear preferences can change. I also want to try a Precision Drive even though I already own and love a Revv G3 and a Strymon Sunset...

 

[PBGas]

I can use either and be happy with them. Really, as pointed out if I am running into FOH, I'm happy with either my Axe III direct or my BE-50 with UA OX direct.

but always bring a backup for either!

 

[PhloridaMan]

 

[nothingeined]

I recently picked up a Kemper rack on a trade and I feel like I should of picked one up a long time ago. The amount of profiles available free and paid is astounding. I run it in conjunction with a Seymour Duncan Powerstage 170 and the combo works so well for me. I get to play maybe 2 hours total for a week just in front of my PC jamming along to youtube videos I have had a ton of amps and I just like the variety I get out of the profiles versus the amps. One day I will playing something with a Vox tone, next day all out gained Uberschall with a Fortin 33 boost profile for the brutalz. Plus having a small footprint in the room is really nice as well. I will eventually get another tube amp just to have around, but that will be way down the line.

 

[PhloridaMan]

I am absolutely astonished... I have been sitting here A/B comparing my actual 6505 to the profile I just made, and there is such a subtle difference it's unreal. I actually like the Kemper Profiles better as I feel like they have a little more definition/clarity.

I created a new thread with a link to the 3 profiles I created (before my neighbor came over to ask if there were aliens in my basement because apparently he was home and I live in a Condo lol)

Go over and check them out and leave me some feedback! I have never made a profile before and I think this came out incredible.

I am however, still torn on keeping the 6505... They are so plentiful and cheap I could always pick one up later on, but it might be nice to use the money to buy a different amp to profile and then keep repeating that process.

 

[squank]

While I have heard many good Kemper tones, I would have to ask about the longevity of the processors and software in the Kemper/Fractal operating systems. After the initial cost will they still be fully functional without errors and software glitches 20 to 30 years out. I'm not against technology but sometimes analog has proven less fragile and has staying power... just a thought.

A few years ago someone did a cost comparison between the Kemper and a similarly priced multi-channel tube head. Over the course of 10 years, the cost of the Kemper basically equals the cost of new tubes (power every 6 months, pre every 18 months) and the inevitable but infrequent amp repair costs. So you get a Kemper for basically the price of service/maintenance of a good tube amp.

Unlike modelers, some of which sounded pretty lousy when they first came out, the profiler kicked ass out of the box. And for anyone wondering about a 10 time frame of usability, I have had my Kemper for almost 7 years. It sounds so good that I don't see it ever needing an upgrade.

I will always own a tube head because I'm 50 and that's essentially all there was when I grew up. I have an Egnater Armageddon now, and it's awesome. But I could easily be happy with just the Kemper and a few pedals.

 

[Elric]

I don't doubt you. I feel similarly about my AxeFx rig. Playing some coveted amp is always a disappointment because I'm expecting it to rock my world and make me want to go back. But no it is always a let down and feels limited. The best digital rigs like the KPA and Axe, when you get the right outboard gear and control for them, are like having unlimited cosmic tone power. It sort of ruins the fun of the never ending amp flipping and collecting merry go around, though.

 

[GCKelloch]

Someone said they experienced a real tube amp cutting though better in a live situation. I can't think of anything about digital modeling technology that would be any different in that respect, provided it included the tube/OT/Speaker impedance reactance effect in the algorithm, which I think they all now do. It might be from the speaker cab it's plugged into or the mic model chosen. Mics with a strong proximity effect, and high end lift above 3kHz like an SM57 might actually not sound as clear as a more flat response mic which doesn't boost the low end or range above the 2~3kHz peak many guitar speakers have. For that matter, a flat/accurate mic model might be a better choice for your monitoring cab, or just run a global eq b4 the cab and shape the sound for better clarity.

 

[thrashinbatman]

I honestly can't tell the difference between my Kemper and my tube amps. A few weeks ago I ran my Kemper into my Mesa 4x12 at a gig for the first time and it sounded exactly like my Engl Savage with my TS9 in front of it. There are minor differences (probably), but unless I put them under a microscope I couldn't hear them. Maybe in other contexts the Kemper shows some flaws, but IMO in high-gain situations it's almost indistinguishable from a real amp.

 

[JimAnsell]

if money wasn't a thing, i'd keep a kemper around as the ultimate self indulgent practice/headphone amp.

I had 2, at 2 different points (oddly enough when both of my kids were under a year old, and tube amp-ing just wasn't happening), and i always went back to tube amps. you need to run that kemper through a nice tube power amp and 4x12 to come close to sounding "Right" in the room with a band. the FRFR stuff is alright, but just never felt or sounded right with a band in a room without that 4x12 pushing air.

Plus with the kemper, since the possibilities are so endless, i was finding myself spending more time worrying about obtaining, and tweaking profiles, which is also a lot of fun, but with my ADD, i need to just have a simple lay out in front of me that i can set and forget, and not have to go through menus to tweak. Although, out of all the processors, the kemper easily has the best interface with the smallest learning curve. Stupid simple, but like i said, i'll mess with it for hours before i start really playing. It also has the most realistic, and convincing tones right out of the box, out of all of the major processors. I just need the real thing.

thats just me...

 

[HellraiserJohnny]

Having lived in both worlds I have to give Tubes the thumbs up. I played SS for years and never realized what I was missing till I returned to the tube amps.

I love tubes... LOVE them. When you are standing next to a tube amp, there is no doubt a different feel to them. That said, I am doing a lot more recording these days and much less playing out. Most of my musical projects lately are sending stems back and fourth to friends and family who I write stuff with since we all are spread across the east coast these days. I live in a Condo for now, so the 6505 just never gets played because at low volumes or attenuated, it doesn't sound as good as the Kemper at all. It has to be cranked and really spanking the speakers to put a grin on my face and then the HOA sends me letters...

I can understand that reasoning and necessity. Playing thru monitors with the Kemper for me was always much quieter with the sleeping wife in the next room. Sometimes an OD boost can help out on the low volume issue with an amp.........sometimes not if the person does not like what the OD does...

I have an OD808 and a Precision Drive that I switch between from time to time.

One big thing I like about the Kemper is it has a ton of clarity and definition. It's like playing my favorite tube amp in HD... As out of practice of a player as I am though, that isn't really a good thing sometimes lol But it's helping me be a tighter player too.

The 6505 is currently sitting next to it and I am wiring up to profile... We will see what I think.

I'm with you on clarity and definition. Which is why for an amp like a 6505 a boost is favorable using that and rolling back the presence. The Kemper is amazing for fine tuning definition. I enjoyed one for 4 years and Kemper is an amazing company as far as customer service. They hooked me up so good on a repair I feel guilty for ridding my KPA. But I just got hooked on real amps again it's strange how your ear preferences can change. I also want to try a Precision Drive even though I already own and love a Revv G3 and a Strymon Sunset...

I went back to tube pre-amps and I have so much more punch and clarity, it's rediculous. The attack on the each note in a solo just blows me away. Chords are so thick, I cut though live mixes like a knife. I can play at a whisper volume and get the same effect and even drive into feedback. I could never get that feel from my SS Modlers. Yes I could get a good tone but I never had that "cut" in live situations. That was one of the big reasons why I went back to tubes. I remember when I could do all these things with my old hot rodded Marshalls. I still use the modlers in my studio rack for scratch tracks but when I lay down guitars, I'm out on the tube rig.

 

[ClintN667]

I sold my 6505+ and my pedalboard and went to Kemper. 6 months later I traded my Kemper for a Splawn Quick Rod and some cash. Took the cash and bought the pedals I sold off for the Kemper. I may grab another Kemper down the road but not at the expense of my amp. I also think individual pedals/amps have their own personalities and I like that and the modular aspect of it. I spent too much time tweaking knobs and switching profiles. Its just my personality though the Kemper is a great device. Since I switched back to analog I havent turned any dials after setting them except for volume, switching channels and turning my delay/reverb on and off.

As I said before I think its a great device and people should at least try it before turning their nose up at it. Maybe by the time I get ready to give it another try Kemper 2 or something else will be out.

 

[PhloridaMan]

I truthfully don't think they can really improve on the Kemper the way it is. It's super easy to use and does everything I ask. Not sure what more I could ask for.

 

[ClintN667]

I truthfully don't think they can really improve on the Kemper the way it is. It's super easy to use and does everything I ask. Not sure what more I could ask for.

I dont think there is a whole lot tone wise but I would have loved to profile effects.

 

[steve_k]

Seriously, is there a support group where I can seek help?

I traded an Engl Invader about 4 months ago now for a Kemper Rack Unpowered. I have since paired that with an ART SLA1 power amp and a Tech 21 Midi Moose and it has taken over my world. It's to the point where my 6505 is now in my closet collecting dust, and I see it as wasted space more than anything. I'm not one to be afraid of admitting I was wrong, and man was I wrong about digital. Don't get me wrong, I can definitely tell the difference, but I actually like the Kemper BETTER!

I am thinking of DI profiling and selling my 6505 and my Rivera RockCrusher that I was using to attenuate and direct in record and just sticking with Kemper... Has anyone made the full commitment? Do you regret it?

HELLLLLP lol

6505's are plentiful and easy to replace should you grow tired of the Kemper. I wouldn't sell anything that is rare and expensive to replace.

 

[thrashinbatman]

I truthfully don't think they can really improve on the Kemper the way it is. It's super easy to use and does everything I ask. Not sure what more I could ask for.

I dont think there is a whole lot tone wise but I would have loved to profile effects.

A Kemper 2 would probably just be functionality, i.e. shit like multiple simultaneous inputs or more flexible output choices (a lot of the modern Kemper's output options are compromises from what was initially intended and what people use it for nowadays), maybe multiple profiles at once. I could also see a stripped down Kemper player like an AX8. But it seems like Kemper are pretty uninterested in a new version; they seem to feel they have a lot of room to grow within the current model still.