Just got a Lava van Den Hul cable. Holy shit, impressed.

  • Thread starter Thread starter GJgo
  • Start date Start date
I have both evidence and van den hull speaker cables...some combinations of amps or speakers like one or the other, evidence has a more focused sound, mids sound sweet maybe slightly hyped. VDH has a more open bigger sound, very big bass so you really need to adjust EQ's if you change from one cable to the other....YES cables do make a difference, if anybody doubts it just try it and pay attention to the sound and feel. I use evidence lyric HG for instrument cable and that sounds pretty good, and quite different from others as well
 
sah5150":zf0t791e said:
moltenmetalburn":zf0t791e said:
Cables matter. Anything else said is BS. Science trumps all opinion and subjectivity.
What is the science besides capacitance and the length of the cable?

Steve

I am no mathematician, I have no idea what the exact formula is however I would assume it would be different for each material used. Simply capacitance, not winding patterns etc, I have little knowledge of those claims.

As for capacitance it is well known that after a passive guitar and sans buffer, capacitance will effect the high frequency secondary to the SHIFT IN THE LOCATION OF THE RESONANT PEAK of the passive pickup.

There are some cases where the output impedance is already low and attempting to hear a difference will yield negligible results.

This is USER ERROR.

Output impedance is the FIRST criteria used, if it is low it is already KNOWN that the cable will make little or no discernable difference as the interaction of the electrical system is nullified by the "buffered" output.

Guitar rigs are a mixture of high and low impedance outputs in the chain. Knowing the differences or NOT knowing them because you are an ignorant guitarist does not change the reality that there are situations where this is true.

As for the TONE, well that IS the subjectivity, everyone idea of what sounds best is different.

I will never claim a cable as BEST, as for making a tonal difference in half of applications, absolutely and irrefutable. It is simple science.

I.use solid core solid silver wire Coates in Teflon in All of my guitars. Necessary, hell no, do I like it yes, brighter and more output from the pickups as silver is more conductive than copper. When discussing tiny millivolt signals this can be a large.change.

Here is some reading:

"Capacitance in cable is usually measured as picofarads per foot (pf/ft). It indicates how much charge the cable can store within itself. If a voltage signal is being transmitted by a twisted pair or coaxial cable, the insulation on the individual wires becomes charged by the voltage within the circuit. Since it takes a certain amount of time for the cable to reach its charged level, this slows down and interferes with the signal being transmitted.

Controlling Cable Capacitance
Since cable capacitance is so important, a lot of analysis goes into minimizing it. This can be accomplished by:

Increasing the insulation wall thickness
Decreasing the conductor diameter
Using an insulation with a lower dielectric constant.
The size of the conductor is usually determined by the electrical requirements of the circuit that the cable interconnects. If the circuit has been designed to require a 22 AWG wire, you cannot reduce it to 28 AWG just to reduce the capacitance. Also, the insulation wall thickness cannot be increased beyond reason since this increases the diameter of the cable, increasing costs and affecting terminations. Thus, the insulation chosen for the cable often becomes the critical variable.

All dielectric constants are compared to air or vacuum, which is given a value of 1.0. A poor quality PVC insulation may have a dielectric constant of 5.0 to 6.0 or higher. Polyethylene has a much better dielectric constant of approximately 2.0. Foamed polypropylene or polyethylene insulations have constants as low as 1.6."
 
I have been using the Vandenhul cables for years. I have two of them. People thought I was nuts spending that much on a cable. Let me tell you they make a difference. I have put them up against a bunch of other hi end cables and they always sound better. You made a smart move buying one.
 
sah5150":3nkiqugg said:
Damn, you guys have some phenomenal ears...

I've had my entire rig connected with them and I heard absolutely zero difference from far cheaper cables, which made me feel REALLY silly for spending all that cash on them... They look super pretty though... :D

Steve
Steve, I agree with you when it comes to the rack or even speaker cables. I spent a lot of (wasted) money and time on cables. My thought is if you go with a good cable for your cabs, rack and pedals thats good enough. I never heard any difference between a good Mogami cable and a Vandenhul. When it comes to the cable from your guitar to your amp thats where the big differences come in. IMO nothing compares to the Vndenhul.
 
So, this is what it's like to read posts on TGP.

:D

I have a Sommer 'The Spirit' guitar cable, and a Sommer Quadra Blue speaker cable I bought from LavaMan a long time ago. The quality is good, but I've not really compared it against other cables for sound quality. I just wanted something that was built well, and to give $$$ to a smaller business back then.

-Edit-
I just A/B'd the Sommer cable against a cheapo cable I bought on Amazon for foot switch duty. I couldn't hear a difference. I'm not saying there's not truth behind the science, just saying in this instance of these two cables there was not a discernible difference.
 
All I ever hear from people is....you've got great tone, what cables are you using?
 
I tried a lot of cables (George, Analysis Plus Yellow, Lyric HG)
In the last 2 years i always made my cables with Nutrik gold connectors and silver solder. I used Mogami before, but now i really like Sommer line.
 
I always use a lyric hg...I go direct to amp...and I need more than 20ft cable...
In these prices I am considering the new line6 little wireless...
 
Rezamatix":2nhuloh2 said:
The best guitar cable you can buy is Gepco X. Trust me on this. It's not expensive but it performs exceptionally, sounds great, just as good if not better as my evidence cable that cost more.


Now it's all I use.

http://www.gepco.com/products/proav_cable/analog_audio/guitar_xband_M.htm


Well damn, at 22pf per foot im not surprised you like this. This is lower than most "elc" low capacitance cable.

Ill be trying some out, thanks!
 
mhenson42":3upgv2nb said:
http://btpa.com/High-Definition/


20pf!! Even lower.

It seems the ongoing cable debate has led to manufacturers making low cost low cap. cable. Nice!
 
LP Freak":2axq00ba said:
All I ever hear from people is....you've got great tone, what cables are you using?


:lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL: Of course it is all in the cables!!!
 
moltenmetalburn":20n4lige said:
sah5150":20n4lige said:
moltenmetalburn":20n4lige said:
Cables matter. Anything else said is BS. Science trumps all opinion and subjectivity.
What is the science besides capacitance and the length of the cable?

Steve

I am no mathematician, I have no idea what the exact formula is however I would assume it would be different for each material used. Simply capacitance, not winding patterns etc, I have little knowledge of those claims.

As for capacitance it is well known that after a passive guitar and sans buffer, capacitance will effect the high frequency secondary to the SHIFT IN THE LOCATION OF THE RESONANT PEAK of the passive pickup.

There are some cases where the output impedance is already low and attempting to hear a difference will yield negligible results.

This is USER ERROR.

Output impedance is the FIRST criteria used, if it is low it is already KNOWN that the cable will make little or no discernable difference as the interaction of the electrical system is nullified by the "buffered" output.

Guitar rigs are a mixture of high and low impedance outputs in the chain. Knowing the differences or NOT knowing them because you are an ignorant guitarist does not change the reality that there are situations where this is true.

As for the TONE, well that IS the subjectivity, everyone idea of what sounds best is different.

I will never claim a cable as BEST, as for making a tonal difference in half of applications, absolutely and irrefutable. It is simple science.

I.use solid core solid silver wire Coates in Teflon in All of my guitars. Necessary, hell no, do I like it yes, brighter and more output from the pickups as silver is more conductive than copper. When discussing tiny millivolt signals this can be a large.change.

Here is some reading:

"Capacitance in cable is usually measured as picofarads per foot (pf/ft). It indicates how much charge the cable can store within itself. If a voltage signal is being transmitted by a twisted pair or coaxial cable, the insulation on the individual wires becomes charged by the voltage within the circuit. Since it takes a certain amount of time for the cable to reach its charged level, this slows down and interferes with the signal being transmitted.

Controlling Cable Capacitance
Since cable capacitance is so important, a lot of analysis goes into minimizing it. This can be accomplished by:

Increasing the insulation wall thickness
Decreasing the conductor diameter
Using an insulation with a lower dielectric constant.
The size of the conductor is usually determined by the electrical requirements of the circuit that the cable interconnects. If the circuit has been designed to require a 22 AWG wire, you cannot reduce it to 28 AWG just to reduce the capacitance. Also, the insulation wall thickness cannot be increased beyond reason since this increases the diameter of the cable, increasing costs and affecting terminations. Thus, the insulation chosen for the cable often becomes the critical variable.

All dielectric constants are compared to air or vacuum, which is given a value of 1.0. A poor quality PVC insulation may have a dielectric constant of 5.0 to 6.0 or higher. Polyethylene has a much better dielectric constant of approximately 2.0. Foamed polypropylene or polyethylene insulations have constants as low as 1.6."
I already understand cable length and capacitance. My question was what is the science BESIDES cable length and capacitance as that appeared to be the clam of a previous response that there was more science to it...

Steve
 
Who cares about science. What I've realized about cables is what would seem to yield a better tone on paper doesn't always sound "better" in reality. I have ONLY been able to tell the difference between cables by instantly A/B'ing them with a pedal switcher. I relate it to plugging into multiple EQ pedals with each having a slightly different setting. I like to have a cable with the most presence and punch. I really like Evidence audio cables for this.
 
the differences in cables can be overcome by simply turning the knobs on the amp.
 
wIsEbLooD":15b8nxrs said:
the differences in cables can be overcome by simply turning the knobs on the amp.


Not entirely true. Pre distoertion EQ spectrum can drive individual bands into more distortion. Ts808 is a good example. It trims off bass and highs and then we boost driving the mids into more distortion and leaving the other bands cleaner which are then "restored"with the amp EQ.

Turning up highs to compensate for high mid/ high end loss secondary to capacitance wont have the same effect as turning up highs BEFORE the preamp.
 
moltenmetalburn":3aduu9jj said:
wIsEbLooD":3aduu9jj said:
the differences in cables can be overcome by simply turning the knobs on the amp.


Not entirely true. Pre distoertion EQ spectrum can drive individual bands into more distortion. Ts808 is a good example. It trims off bass and highs and then we boost driving the mids into more distortion and leaving the other bands cleaner which are then "restored"with the amp EQ.

Turning up highs to compensate for high mid/ high end loss secondary to capacitance wont have the same effect as turning up highs BEFORE the preamp.
Was going to state something similar.
 
Ok. So how do my older Planet Waves G series (has the gold plated compressions spring input jacks) compare to something like a Mogami, Evidence, Lava, etc... higher priced instrument cable? Do I need a upgrade? Always looking to improve my tone but is it worth changing from my Planet Waves I've had for years or are they considered decent cables?
 
jlb32":ffig6rkd said:
Ok. So how do my older Planet Waves G series (has the gold plated compressions spring input jacks) compare to something like a Mogami, Evidence, Lava, etc... higher priced instrument cable? Do I need a upgrade? Always looking to improve my tone but is it worth changing from my Planet Waves I've had for years or are they considered decent cables?


Youd have to measure the capacitance. Website says "low". If it is low than its prob pretty decent however the gold plating is a no/no. It protects from corrosion but also is LESS conductive than copper or silver.
 
Back
Top