It's Really, REALLY hard to beat a (Well-Tuned and Maintained) Old Plexi

[hellzington]

A lot of guitar players use magical thinking when it comes to gear. Most don't think of amps as a curated collections of filters and gain stages as dictated by another man's ear, or more cynically, a committee's product design done on a budget for the purposes of maximum market viability. Instead, guitar players tend to think of amps as monolithic black boxes that produce sound somewhere between "awful" and "perfect" on a sliding scale and they just are what they are, forever.

Basically, people like this have a kind of Excalibur Syndrome, where they think either a piece of gear is perfect and pure for purpose in the state they first discover it, or it is not. They think it's fine for some dude who calls themselves an amp designer to pull whatever selection of hundreds of components out of the ether to do what they do, but the moment someone else personalizes any single part of that circuit for their needs, well the amp is "ruined" because it's no longer "pure" or whatever. Any piece of gear is nothing more than a starting platform. Mod it to the moon and back if that's what gets you were you want to go.

I cannot really even begin to describe my disdain for "vintage purism." It totally misses the point. To me, the entire reason gear exists is so musicians can have tools that translate the ideas in their heads to reality. That's it. The purpose of a Les Paul or a Strat is not to be produced one specific way and kept totally unchanged and unpersonalized for 100 years so some asshole collector can point to it in a pile of other gear in their collection and fondle themselves while bragging about how "period correct" it is as it sits there and never gets played. Fuck that guy.

Do you have a guitar with a neck that fits your hand exactly and that resonates in just the right way, but the pickups are a little too low output? Welp, too bad. Better throw the baby out with the bathwater and sell it because it didn't come out of the box exactly perfect for you, specifically. Forget that the turn-key solution of the perfect pickups for you and that guitar absolutely exist and can be swapped out seamlessly. Not good enough because they weren't already there when the guitar happened to enter my field of view for the first time. Do you have an amp that is 90% what you want and all it would need to get 99% there is to change or add of a couple of components? Sorry, better sell it right away, otherwise Collector Cantplay McHordesalot might put his nose up at it 80 years down the road.

Couldn't agree more with this and I think what you are describing is why a lot of guitar communities turn toxic. I don't mind collectors and I get that they are after a certain thing that most players are not, but they are very judgmental and narrow-minded.

The other day, I posted the video at the top of this thread to a Facebook community for Marshall amps and the top comment wasn't something like, "Hey man, nice playing and cool sound," or "Wow that Marshall sounds incredible!" (Hell, even "Your tone sucks, bro.") No, it was: "There is no 1970 Plexi." Then a bunch of other assholes chimed in to say the same, or that the amp was "modded," or that I wasn't demonstrating it's stock sound because I used a Variac. There wasn't one positive comment. Not one.

These assholes are those vintage purists you're describing and those types of guys are what is wrong with guitar communities. They don't even care how good or bad the amp sounded, how good or bad my playing was, my note composition or anything else. They're only concerned with the "originality" of the amp components or whether it has a plexiglass panel. Who cares? Plexiglass panels don't make your amp sound any different. Let me tell you how much time EVH spent thinking about the plexiglass panel on his Super Lead: Zero. And these are the same guys that love Jimmy Page and his tone, but look down on "metal panel" or non-P2P 70s Marshalls. You know, the ones Page actually used. And again, let me tell you how much time Jimmy Page spent thinking about the metal panel on his Super Lead: Zero. I hate people like those guys because they turn otherwise fun hobbies into negative experiences. If you aren't having fun with this stuff, you're doing it wrong. Like you said, fuck those guys.

One more story. I had a guy buy my old Gibson ES-339 off Reverb. It had been upgraded from the stock '57 Classics to a Lollar Imperial Low Wind set. Before he bought it, he asked if I still had the stock pickups. I told him I did and he replied, "Good, because I want to return it to stock." I said, "Hey man, that's cool. If you buy it, it's yours and you can do whatever you want; but, I'm going to tell you outright that the Lollars are a huge improvement over the '57 Classics." He didn't respond, bought the guitar, and weeks went by. Finally, months later he messaged me again on Reverb and said something along the lines of, "I restored the guitar to stock but the '57 Classics didn't sound as good as the pickups you had in it, so I ended up putting that Lollar set back in. Just wanted to let you know." I mean, at least this guy had the balls to admit he was wrong but the whole thing was just so psycho. He was obsessed with returning it to stock because everyone on snobby guitar forums have told him that stock is "the way." Then he actually used his EARS. So frustrating!

 

[harddriver]

Isn't the filtering a part of it though? I reduced the filtering in my 72 50 to 32/500 in the pi/screens and 16/500 in the preamp. The feel changed for the better. Typical metal panels are 50/500 throughout vs a 68 spec.

Yes there is lower filtering with the 67 and 68's but even with the higher filtering on my 69 it sounded just as good as my 68 with less of a chance of ghosting with the higher filtering, I just didn't want to get too in the weeds but you are 100% correct.

Just going off of memory the 67/68's were 32uf mains 16uf screens, 16uf or 32uf on each preamp nodes and 64uf or 100uf on the PI. The 69's and up were 50uf mains, 50 uf screens, 50uf on each preamp nodes and 100uf on the PI.

I'd say the lower filtering does make a difference for some people in how the amp feels and responds but the higher value filtering isn't far off IMHO it just depends on what you like.

 

[heavision]

Couldn't agree more with this and I think what you are describing is why a lot of guitar communities turn toxic. I don't mind collectors and I get that they are after a certain thing that most players are not, but they are very judgmental and narrow-minded.

The other day, I posted the video at the top of this thread to a Facebook community for Marshall amps and the top comment wasn't something like, "Hey man, nice playing and cool sound," or "Wow that Marshall sounds incredible!" (Hell, even "Your tone sucks, bro.") No, it was: "There is no 1970 Plexi." Then a bunch of other assholes chimed in to say the same, or that the amp was "modded," or that I wasn't demonstrating it's stock sound because I used a Variac. There wasn't one positive comment. Not one.

These assholes are those vintage purists you're describing and those types of guys are what is wrong with guitar communities. They don't even care how good or bad the amp sounded, how good or bad my playing was, my note composition or anything else. They're only concerned with the "originality" of the amp components or whether it has a plexiglass panel. Who cares? Plexiglass panels don't make your amp sound any different. Let me tell you how much time EVH spent thinking about the plexiglass panel on his Super Lead: Zero. And these are the same guys that love Jimmy Page and his tone, but look down on "metal panel" or non-P2P 70s Marshalls. You know, the ones Page actually used. And again, let me tell you how much time Jimmy Page spent thinking about the metal panel on his Super Lead: Zero. I hate people like those guys because they turn otherwise fun hobbies into negative experiences. If you aren't having fun with this stuff, you're doing it wrong. Like you said, fuck those guys.

One more story. I had a guy buy my old Gibson ES-339 off Reverb. It had been upgraded from the stock '57 Classics to a Lollar Imperial Low Wind set. Before he bought it, he asked if I still had the stock pickups. I told him I did and he replied, "Good, because I want to return it to stock." I said, "Hey man, that's cool. If you buy it, it's yours and you can do whatever you want; but, I'm going to tell you outright that the Lollars are a huge improvement over the '57 Classics." He didn't respond, bought the guitar, and weeks went by. Finally, months later he messaged me again on Reverb and said something along the lines of, "I restored the guitar to stock but the '57 Classics didn't sound as good as the pickups you had in it, so I ended up putting that Lollar set back in. Just wanted to let you know." I mean, at least this guy had the balls to admit he was wrong but the whole thing was just so psycho. He was obsessed with returning it to stock because everyone on snobby guitar forums have told him that stock is "the way." Then he actually used his EARS. So frustrating!

Totally.

I’m with you guys; I have no problem whatsoever with collectors or people who dig “vintage correct” gear or whatever. It’s a cool hobby/interest and it’s cool that guys are into it. I even learn stuff from them now and again.

I think the friction appears when they barge into the player’s community and start bitching about the minutiae of vintage this or vintage that. “Dude, I want my shit to sound good, not ‘correct.’”

If we’re talking about some vintage amp being “accurate”, that’s one thing. If we’re talking about it sounding “killer”, that’s something else.

But yeah, personally I don’t give a fuck about anything but tone, and reliability.

 

[Philhouse]

Couldn't agree more with this and I think what you are describing is why a lot of guitar communities turn toxic. I don't mind collectors and I get that they are after a certain thing that most players are not, but they are very judgmental and narrow-minded.

The other day, I posted the video at the top of this thread to a Facebook community for Marshall amps and the top comment wasn't something like, "Hey man, nice playing and cool sound," or "Wow that Marshall sounds incredible!" (Hell, even "Your tone sucks, bro.") No, it was: "There is no 1970 Plexi." Then a bunch of other assholes chimed in to say the same, or that the amp was "modded," or that I wasn't demonstrating it's stock sound because I used a Variac. There wasn't one positive comment. Not one.

These assholes are those vintage purists you're describing and those types of guys are what is wrong with guitar communities. They don't even care how good or bad the amp sounded, how good or bad my playing was, my note composition or anything else. They're only concerned with the "originality" of the amp components or whether it has a plexiglass panel. Who cares? Plexiglass panels don't make your amp sound any different. Let me tell you how much time EVH spent thinking about the plexiglass panel on his Super Lead: Zero. And these are the same guys that love Jimmy Page and his tone, but look down on "metal panel" or non-P2P 70s Marshalls. You know, the ones Page actually used. And again, let me tell you how much time Jimmy Page spent thinking about the metal panel on his Super Lead: Zero. I hate people like those guys because they turn otherwise fun hobbies into negative experiences. If you aren't having fun with this stuff, you're doing it wrong. Like you said, fuck those guys.

One more story. I had a guy buy my old Gibson ES-339 off Reverb. It had been upgraded from the stock '57 Classics to a Lollar Imperial Low Wind set. Before he bought it, he asked if I still had the stock pickups. I told him I did and he replied, "Good, because I want to return it to stock." I said, "Hey man, that's cool. If you buy it, it's yours and you can do whatever you want; but, I'm going to tell you outright that the Lollars are a huge improvement over the '57 Classics." He didn't respond, bought the guitar, and weeks went by. Finally, months later he messaged me again on Reverb and said something along the lines of, "I restored the guitar to stock but the '57 Classics didn't sound as good as the pickups you had in it, so I ended up putting that Lollar set back in. Just wanted to let you know." I mean, at least this guy had the balls to admit he was wrong but the whole thing was just so psycho. He was obsessed with returning it to stock because everyone on snobby guitar forums have told him that stock is "the way." Then he actually used his EARS. So frustrating!

I think it's just part of the nature of social media, people like to be contrarians and to point out the exceptions to any example, just to gain attention and troll. Basic sad fuckwittery. Only THEY know the real secrets and truth guys, listen up!!
Paying off compliments is far too easy to just fade into obscurity of comments.

 

[Racerxrated]

Couldn't agree more with this and I think what you are describing is why a lot of guitar communities turn toxic. I don't mind collectors and I get that they are after a certain thing that most players are not, but they are very judgmental and narrow-minded.

The other day, I posted the video at the top of this thread to a Facebook community for Marshall amps and the top comment wasn't something like, "Hey man, nice playing and cool sound," or "Wow that Marshall sounds incredible!" (Hell, even "Your tone sucks, bro.") No, it was: "There is no 1970 Plexi." Then a bunch of other assholes chimed in to say the same, or that the amp was "modded," or that I wasn't demonstrating it's stock sound because I used a Variac. There wasn't one positive comment. Not one.

These assholes are those vintage purists you're describing and those types of guys are what is wrong with guitar communities. They don't even care how good or bad the amp sounded, how good or bad my playing was, my note composition or anything else. They're only concerned with the "originality" of the amp components or whether it has a plexiglass panel. Who cares? Plexiglass panels don't make your amp sound any different. Let me tell you how much time EVH spent thinking about the plexiglass panel on his Super Lead: Zero. And these are the same guys that love Jimmy Page and his tone, but look down on "metal panel" or non-P2P 70s Marshalls. You know, the ones Page actually used. And again, let me tell you how much time Jimmy Page spent thinking about the metal panel on his Super Lead: Zero. I hate people like those guys because they turn otherwise fun hobbies into negative experiences. If you aren't having fun with this stuff, you're doing it wrong. Like you said, fuck those guys.

One more story. I had a guy buy my old Gibson ES-339 off Reverb. It had been upgraded from the stock '57 Classics to a Lollar Imperial Low Wind set. Before he bought it, he asked if I still had the stock pickups. I told him I did and he replied, "Good, because I want to return it to stock." I said, "Hey man, that's cool. If you buy it, it's yours and you can do whatever you want; but, I'm going to tell you outright that the Lollars are a huge improvement over the '57 Classics." He didn't respond, bought the guitar, and weeks went by. Finally, months later he messaged me again on Reverb and said something along the lines of, "I restored the guitar to stock but the '57 Classics didn't sound as good as the pickups you had in it, so I ended up putting that Lollar set back in. Just wanted to let you know." I mean, at least this guy had the balls to admit he was wrong but the whole thing was just so psycho. He was obsessed with returning it to stock because everyone on snobby guitar forums have told him that stock is "the way." Then he actually used his EARS. So frustrating!

Bottom line is, YOU own the gear and can do any damn thing you want to it. In the end? What Jeremy did made it into a 68 Plexi circuit, and it sounds killer. Is it a 68 Plexi? No. But it sounds damn close to one, like my 72. And, we aren't paying 6-10K for the EVH upcharge 1968 12 series Plexi.

We can sit back, play our amps every day and love doing it. I'm super stoked about the tone my amp puts out; it amazes me how much damn gain it has...love it.

 

[anomaly]

I'm not sure what you mean? I didn't do any dialing in. Everything is on 10.

I feel you that it's not an "original" sound, but it's "that" sound if you know what I mean. If you wanted to get a more original sound, you'd have to do something like choose an unconventional speaker cabinet, jumper it and set the channels unusually, change more values more drastically, or mod it. Super Leads kind of just have one sound, then the rest is up to you (hands, speakers, pedals, etc.)

Ya, you're absolutely right. I agree with all that. It's a great platform to use pedals and shit, and there's always the option to use different speakers, or speakers that one might not usually use.

 

[romanianreaper]

Thanks man! It’s called platinum metallic. You can find it on early to mid 2000s PRS guitars. I personally prefer the standards. This is a 2006 Standard 22 that I had Lollar Imperial high winds put in. It weighs less than 7 pounds even with the trem!

Hey man great sounding amp! Great tones. I had a Lollar Imperial in a custom guitar I used to have and was a nice pickup.

 

[hellzington]

Hey man great sounding amp! Great tones. I had a Lollar Imperial in a custom guitar I used to have and was a nice pickup.

I actually just recommended this High Wind set to my friend today. They're killer pickups and very consistent, too.