James Hetfield tube choice?

[PhilipJ]

Can anyone confirm that Hetfield uses all EL34's in his VH4? Does anyone also know what they are biased at, and also what he uses for preamp tubes?

 

[steve_k]

Can anyone confirm that Hetfield uses all EL34's in his VH4? Does anyone also know what they are biased at, and also what he uses for preamp tubes?

James uses 34's and stock preamp tubes. Don't know what they are biased at but I am sure it is near the factory recommendation. Search posts on here for Peter Stapfer. He serviced Jame's amps on tour last year.

Steve

 

[frantic77]

i heard about 6l6.
wasn't that tuning room amp loaded with 6550?

 

[RJF]

Not to be a jerk, but who really cares? If there wasn't enough obsession with Hetfield and Adam Jones before, now we want to know his bias settings?

How about this, try a few different tubes, both pre and power, and choose a setup that sounds best to you.

 

[sdhnc123]

I've tried Ruby EL34, Winged C EL34, JJ KT77, and 5881 in my VH4S. For modern metal and the clean tones, the 5881s (or 6L6s) are definitely the best. My amp tech and my brother (both guitar players) agree with my conclusion that 6L6s sound best in the VH4 for modern and metal tones.

EL34 type tubes that I tried out:
Ruby EL34 (stock tubes) sounded like a pillow was over the speakers. In my opinion, these tubes are absolutely horrible.
JJ KT77s have more highs, more lows, and less mids than the Ruby EL34. They were better than the Ruby EL34s, but far from great.
Winged C EL34 sounded better than the Ruby EL34, but not great for modern metal. I liked these about as much as the JJ KT77s.

5881(6L6) vs EL34(KT77) in the VH4:

5881 has more fizzy highs -- EL34 has very little fizzy highs
5881 has less mids -- EL34 has more mids
5881 mids are looser -- EL34 mids are STIFF, hard, and compressed
5881 has more of a spongy pick attack -- EL34 has an extremely immediate pick attack
5881 has more individual note clarity in the cleans during chords -- EL34 sounds like a wall of sound during chords (less individual clarity)

Which is better depends on your style. If you play modern metal, you will like 5881 or 6L6 types. If you want a better clean tone, you will like 5881s or 6L6s. If you like to play 80s metal, you will probably like the EL34 types.

I was amazed how different the pick attack felt in the 5881s compared to the EL34. In the VH4, the 5881 gives a little sag during the pick attack. The 5881s felt like a Mesa amp (more spongy). EL34s were extremely tight in the pick attack.

Just to give you an idea of the other equipment that was in the signal chain when I made my judgements:
--Ibanez with EMG 85 in bridge and SD Blackout in the neck
--Two 412 Mesa Rectifier cabinets loaded with Vintage 30s
--effects loop not used

 

[steve_k]

I've tried Ruby EL34, Winged C EL34, JJ KT77, and 5881 in my VH4S. For modern metal and the clean tones, the 5881s (or 6L6s) are definitely the best. My amp tech and my brother (both guitar players) agree with my conclusion that 6L6s sound best in the VH4 for modern and metal tones.

EL34 type tubes that I tried out:
Ruby EL34 (stock tubes) sounded like a pillow was over the speakers. In my opinion, these tubes are absolutely horrible.
JJ KT77s have more highs, more lows, and less mids than the Ruby EL34. They were better than the Ruby EL34s, but far from great.
Winged C EL34 sounded better than the Ruby EL34, but not great for modern metal. I liked these about as much as the JJ KT77s.

5881(6L6) vs EL34(KT77) in the VH4:

5881 has more fizzy highs -- EL34 has very little fizzy highs
5881 has less mids -- EL34 has more mids
5881 mids are looser -- EL34 mids are STIFF, hard, and compressed
5881 has more of a spongy pick attack -- EL34 has an extremely immediate pick attack
5881 has more individual note clarity in the cleans during chords -- EL34 sounds like a wall of sound during chords (less individual clarity)

Which is better depends on your style. If you play modern metal, you will like 5881 or 6L6 types. If you want a better clean tone, you will like 5881s or 6L6s. If you like to play 80s metal, you will probably like the EL34 types.

I was amazed how different the pick attack felt in the 5881s compared to the EL34. In the VH4, the 5881 gives a little sag during the pick attack. The 5881s felt like a Mesa amp (more spongy). EL34s were extremely tight in the pick attack.

Just to give you an idea of the other equipment that was in the signal chain when I made my judgements:
--Ibanez with EMG 85 in bridge and SD Blackout in the neck
--Two 412 Mesa Rectifier cabinets loaded with Vintage 30s
--effects loop not used

Well, I think people would argue with you and your brother in your assessment. But, its your ears and your amp and your opinion. Nobody will take that from you.

6L6's are going to be thinner and less headroom. Put some volume on it and reassess. If this is the tone that drives it home for you, then that is great. You will miss out on the bottom end thump that the VH4 can give you.

5881's you need to be careful with. They handle about 350V at the plate as opposed to an SED 6L6GC or EL34 which is good for over 500V. In a class AB mode, you have all 4 tubes push/pulling. Drop a tube out from failure and it goes out of balance while you are playing and be ready for the domino effect. You will be picking plastic/glass out of the chassis for days.

The above is also why you have sag and less pick attack with 5881's. The tubes are saturated as soon as you turn the amp on run.

Peter went with the Ruby's before as a stock tube because of the reliability issues with tubes at the time. Me, I am an SED fan and put 34's in all my amps. But, I am buying a few matched quads at at time, not a few hundred.

A little hint for you is that the VH4 is much more responsive to preamp tube changes than most amps. Watch which you use though and cathode follower positions vs. tube selection. Try a few NOS tubes.

Your biggest problem with not fully taking advantage of what the VH4 has to offer is the Mesa cab with rear mount V30's. These cabs are built around an amp designed for scooped mids and chugga-chugga tone. And, it does it in spades. The VH4 is not that amp and has loads of lower and upper mids that it needs to bring out. Through the Mesa, a VH4 at lower volumes is going to sound like ass with a flubby tone and lots of farting. Not to get into your wallet, but try the head with any front loaded cab with V30's and you will be amazed. That's where the blanket comes off.

You can stay busy for years dialing it in or take advantage of what others have already done. There are heaps of posts on here. Remember though, it is opinion - not right or wrong. You do need to watch the 5881's though.

Steve

 

[Peter Diezel]

We delivered the last VH4 with 6550s but he
used 6L6 in the past.

 

[PhilipJ]

Not to be a jerk, but who really cares? If there wasn't enough obsession with Hetfield and Adam Jones before, now we want to know his bias settings?

How about this, try a few different tubes, both pre and power, and choose a setup that sounds best to you.

I own a recording studio. I'm well aware of how to listen for a preferred sound. I'm also aware of how to weed out bad opinions, and go straight to people who have sounds that you like and see what they use in order to start with a solid foundation of information and parts lists, thus enabling one to save hundreds and hundreds of dollars not buying 13 tubes x times over.

Adam Jones and James Hetfield have good sounds (I'm well aware that they blend other amps) and so I am curious to learn about how they have setup their amps, and biasing matters especially for 6550 tubes because they run hot, and some guys like to drive their tubes harder.

So, not to be a jerk, but I would rather get a forum dude's panties in a bunch and just do a little asking and research to save a bunch of time and money.

 

[ericsabbath]

funny thing is that I hated the VH4 tone until I heard someone that did NOT try to dial it to sound like James

 

[PhilipJ]

funny thing is that I hated the VH4 tone until I heard someone that did NOT try to dial it to sound like James

I hear you, man. I'm definitely not trying to sound like Hetfield. I want my own town, and my clients mostly want their own tone. I just wanted to see what someone that I think has a good thick tone uses for tubes. That would be just one of the many sets of info that I would gather to determine what my first tube purchase would be. I would then set up the amp, play it for a while with a few different guitars and cabs, and go from there.

I agree with your comment, because no matter how much you trial to dial in Hetfield's sound, you will never get it. The biggest reason is that most of his tone comes from his robot-from-hell right hand. Even looking past that, using his settings on a VH4 alone might be detrimental to the quest, considering that other aspects of his tone also come from other amps, which is why I stated that in my first post. He also uses 2 Mesa Traxis w/ Mesa Strategy 400, Mesa Custom EQ, Behringer Gate, a little blend of a Krank Revolution and a Kranenstein, custom iso cabs for studio use...and the list goes on.

But that doesn't mean that I can't start to get a good tone for myself or clients by researching what the big players in the game use for their sound. I get annoyed when people jump to conclusions about things like this without even asking me. It's all good, though. We're all here basically for the same reason; to get nasty, world-crushing, pace-maker stopping, hate-inducing guitar tone. Woot!

 

[PhilipJ]

We delivered the last VH4 with 6550s but he
used 6L6 in the past.

Did you deliver it with 6550's because it was still when you used them for stock tubes, or because they specifically asked for them?

 

[PhilipJ]

I've tried Ruby EL34, Winged C EL34, JJ KT77, and 5881 in my VH4S. For modern metal and the clean tones, the 5881s (or 6L6s) are definitely the best. My amp tech and my brother (both guitar players) agree with my conclusion that 6L6s sound best in the VH4 for modern and metal tones.

EL34 type tubes that I tried out:
Ruby EL34 (stock tubes) sounded like a pillow was over the speakers. In my opinion, these tubes are absolutely horrible.
JJ KT77s have more highs, more lows, and less mids than the Ruby EL34. They were better than the Ruby EL34s, but far from great.
Winged C EL34 sounded better than the Ruby EL34, but not great for modern metal. I liked these about as much as the JJ KT77s.

5881(6L6) vs EL34(KT77) in the VH4:

5881 has more fizzy highs -- EL34 has very little fizzy highs
5881 has less mids -- EL34 has more mids
5881 mids are looser -- EL34 mids are STIFF, hard, and compressed
5881 has more of a spongy pick attack -- EL34 has an extremely immediate pick attack
5881 has more individual note clarity in the cleans during chords -- EL34 sounds like a wall of sound during chords (less individual clarity)

Which is better depends on your style. If you play modern metal, you will like 5881 or 6L6 types. If you want a better clean tone, you will like 5881s or 6L6s. If you like to play 80s metal, you will probably like the EL34 types.

I was amazed how different the pick attack felt in the 5881s compared to the EL34. In the VH4, the 5881 gives a little sag during the pick attack. The 5881s felt like a Mesa amp (more spongy). EL34s were extremely tight in the pick attack.

Just to give you an idea of the other equipment that was in the signal chain when I made my judgements:
--Ibanez with EMG 85 in bridge and SD Blackout in the neck
--Two 412 Mesa Rectifier cabinets loaded with Vintage 30s
--effects loop not used

Well, I think people would argue with you and your brother in your assessment. But, its your ears and your amp and your opinion. Nobody will take that from you.

6L6's are going to be thinner and less headroom. Put some volume on it and reassess. If this is the tone that drives it home for you, then that is great. You will miss out on the bottom end thump that the VH4 can give you.

5881's you need to be careful with. They handle about 350V at the plate as opposed to an SED 6L6GC or EL34 which is good for over 500V. In a class AB mode, you have all 4 tubes push/pulling. Drop a tube out from failure and it goes out of balance while you are playing and be ready for the domino effect. You will be picking plastic/glass out of the chassis for days.

The above is also why you have sag and less pick attack with 5881's. The tubes are saturated as soon as you turn the amp on run.

Peter went with the Ruby's before as a stock tube because of the reliability issues with tubes at the time. Me, I am an SED fan and put 34's in all my amps. But, I am buying a few matched quads at at time, not a few hundred.

A little hint for you is that the VH4 is much more responsive to preamp tube changes than most amps. Watch which you use though and cathode follower positions vs. tube selection. Try a few NOS tubes.

Your biggest problem with not fully taking advantage of what the VH4 has to offer is the Mesa cab with rear mount V30's. These cabs are built around an amp designed for scooped mids and chugga-chugga tone. And, it does it in spades. The VH4 is not that amp and has loads of lower and upper mids that it needs to bring out. Through the Mesa, a VH4 at lower volumes is going to sound like ass with a flubby tone and lots of farting. Not to get into your wallet, but try the head with any front loaded cab with V30's and you will be amazed. That's where the blanket comes off.

You can stay busy for years dialing it in or take advantage of what others have already done. There are heaps of posts on here. Remember though, it is opinion - not right or wrong. You do need to watch the 5881's though.

Steve

Thanks for the help, Steve. What do you think about the comment about EL34's not sounding good for modern metal and making it sound like a blanket is over the speakers?
Also, could you expand on his post that says that 6l6 are great for metal, but you said that 6l6 sound thin and less headroom?

 

[EXPcustom]

Not to be a jerk, but who really cares? If there wasn't enough obsession with Hetfield and Adam Jones before, now we want to know his bias settings?

How about this, try a few different tubes, both pre and power, and choose a setup that sounds best to you.

He already posted but he has a studio, and if you have the Het tones or Jonez tonez or Cantrell tonez dialed in that equals big money.

 

[Ventura]

I've tried Ruby EL34, Winged C EL34, JJ KT77, and 5881 in my VH4S. For modern metal and the clean tones, the 5881s (or 6L6s) are definitely the best. My amp tech and my brother (both guitar players) agree with my conclusion that 6L6s sound best in the VH4 for modern and metal tones.

EL34 type tubes that I tried out:
Ruby EL34 (stock tubes) sounded like a pillow was over the speakers. In my opinion, these tubes are absolutely horrible.
JJ KT77s have more highs, more lows, and less mids than the Ruby EL34. They were better than the Ruby EL34s, but far from great.
Winged C EL34 sounded better than the Ruby EL34, but not great for modern metal. I liked these about as much as the JJ KT77s.

5881(6L6) vs EL34(KT77) in the VH4:

5881 has more fizzy highs -- EL34 has very little fizzy highs
5881 has less mids -- EL34 has more mids
5881 mids are looser -- EL34 mids are STIFF, hard, and compressed
5881 has more of a spongy pick attack -- EL34 has an extremely immediate pick attack
5881 has more individual note clarity in the cleans during chords -- EL34 sounds like a wall of sound during chords (less individual clarity)

Which is better depends on your style. If you play modern metal, you will like 5881 or 6L6 types. If you want a better clean tone, you will like 5881s or 6L6s. If you like to play 80s metal, you will probably like the EL34 types.

I was amazed how different the pick attack felt in the 5881s compared to the EL34. In the VH4, the 5881 gives a little sag during the pick attack. The 5881s felt like a Mesa amp (more spongy). EL34s were extremely tight in the pick attack.

Just to give you an idea of the other equipment that was in the signal chain when I made my judgements:
--Ibanez with EMG 85 in bridge and SD Blackout in the neck
--Two 412 Mesa Rectifier cabinets loaded with Vintage 30s
--effects loop not used

I saw the rest of this thread too, but I have to chime in - the 6550's are the bee's knees when it comes to DELIVERING the PUNCH!! I've had 6L6, EL34, and 6550's - the latter KILL... And ya, albeit they run hot, the tradeoff is so well worth it in my opinion.

If you own a studio and you're trying to emulate the sounds of Jones and Het, get into the DAW sculpting and contouring programs - they'll run a strip of tape for you (figuratively speaking), and you can cut, nip and tuck till you've got it nailed. Just saying...

V.

PS - and that rabbit outfit is still really wiggin' me out dawg... Ya gotsta do something about it. Reminds me of some weird Donnie Darko flashback or something.

 

[PhilipJ]

I've tried Ruby EL34, Winged C EL34, JJ KT77, and 5881 in my VH4S. For modern metal and the clean tones, the 5881s (or 6L6s) are definitely the best. My amp tech and my brother (both guitar players) agree with my conclusion that 6L6s sound best in the VH4 for modern and metal tones.

EL34 type tubes that I tried out:
Ruby EL34 (stock tubes) sounded like a pillow was over the speakers. In my opinion, these tubes are absolutely horrible.
JJ KT77s have more highs, more lows, and less mids than the Ruby EL34. They were better than the Ruby EL34s, but far from great.
Winged C EL34 sounded better than the Ruby EL34, but not great for modern metal. I liked these about as much as the JJ KT77s.

5881(6L6) vs EL34(KT77) in the VH4:

5881 has more fizzy highs -- EL34 has very little fizzy highs
5881 has less mids -- EL34 has more mids
5881 mids are looser -- EL34 mids are STIFF, hard, and compressed
5881 has more of a spongy pick attack -- EL34 has an extremely immediate pick attack
5881 has more individual note clarity in the cleans during chords -- EL34 sounds like a wall of sound during chords (less individual clarity)

Which is better depends on your style. If you play modern metal, you will like 5881 or 6L6 types. If you want a better clean tone, you will like 5881s or 6L6s. If you like to play 80s metal, you will probably like the EL34 types.

I was amazed how different the pick attack felt in the 5881s compared to the EL34. In the VH4, the 5881 gives a little sag during the pick attack. The 5881s felt like a Mesa amp (more spongy). EL34s were extremely tight in the pick attack.

Just to give you an idea of the other equipment that was in the signal chain when I made my judgements:
--Ibanez with EMG 85 in bridge and SD Blackout in the neck
--Two 412 Mesa Rectifier cabinets loaded with Vintage 30s
--effects loop not used

I saw the rest of this thread too, but I have to chime in - the 6550's are the bee's knees when it comes to DELIVERING the PUNCH!! I've had 6L6, EL34, and 6550's - the latter KILL... And ya, albeit they run hot, the tradeoff is so well worth it in my opinion.

If you own a studio and you're trying to emulate the sounds of Jones and Het, get into the DAW sculpting and contouring programs - they'll run a strip of tape for you (figuratively speaking), and you can cut, nip and tuck till you've got it nailed. Just saying...

V.

PS - and that rabbit outfit is still really wiggin' me out dawg... Ya gotsta do something about it. Reminds me of some weird Donnie Darko flashback or something.

What kind of EL34 and 6L6'S did you use, though?

 

[Ventura]

In the VH4 and VH4S I've used:
JJ EL34
Tung Sol EL34
Winged C EL34

JJ 6L6GC
Winged C SED 6L6GC
Sovtek 5881

That's it for EL34 and 6L6 type tubes. Once I went with the 6550's - there was NO going back. YMMV...

V.

 

[King Crimson]

Can anyone confirm that Hetfield uses all EL34's in his VH4? Does anyone also know what they are biased at, and also what he uses for preamp tubes?

Who cares, Hack. The guy and the rest of the douche nozzles in that bunch are a bunch of Hacks!!!
I heard that he uses these, though.

And word is he's one of the first test tube babies.

 

[Ventura]

Can anyone confirm that Hetfield uses all EL34's in his VH4? Does anyone also know what they are biased at, and also what he uses for preamp tubes?

Who cares, Hack. The guy and the rest of the douche nozzles in that bunch are a bunch of Hacks!!!
I heard that he uses these, though.

And word is he's one of the first test tube babies.

You know KC, sometimes I wonder about you... Is it experimental medication or just textbook self loathing? This comes from the heart... I care.

V.

 

[RJF]

Haha.....

 

[King Crimson]

You know KC, sometimes I wonder about you... Is it experimental medication or just textbook self loathing? This comes from the heart... I care.

V.

Hey V - It's purely a very wide-ranging social conduct experiment.

I’m good…