improving the tone of your guitar?

[moltenmetalburn]

if your guitar doesnt sound good unplugged,..your at a disadvantage to begin with, nomatter what you have for pickups...the biggest mistake young guitarist make is to tune down, then they throw on the biggest set of piano wire they can find,..now the strings are so high off the fret board,..and there big bulky strings are so tight that it's impossible to play/sound good,...99% of the guitars were made for 9's....(get 9's with heavy high strings)...if there is any buzzing or dead strings,..islolate the problem one at a time and fix them,...adding mass to the head stock adds sustain (i have gone so far as to add a big hunk of steel to the head stock of an old guitar i had just as an experiment,...worked awesome!!)
if you have a plywood guitar or a guitar made from jungle wood,...your fighting a loosing battle,...hold a gibson sg in your right hand and a epiphone sg in the left,.......you'll feel the real difference,..

I have always tuned down and used 11-52.

I have no problem setting up the guitar correctly so the strings are not high off of the fretboard, with careful tweaking after each string change they are at exactly the height they should be. Every guitar I have ever owned did just fine with the heavy gauges when set up properly.

I chose heavier strings in order to get a heavier sound which they provide, tighter, fuller and crunchy. 9s sound so weak in comparison to me now. IMO thicker strings sound far better.

I also have a heavy hand and would break and bend 9's out of pitch far too easily. 11-52 is like butter for me.

Everyone has their own preference but your post is quite misleading; you have said it is impossible to play or sound good with heavy strings. Maybe for you it is...

what sounds better to the human ear,...a chord strummed on a bass,..or a chrord strummed on a guitar?....

This is your argument?

Not even the same octave so no comparison. Have you tuned a bass to the same octave as your guitar to compare if not you don't know which one sounds better either. My strings may be thicker and my tuning lower but I am no where near the octave my bassist plays in.

What about addressing the statement that "it's impossible to play/sound good" In lower tuning with heavy strings?

This is the portion of your previous post I disagree with and have pointed out.

To finally address your question sure the Human ear "prefers" mid-high to high frequencies over low frequencies. Have you forgotten its not that simple? The ear also prefers harmonic to inharmonic sounds.

Given most guys who tune down and use piano wire are playing under heavy distortion. distorted tube amps highlight second order harmonics increasing the pleasing qualities of the sound. you are essentially hearing less of the fundamental and more of the second order harmonics. The fundamental being lower is actually increasing the harmonic content in the range you are correctly describing as the most pleasing to the ear. my tuning accentuates the second order harmonics of the "C" note one octave above our tuning which is standard middle "C".

So you see I may be in fact accentuating just the range you are describing with my lower tuning and thicker strings while you in fact are accentuating an octave higher than middle "C".

My down tuned guitar with piano wire sound great , I'm sure you'll find others who agree here as well.

 

[droptrd]

I played 10s most of my life. Tried 9's and they felt like nothing to me. And they didnt have the "bigger string deffinition" the 10s had. I dont know how else to explain it. I moved to 11s a while ago and couldnt be happier. The tone and string deffinition is improved. Sure the switch ate my hand up for a few weeks, but I quickly got used to it. Now that my hand got stronger, my playing on my acoustic has improved too. I recently moved up to 13s on the ol' Martin. Bigger is better for tone on acoustics IMO. But on electrics you need to find the right balance between tone and playablity that fits your style.

My $.02

 

[sg guy]

sg guy, i think you are missing the point.

thicker strings do sound better on a guitar tuned for upper frequencies, a bass guitar is an octave lower than guitar and serves no purpose other than filling up the frequency spectrum of a band and holding the notes while also providing musical taste from the player to make things more interesting.

totally different and irrevalent than what we are trying to explain.

when i hit a D chord on my 10's that was something 9's cant give you. 11's on a 23.75 scale length guitar is close to the same tension as 10's on a 25.5 - it sounds heavier, fuller, solo's dont sound like a weak crying plea of help or fingernails on a chalkboard, and rhythms are much more solid - you can feel them in the guitar.

again - you are missing the point i believe..



well,...i think it is you that is missing the point,..but anyways,..different strokes (strums) for different folks i guess

from a tonal perspective do whatever feels right to you. 8's, 9's, 10's, 13's, whatever fits the style of music and the player's needs.

FWIW, on the yngwie strat i plan to build, i will do a hybrid set of 8's because i like that sqwaky character in a single coil pickup that smaller strings give you, yngwies tone cant be had on SRV's strat, the string guage difference makes it impossible.

 

[sg guy]

sg guy, i think you are missing the point.

thicker strings do sound better on a guitar tuned for upper frequencies, a bass guitar is an octave lower than guitar and serves no purpose other than filling up the frequency spectrum of a band and holding the notes while also providing musical taste from the player to make things more interesting.

totally different and irrevalent than what we are trying to explain.

when i hit a D chord on my 10's that was something 9's cant give you. 11's on a 23.75 scale length guitar is close to the same tension as 10's on a 25.5 - it sounds heavier, fuller, solo's dont sound like a weak crying plea of help or fingernails on a chalkboard, and rhythms are much more solid - you can feel them in the guitar.

again - you are missing the point i believe..





















thats funny,...because i believe its you and multenman that are missing the point,...and have actualy made my point!!!,...but at this time in my life of playing guitar,..i have no desire or need to argue on a forum,...so believe and do what you feel is best for you and your playing,...i think we have successfuly given both sides of the coin,..and i have no doubt a young guitarist will grab the heaviest strings he can find and tune his guitar to dropped z,..but i hope this sticks in his head and one day maybe he will try it,..and be happy with the results



from a tonal perspective do whatever feels right to you. 8's, 9's, 10's, 13's, whatever fits the style of music and the player's needs.

FWIW, on the yngwie strat i plan to build, i will do a hybrid set of 8's because i like that sqwaky character in a single coil pickup that smaller strings give you, yngwies tone cant be had on SRV's strat, the string guage difference makes it impossible.

 

[Random Hero]

Yeah I definitely need to use a gauge heavier string.
Going to move up to 10's. I know when I used them last time the Chords seemed fuller and wasnt sure if it was just in my head or not. But they felt stiff to play. I just need to get used to them. Hell I remember using 8's back in the 80s when I used to practice all the 'shredding' licks.

I detest anything but 9's. 8's sounds like shit. 10's feel like shit and sound almost too round. I like to have a percussive edge which 10's lack. So yeah... it again goes back to "What do you want?"

I think you need to try 10s some more. I used 9s for years and switch to 10s eighteen months ago and could never go back. 9s just feel and sound weak in comparison, and feel too thin and light. Then again, it could be worse, you could be claiming 9s in Eb sound/feel great

 

[Tawlks]

The truth is, tone is subjective, and some things will sound better to different people.

It's true that heavy strings are tighter and oscillate less when hit, and have more metal to vibrate through and more pull to the magnets in the pickup and all that, which will give a thicker sound...

So if being played by robots, 9s will sound weaker than 10s and weaker than 11s, but some people get a thicker sound out of 9s because of the way they play and the grip they have on the strings and the way they hit it, I personally use 11-50 and thick it makes me play both better aswell as more solidly and get a better sound out of my guitar.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

sg guy:

thats funny,...because i believe its you and multenman that are missing the point,...and have actualy made my point!!!,

I presented a well thought out argument to your rebuttal. you haven't actually made any point other than your original opinion.

...but at this time in my life of playing guitar,..i have no desire or need to argue on a forum,...so believe and do what you feel is best for you and your playing,

We are not starting arguments in the volatile, negative sense with you. This is a gear forum where we discuss gear and tone. I thought we were having a calm discussion regardless of the conflicting opinions. Sorry if it seems otherwise but we come here to discuss these things obsessively and passionately. Please don't confuse the passion for hostility. no vocal inflection on message boards.

...i think we have successfuly given both sides of the coin,..

I think you have provided nothing to back up your claims other than your opinion and a blanket statement that "it's impossible to play/sound good" downtuned with heavy strings.

and i have no doubt a young guitarist will grab the heaviest strings he can find and tune his guitar to dropped z,..but i hope this sticks in his head and one day maybe he will try it,..and be happy with the results

ok. suggesting he try other things can be useful indeed depends on his wants/needs.

from a tonal perspective do whatever feels right to you. 8's, 9's, 10's, 13's, whatever fits the style of music and the player's needs.

I completely agree with you, whatever works best for the player.

 

[Wagster]

Having a clean playing guitar. Usually this means having a little higher action. I've had a few friends tell me how they are not digging their tone. I picked up their guitars and notice that they had very low action with light strings. Not that this is necessary a bad thing but their guitars buzzed pretty bad. IMO this is one of the biggest tone killers. Those strings gotta ring!

 

[ke2]

The 9.5....
are they like the Heavy top strings....light bottoms?
Or the whole set is a hybrid gauged at 9.5?
Sounds interesting.......

D`addario`s variety is hybrid, chack it out

http://www.stringsandbeyond.com/dexnielgusts.html

Looks like the G and D-string are the same in their sets, actually

 

[Jim Soloway]

Improve your picking hand technique. Everything else comes a distant second.

 

[Wagster]

Improve your picking hand technique. Everything else comes a distant second.

That's the most important factor. Great advice!

 

[Motorpud]

What guitar is it?

I'd say pickups first!

+1 pickups first, then move up to 10s and get a good setup going onwheres there no buzzing and it should be like night and day

 

[ShaneV]

if your guitar doesnt sound good unplugged,..your at a disadvantage to begin with, nomatter what you have for pickups...the biggest mistake young guitarist make is to tune down, then they throw on the biggest set of piano wire they can find,..now the strings are so high off the fret board,..and there big bulky strings are so tight that it's impossible to play/sound good,...99% of the guitars were made for 9's....(get 9's with heavy high strings)...if there is any buzzing or dead strings,..islolate the problem one at a time and fix them,...adding mass to the head stock adds sustain (i have gone so far as to add a big hunk of steel to the head stock of an old guitar i had just as an experiment,...worked awesome!!)
if you have a plywood guitar or a guitar made from jungle wood,...your fighting a loosing battle,...hold a gibson sg in your right hand and a epiphone sg in the left,.......you'll feel the real difference,..

I have to disagree with that statement. Strats, Teles, Les Pauls, SGs, Flying Vs, Explorers and most other classic designs have been around since before 9s were the standard gauge (ie, they were all designed with heavier gauges in mind).

Having a clean playing guitar. Usually this means having a little higher action. I've had a few friends tell me how they are not digging their tone. I picked up their guitars and notice that they had very low action with light strings. Not that this is necessary a bad thing but their guitars buzzed pretty bad. IMO this is one of the biggest tone killers. Those strings gotta ring!

I agree completely. I have borderline OCD about making sure my guitars have zero buzz unplugged because it just makes them sound completely lifeless plugged in.

 

[Vrad]

Yeah I definitely need to use a gauge heavier string.
Going to move up to 10's. I know when I used them last time the Chords seemed fuller and wasnt sure if it was just in my head or not. But they felt stiff to play. I just need to get used to them. Hell I remember using 8's back in the 80s when I used to practice all the 'shredding' licks.

I detest anything but 9's. 8's sounds like shit. 10's feel like shit and sound almost too round. I like to have a percussive edge which 10's lack. So yeah... it again goes back to "What do you want?"

I think you need to try 10s some more. I used 9s for years and switch to 10s eighteen months ago and could never go back. 9s just feel and sound weak in comparison, and feel too thin and light. Then again, it could be worse, you could be claiming 9s in Eb sound/feel great

I've tried them on and off for the last 25 some-odd years. Every time I go back to 9's.

 

[Chubtone]

Raise your action. It makes a huge difference.

 

[Bronco]

making my guitar thicker/ballsier.

How much gain do you use? Reducing gain will always add more girth...

 

[moltenmetalburn]

Improve your picking hand technique. Everything else comes a distant second.

truth.

 

[Meathead]

Before spending money on additives I'd first try....

- First adjusting action to make it play comfortably
- Second adjust pickup heights trying to get a neutral tone, not too bright, not too dark (close to the strings isn't always best, starts sounding congested) You'll really notice a difference in the tone with just a few screw turns.
Usually this can correct things for me unless the pickups really aren't matched for the guitar.

If you can't get the guitar sounding close to neutral by adjusting pickup heights, consider changing pickups.
Browse manufactures pickups on their websites looking at their specs. They usually have a chart that says how bright/dark they are.
Some guitar's need help to sound brighter, some are very bright and need taming.

 

[Digital Jams]

Improve your picking hand technique. Everything else comes a distant second.

By monitoring my progression the past 5-6 years I agree 100%. I say this from a not so great player with big room for improvement.

Also agree about a proper set-up and a tad higher action.

 

[70strathead]

If you're guitar doesnt resonate and vibrate unplugged close to an acoustic guitar then you may be trying to polish a turd. You can only do so much with pickups, strings, etc...if it does ring to your satisfaction unplugged, then you can epxeriement from there. I'm not a fan of low action because i think the strings need room to vibrate and breathe, i also found lowering the pickups as close to the body without sacrificing too much sustain ( at least the bass side) gives you a cleaner, rounder tone when plugged in. my two cents. I'm a die hard strat player so i have my own theories about improving the tone that some people may disagree, so I'll just keep those opinions to myself. : )

A