scottosan
Well-known member
No clippers on the Bitch or Aldrich. It's a plate fed tone stack so you can get 4 gain stages from 3 tubes. The Roccaforte HG100 uses the same principle and did this long before CameronSpiderWars":2wje7vup said:
NewReligion
Active member
scottosan":5xmxop5d said:
Doesn't the Non Cathode Follower 4 stage gain go Back to "German Engineering" Reinhold and before?
My Cameron "Cantrell" 2204 is this way. The circuit feeds the input in a different manner...Way smoother than the three Cameron Aldrich's I flipped through. Genius design with a twisted Tone Stack lol. Well done Mark. It was one of a kind until I figured it out...Love It...
In fact I believe there are many circuits that are anode fed with no CF.
Here is my version of this circuit. I used Marshall 1987RI converted it to a Cantrell 2204 non cathode follower. Took me a couple months to tweak it where I wanted it, voltages etc...♪ My build straight in then 1960BV cab.
Sits great in a live mix as well. Now I am exploring all of the HG Jose takes on that circuit.
Respectfully.
NewReligion
Active member
Equ1nox":3qvq5ym4 said:
Can someone explain to me the above bold underlined abbreviations please...Thanks.
P
paulyc
Well-known member
Cameron Old Bitch and Atomica use Classic Tone transformers, not Mark's "usual" MM ( Mercury Magnetics) transformers, and are supposed to be a blend of Cameron and Friedman, xfers is short for transformers
NewReligion
Active member
paulyc":7cmqngpv said:
Thank you very much...
P
paulyc
Well-known member
No problem
Salos
New member
paulyc":yg9ghlvm said:
My OB had a Heyboer transformer I'm pretty sure.
P
paulyc
Well-known member
Some of the Old Bitches had serious hum problems that were supposedly traced back to the Classic Tones, so maybe they changed suppliers ?
Salos
New member
paulyc":2vmsc96i said:
Interesting, I heard it was the other way around. That some shipped with bad Heyboers that had to be replaced. We need a Cameron wiki just to get all of this stuff straight!
P
paulyc
Well-known member
My Atomica (and a buddiy's also) have Classic Tones, and neither amp has been modified.
keennay
Member
LP Freak":3qq0vdmp said:
As an owner of both, the Aldrich modded Marshalls (by Mark) and the Cameron Old Bitches sound nothing alike.
Salos":3qq0vdmp said:paulyc":3qq0vdmp said:
Interesting, I heard it was the other way around. That some shipped with bad Heyboers that had to be replaced. We need a Cameron wiki just to get all of this stuff straight!
They were all pretty bad. My Atomica had its Classic Tone transformer replaced by Dave Friedman (around 2015) with another transformer by the same company: Magnetics Components... unsure if it's another Classic Tone.
E
Equ1nox
Active member
"Interesting, I heard it was the other way around. That some shipped with bad Heyboers that had to be replaced. We need a Cameron wiki just to get all of this stuff straight!"
Maybe, but I can answer it for you...the Atomica and Old Bitch hybrid amps (hybrid as not 100% Mark design, but a blend of Mark and Dave Friendman and assembled by George Metropolous) used Heyboer PT and Magnetic Components choke and OT. This was during a period Friedman was adding additional taps to the transformers for channel switching/relys, etc. For whatever reason, I'm assuming because the chassis were all punched with specific holes, Friedman did not want the footprint changed, but when you add more and more stuff, something hs to give. In the end was horribly designed PT which was noisy and generated extra heat. Likewise, the amps were built wrong a Metropolous (filter cap grounds not installed, bright cap switches installed incorrect, incorrect cathode resistors, wrong values, etc). It was a cluster fuck and people paid good money for those amps. I know many were sent back to be fixed.
The Cameron/Friedman Atomica andOld Bitch should have been installed with the following from the factory and again, NOT Mark's normal Mercury Magnetics transformer (xfer) set.
PT - Heyboer - HTS-8205-1 DF
Choke - Magnetic Components - 40-18058
OT - 40-18026
Maybe, but I can answer it for you...the Atomica and Old Bitch hybrid amps (hybrid as not 100% Mark design, but a blend of Mark and Dave Friendman and assembled by George Metropolous) used Heyboer PT and Magnetic Components choke and OT. This was during a period Friedman was adding additional taps to the transformers for channel switching/relys, etc. For whatever reason, I'm assuming because the chassis were all punched with specific holes, Friedman did not want the footprint changed, but when you add more and more stuff, something hs to give. In the end was horribly designed PT which was noisy and generated extra heat. Likewise, the amps were built wrong a Metropolous (filter cap grounds not installed, bright cap switches installed incorrect, incorrect cathode resistors, wrong values, etc). It was a cluster fuck and people paid good money for those amps. I know many were sent back to be fixed.
The Cameron/Friedman Atomica andOld Bitch should have been installed with the following from the factory and again, NOT Mark's normal Mercury Magnetics transformer (xfer) set.
PT - Heyboer - HTS-8205-1 DF
Choke - Magnetic Components - 40-18058
OT - 40-18026
NewReligion
Active member
Equ1nox":2rfvlnyx said:
A wiki would be a great Idea. Very nice to have this information coming together.
NewReligion
Active member
keennay":4cgq4zco said:LP Freak":4cgq4zco said:
As an owner of both, the Aldrich modded Marshalls (by Mark) and the Cameron Old Bitches sound nothing alike.
Salos":4cgq4zco said:paulyc":4cgq4zco said:
Interesting, I heard it was the other way around. That some shipped with bad Heyboers that had to be replaced. We need a Cameron wiki just to get all of this stuff straight!
They were all pretty bad. My Atomica had its Classic Tone transformer replaced by Dave Friedman (around 2015) with another transformer by the same company: Magnetics Components... unsure if it's another Classic Tone.
Hi Keennay. It's been a while. I had 3 different Aldich's by Mark, just not the amp for me as the way the circuit input feeds produces a fizz I don't care for. Of course by the time I received them Mark told me he thought some one had gotten into the circuits probing around which would not surprise me as that is how I have documented and laid out all of the circuits.
My point here was to ask you how your ears perceive the Old Bitch (Mark hates that name lol) vs the Aldrich. I'm guessing the OB is much smoother non cathode follower like my Cameron Cantrell...
A
Anonymous
Guest
That isn't true. Mark sometimes put clippers in the Aldrich. I had one that did.scottosan":3l3y0hb7 said:
Steve
Salos
New member
For what it's worth, I liked my OB a lot. Regardless of what it was supposed to be or how it was supposed to be built, etc. - I liked how it sounded. Only reason I sold it was to fund a CCV hunt.
NewReligion
Active member
sah5150":1kyb3ty9 said:
I think Mark told me he did that to a couple and has built 2-3 three channel Aldrich's as well. I would guess the third channel being of Jose heritage of course would have transistors to clip. Likely channel 2 of the CCV...
By the way I dig the clips of your work. I would love to play a couple.
One of my Aldrich's had a 5 way rotary switch with different rated pf I think 220-800 caps to change the freq grind off of V2a/b. I bypassed it temp and it sounded much better without. My model with a 2nd clean channel just would not bond with my ears even a little bit. I love the Cameron I do own but would like to try some others but at 2K a pop it is a risky transaction to get a unmolested Cameron at this point as everyone wants to dig into them then flip them. If it rocks I keep it after I clean the goop away for any servicing that may need to be done...Later
E
Equ1nox
Active member
"Aldrich - just not the amp for me as the way the circuit input feeds produces a fizz I don't care for."
That's the great thing about amps and uitar players. Everyone has their own tone in their head. For me, I'm a high-gain whore and I like the fizzies and sizzle ala Doug Aldrich tone (Randy Rhoads had this on the top end also).
"Mark sometimes put clippers in the Aldrich. I had one that did."
I can check my notes, but have had multiple Cameron's and don't believe any of them had peaker caps on them.
"Mark told me he did that to a couple and has built 2-3 three channel Aldrich's as well."
Yes, I had one from a dude out of Hawaii that I blueprinted. The three channels are: Plexi (2 gain + CF), Jose HG (3 gain + CF), Aldrich (4 gains).
"One of my Aldrich's had a 5 way rotary switch with different rated pf I think 220-800 caps to change the freq grind off of V2a/b."
Hmm, that's funny. I've never seen or heard of a 5-way. I did have a 1-off with like a 10-way, but it didn't function that way. Anyway, a guy asked me what he thought it was and I told him to change the frequency of the voltage divider to the second gain stage (similar to what you are talking about) and he liked it!!! lol
"would like to try some others but at 2K a pop it is a risky transaction to get a unmolested Cameron at this point as everyone wants to dig into them then flip them. "
That might me true, but I think risk is low. The price of the Cameron's stays high and you should be able to resale for the same or more than you paid. I have done this with every Cameron I've had even selling recent and have always MADE money on them even on $4,000 selling prices!!! :O Due to the reverse-engineering and what not that goes on and Mark being anal about his designs, I do not think any of the amps he's been producing the last few years contains the "total" designs for his fear of people stealing it. I've seen gut shots of newer builds of what is supposed to be some of his named MODs and they are not right.
"As an owner of both, the Aldrich modded Marshalls (by Mark) and the Cameron Old Bitches sound nothing alike."
That would be correct as the OB has a lot of Friedman influence in it, but more rounded. Mark's complete MOD or builds are tighter and more aggressive...which I like, but must say, once the OB has the appropriate iron in it and wired right and what not, it sounded really, really good!
That's the great thing about amps and uitar players. Everyone has their own tone in their head. For me, I'm a high-gain whore and I like the fizzies and sizzle ala Doug Aldrich tone (Randy Rhoads had this on the top end also).
"Mark sometimes put clippers in the Aldrich. I had one that did."
I can check my notes, but have had multiple Cameron's and don't believe any of them had peaker caps on them.
"Mark told me he did that to a couple and has built 2-3 three channel Aldrich's as well."
Yes, I had one from a dude out of Hawaii that I blueprinted. The three channels are: Plexi (2 gain + CF), Jose HG (3 gain + CF), Aldrich (4 gains).
"One of my Aldrich's had a 5 way rotary switch with different rated pf I think 220-800 caps to change the freq grind off of V2a/b."
Hmm, that's funny. I've never seen or heard of a 5-way. I did have a 1-off with like a 10-way, but it didn't function that way. Anyway, a guy asked me what he thought it was and I told him to change the frequency of the voltage divider to the second gain stage (similar to what you are talking about) and he liked it!!! lol
"would like to try some others but at 2K a pop it is a risky transaction to get a unmolested Cameron at this point as everyone wants to dig into them then flip them. "
That might me true, but I think risk is low. The price of the Cameron's stays high and you should be able to resale for the same or more than you paid. I have done this with every Cameron I've had even selling recent and have always MADE money on them even on $4,000 selling prices!!! :O
Due to the reverse-engineering and what not that goes on and Mark being anal about his designs, I do not think any of the amps he's been producing the last few years contains the "total" designs for his fear of people stealing it. I've seen gut shots of newer builds of what is supposed to be some of his named MODs and they are not right."As an owner of both, the Aldrich modded Marshalls (by Mark) and the Cameron Old Bitches sound nothing alike."
That would be correct as the OB has a lot of Friedman influence in it, but more rounded. Mark's complete MOD or builds are tighter and more aggressive...which I like, but must say, once the OB has the appropriate iron in it and wired right and what not, it sounded really, really good!
NewReligion
Active member
Equ1nox":2zaxp6c7 said:"Aldrich - just not the amp for me as the way the circuit input feeds produces a fizz I don't care for."
That's the great thing about amps and uitar players. Everyone has their own tone in their head. For me, I'm a high-gain whore and I like the fizzies and sizzle ala Doug Aldrich tone (Randy Rhoads had this on the top end also).
"Mark sometimes put clippers in the Aldrich. I had one that did."
I can check my notes, but have had multiple Cameron's and don't believe any of them had peaker caps on them.
"Mark told me he did that to a couple and has built 2-3 three channel Aldrich's as well."
Yes, I had one from a dude out of Hawaii that I blueprinted. The three channels are: Plexi (2 gain + CF), Jose HG (3 gain + CF), Aldrich (4 gains).
"One of my Aldrich's had a 5 way rotary switch with different rated pf I think 220-800 caps to change the freq grind off of V2a/b."
Hmm, that's funny. I've never seen or heard of a 5-way. I did have a 1-off with like a 10-way, but it didn't function that way. Anyway, a guy asked me what he thought it was and I told him to change the frequency of the voltage divider to the second gain stage (similar to what you are talking about) and he liked it!!! lol
"would like to try some others but at 2K a pop it is a risky transaction to get a unmolested Cameron at this point as everyone wants to dig into them then flip them. "
That might me true, but I think risk is low. The price of the Cameron's stays high and you should be able to resale for the same or more than you paid. I have done this with every Cameron I've had even selling recent and have always MADE money on them even on $4,000 selling prices!!! :O
"As an owner of both, the Aldrich modded Marshalls (by Mark) and the Cameron Old Bitches sound nothing alike."
That would be correct as the OB has a lot of Friedman influence in it, but more rounded. Mark's complete MOD or builds are tighter and more aggressive...which I like, but must say, once the OB has the appropriate iron in it and wired right and what not, it sounded really, really good!
Enjoyable read and perspective... thank you.
R
Racerxrated
Well-known member
?? I had 4 Aldrich and a one off, and one of my Aldrich's was an early mod, and had a 5 way rotary on the back. Not sure what it did in the circuit but seemed to brighten or darken, taking it into modern territory if needed. He did this amp back in 93 I was told. One of the first 3 he did.NewReligion":2dwghn4t said:Equ1nox":2dwghn4t said:"Aldrich - just not the amp for me as the way the circuit input feeds produces a fizz I don't care for."
That's the great thing about amps and uitar players. Everyone has their own tone in their head. For me, I'm a high-gain whore and I like the fizzies and sizzle ala Doug Aldrich tone (Randy Rhoads had this on the top end also).
"Mark sometimes put clippers in the Aldrich. I had one that did."
I can check my notes, but have had multiple Cameron's and don't believe any of them had peaker caps on them.
"Mark told me he did that to a couple and has built 2-3 three channel Aldrich's as well."
Yes, I had one from a dude out of Hawaii that I blueprinted. The three channels are: Plexi (2 gain + CF), Jose HG (3 gain + CF), Aldrich (4 gains).
"One of my Aldrich's had a 5 way rotary switch with different rated pf I think 220-800 caps to change the freq grind off of V2a/b."
Hmm, that's funny. I've never seen or heard of a 5-way. I did have a 1-off with like a 10-way, but it didn't function that way. Anyway, a guy asked me what he thought it was and I told him to change the frequency of the voltage divider to the second gain stage (similar to what you are talking about) and he liked it!!! lol
"would like to try some others but at 2K a pop it is a risky transaction to get a unmolested Cameron at this point as everyone wants to dig into them then flip them. "
That might me true, but I think risk is low. The price of the Cameron's stays high and you should be able to resale for the same or more than you paid. I have done this with every Cameron I've had even selling recent and have always MADE money on them even on $4,000 selling prices!!! :O
"As an owner of both, the Aldrich modded Marshalls (by Mark) and the Cameron Old Bitches sound nothing alike."
That would be correct as the OB has a lot of Friedman influence in it, but more rounded. Mark's complete MOD or builds are tighter and more aggressive...which I like, but must say, once the OB has the appropriate iron in it and wired right and what not, it sounded really, really good!
Enjoyable read and perspective... thank you.
I have a Mig 100 Ocean incoming, and when this amp was for sale here long ago it was mentioned that Mark could no longer do the true Ocean mod anymore because of an unavailable part, and that this amp was an early Ocean.
I've heard Ocean's are very close to a Jose. Never had a Jose, really looking forward to this amp.