Looks like Marshall amps are getting ready to be available again in the US

TheGreatGreen said:
Nice comeback. Man you sure told me exactly how I was incorrect, which you and that fox news education of yours can definitely do, right? LOL
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You’re severely overestimating the importance of your opinions if you think I feel the need to go back and forth with you in a debate. Think whatever you want. Your opinions are of no consequence.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
This sentiment is entirely misguided.

A trade deficit isn't something that inherently causes an undesirable impact. It just means between two countries, one imports more than it exports. That's it. It allows the country doing more importing to consume more of something than it can produce itself. That's literally all it is. But some people see the word "deficit" and think "deficit = bad" and their brain just shuts off after that.

The only thing tariffs are doing is hurting American businesses. It is a tax on American business for importing from another country. That's it. The tariff doesn't make the foreign country pay anything extra to the American government. It has no effect on foreign businesses other than it pressures American businesses to not buy from them, which in the modern USA isn't going to happen because this economy is built on importing stuff from all over the world.

So no, tariffs have nothing to do with providing an answer for other countries that have been "fucking us over" for years.

Classically, a tariff is just a tool used to incentivize businesses to buy from other businesses from the same country. But in this scenario it's idiotic because even if the USA could build local alternative businesses to supplant our imports, the process for doing so would take many years if not longer. And that's if the USA contains the raw materials upon which the businesses can build themselves. With a lot of raw materials, we just don't have them so we have to import them, making tariffs completely useless.

The real reason Trump is conducting his tariff war is for loyalty. Tons of select private businesses are getting exceptions from those tariffs specifically when they pay Trump money and loyalty in one way or another. You can watch it happen in real time if you turned off Fox News for 5 seconds.

The whole "tariffs are happening in response to other countries fucking us over" line is 100% bullshit propaganda that doesn't even begin to make sense if you even so much as know the definitions of those words.
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The US needs to build back some industries, not only for national defense, but for our standard of living. If that means the US isn't the world's piggybank for a while, so be it. It's the largest market in the world, it should be a privilege to sell your goods here. And it's not that the US is lacking in those raw materials, we just don't have reserves of them, and haven't built up our processing and refining. We are reliant on imports, which means we are vulnerable. Anyone with kids or young family has a vested interest, and are happy with the direction of the country. Anyone that is only looking out for themselves is pissed.

edit:
yngHL said:
Get in there and fight you pussy
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so put up your dukes mofo. Where do you stand? :boxer:
 
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ralphwiggum-smart.webp
 
Who ruined this thread with all the political rantings? Was it the liberals or conservatives?

I was just looking forward to getting Marshalls back in stock.
cant-we-all-just-get-along.jpg
 
Erock said:
The US needs to build back some industries, not only for national defense, but for our standard of living. If that means the US isn't the world's piggybank for a while, so be it. It's the largest market in the world, it should be a privilege to sell your goods here. And it's not that the US is lacking in those raw materials, we just don't have reserves of them, and haven't built up our processing and refining. We are reliant on imports, which means we are vulnerable. Anyone with kids or young family has a vested interest, and are happy with the direction of the country. Anyone that is only looking out for themselves is pissed.

edit:

so put up your dukes mofo. Where do you stand? :boxer:
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The USA absolutely needs to improve. Standards of living are decreasing, we pay more per capita for healthcare than any developed nation in the world while not even cracking the top 25% of countries with the highest life expectancy, the wealth gap is not just increasing but accelerating, etc.

But I don't know what you're getting at by talking about how the US shouldn't be the world's piggy bank and how it should be a privilege to sell things to the USA as it relates to this conversation though, because those things have nothing to do with trade deficits and tariffs. Again, a tariff the USA imposes on a foreign country does not directly cost businesses in that foreign country anything at all. It just means USA businesses are punished when they buy goods from that other country in the form of those local businesses having to pay the US government an additional tax penalty for buying foreign goods. A tariff creates pressure for USA business to buy locally instead of from foreign countries yes, but for one, that manufacturing industry doesn't exist anymore here, and two, for all goods that are sold, the foreign business makes the same money, tariffs or no tariffs.

As for the piggy bank thing, that's something the US did to itself. Post world war 2 leadership essentially traded US manufacturing capability for international security by making the US dollar the standard international trade currency, allowing the banking system to essentially control world trade by imposing sanctions on countries they didn't like, etc. This sent the value of the dollar skyrocketing which was great for the country at the time but as a consequence, it made manufacturing anything here but the most high profit margin goods impossible. The idea was that this would be ok though because Americans were supposed to educate themselves out of needing to bother with manufacturing jobs. But that didn't happen. Anybody in America can tell you it's an endless sea of retards who can't do anything but menial labor. Woops. So what actually happened was that USA leadership traded the country's manufacturing capability to Asia for increased international security and wealth to the American upper class who benefited from being able to hoard that wealth thanks to the then reduced capital gains tax and the at-the-time soaring value of the dollar, at the expense of working class families having far fewer options for work here now.

As for the USA launching an entirely new manufacturing industry to compete with current world manufacturing? Well, good luck with that. US labor, even US minimum wage labor, is far too expensive to compete on the global market now where foreign businesses have fuck all regulation to worry about and pay workers pennies a day. As long as there are foreign manufacturers to buy from and as long as Americans want foreign goods, that demand isn't going away. Yeah Trump could keep trying to force US businesses to buy from a newly launched US manufacturing industry through tariffs, but all that will do is make everybody poor. Everything gets astronomically expensive, inflation spirals out of control, and then we're all fucked for real.

I wouldn't worry though, I'm sure Trump has a master plan. He only bankrupted six businesses and there was a ten year period where he ---literally--- lost more money than any other single American. Art of the Deal, baby. But this time I'm sure President Goodbrains will stun us all with his revelatory genius soon. It'll probably happen at the same time he reveals his Big Beautiful Healthcare plan. You know, the one that has been coming out "in two weeks" for like the last 6 years now.
 
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Ok, riddle me this. A little over a year ago Marshall prices got slashed by around 40%. Maybe some of it had to do with Sam Ash's circling the drain, but, up until they turned out the lights, they were still taking orders for new Marshalls for a song. I wanted an SV20H and had one on order for $900ish NIB and shipped. I finally gave up waiting and canceled. Now those amps are $1200 on SW and going for barely less on the used market. How does this happen?

Seems to me, if Marshall wanted to become a little more price competitive, since most of its competitors (at their price point) are going to be subject to the tariffs, Marshall could eat some of the increase, keep prices the same, while watching their competitors have to hike them. EVH amps are made in Vietnam. They have to be getting ready to reprice everything. Maybe Friedman, Bogner and Soldano won't face any tariffs, but they're already way more expensive than their Marshall equivalents.

Ah hell, I don't need another amp. But I was hoping that a used SV20H would eventually come down to about 60-70% of its November 2023 new price.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
This sentiment is entirely misguided.

A trade deficit isn't something that inherently causes an undesirable impact. It just means between two countries, one imports more than it exports. That's it. It allows the country doing more importing to consume more of something than it can produce itself. That's literally all it is. But some people see the word "deficit" and think "deficit = bad" and their brain just shuts off after that.

The only thing tariffs are doing is hurting American businesses. It is a tax on American business for importing from another country. That's it. The tariff doesn't make the foreign country pay anything extra to the American government. It has no effect on foreign businesses other than it pressures American businesses to not buy from them, which in the modern USA isn't going to happen because this economy is built on importing stuff from all over the world.

So no, tariffs have nothing to do with providing an answer for other countries that have been "fucking us over" for years.

Classically, a tariff is just a tool used to incentivize businesses to buy from other businesses from the same country. But in this scenario it's idiotic because even if the USA could build local alternative businesses to supplant our imports, the process for doing so would take many years if not longer. And that's if the USA contains the raw materials upon which the businesses can build themselves. With a lot of raw materials, we just don't have them so we have to import them, making tariffs completely useless.

The real reason Trump is conducting his tariff war is for loyalty. Tons of select private businesses are getting exceptions from those tariffs specifically when they pay Trump money and loyalty in one way or another. You can watch it happen in real time if you turned off Fox News for 5 seconds.

The whole "tariffs are happening in response to other countries fucking us over" line is 100% bullshit propaganda that doesn't even begin to make sense if you even so much as know the definitions of those words.
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I realized that it is a waste of time trying to explain this here. It is like you are trying to teach an alley cat how to perform brain surgery.

They will find out just where the bear shits in the woods, only through time and stepping in it.

Sad, but true.
 
67mike said:
I realized that it is a waste of time trying to explain this here. It is like you are trying to teach an alley cat how to perform brain surgery.

They will find out just where the bear shits in the woods, only through time and stepping in it.

Sad, but true.
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Both your post and the one you quoted showcase the fact that neither of you has a clue what you're talking about.

No worries brother. We all survived 4 years of a puppet Biden regime with fuck knows who actually pulling the strings. You guys will survive the evil orange dude.
 
Floyd Eye said:
Both your post and the one you quoted showcase the fact that neither of you has a clue what you're talking about.

No worries brother. We all survived 4 years of a puppet Biden regime with fuck knows who actually pulling the strings. You guys will survive the evil orange dude.
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Don’t worry man, one day you’ll learn the definition of the word “tariff.” You can do it if you really try.
 
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Floyd Eye said:
Both your post and the one you quoted showcase the fact that neither of you has a clue what you're talking about.

No worries brother. We all survived 4 years of a puppet Biden regime with fuck knows who actually pulling the strings. You guys will survive the evil orange dude.
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Time will tell.

Wait and see.

I am enjoying the show.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
The USA absolutely needs to improve. Standards of living are decreasing, we pay more per capita for healthcare than any developed nation in the world while not even cracking the top 25% of countries with the highest life expectancy, the wealth gap is not just increasing but accelerating, etc.

But I don't know what you're getting at by talking about how the US shouldn't be the world's piggy bank and how it should be a privilege to sell things to the USA as it relates to this conversation though, because those things have nothing to do with trade deficits and tariffs. Again, a tariff the USA imposes on a foreign country does not directly cost businesses in that foreign country anything at all. It just means USA businesses are punished when they buy goods from that other country in the form of those local businesses having to pay the US government an additional tax penalty for buying foreign goods. A tariff creates pressure for USA business to buy locally instead of from foreign countries yes, but for one, that manufacturing industry doesn't exist anymore here, and two, for all goods that are sold, the foreign business makes the same money, tariffs or no tariffs.

As for the piggy bank thing, that's something the US did to itself. Post world war 2 leadership essentially traded US manufacturing capability for international security by making the US dollar the standard international trade currency, allowing the banking system to essentially control world trade by imposing sanctions on countries they didn't like, etc. This sent the value of the dollar skyrocketing which was great for the country at the time but as a consequence, it made manufacturing anything here but the most high profit margin goods impossible. The idea was that this would be ok though because Americans were supposed to educate themselves out of needing to bother with manufacturing jobs. But that didn't happen. Anybody in America can tell you it's an endless sea of retards who can't do anything but menial labor. Woops. So what actually happened was that USA leadership traded the country's manufacturing capability to Asia for increased international security and wealth to the American upper class who benefited from being able to hoard that wealth thanks to the then reduced capital gains tax and the at-the-time soaring value of the dollar, at the expense of working class families having far fewer options for work here now.

As for the USA launching an entirely new manufacturing industry to compete with current world manufacturing? Well, good luck with that. US labor, even US minimum wage labor, is far too expensive to compete on the global market now where foreign businesses have fuck all regulation to worry about and pay workers pennies a day. As long as there are foreign manufacturers to buy from and as long as Americans want foreign goods, that demand isn't going away. Yeah Trump could keep trying to force US businesses to buy from a newly launched US manufacturing industry through tariffs, but all that will do is make everybody poor. Everything gets astronomically expensive, inflation spirals out of control, and then we're all fucked for real.

I wouldn't worry though, I'm sure Trump has a master plan. He only bankrupted six businesses and there was a ten year period where he ---literally--- lost more money than any other single American. Art of the Deal, baby. But this time I'm sure President Goodbrains will stun us all with his revelatory genius soon. It'll probably happen at the same time he reveals his Big Beautiful Healthcare plan. You know, the one that has been coming out "in two weeks" for like the last 6 years now.
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Average salary in China isn't super low anymore (about 17k USD a year), average wage in China is far better than the US in terms of COL. In terms of COL, average salary in China works out to about $94,000 USD, which is pretty much exactly what the average job would be earning in the US if jobs kept pace with output and inflation.

The fact that the UN and WTO still gives China developing nation status is an absolute joke. They whine endlessly about pollution but do nothing to put the brakes on the most polluting country of all, because all those bureaucrats are making money hand over fist with personal investment in China. If they actually cared about the environment they'd place regulations on China's pollution which would directly effect their economy to benefit the US/West and give the US/West ability to start building up their middle class again.
 
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TheGreatGreen said:
This sentiment is entirely misguided.

A trade deficit isn't something that inherently causes an undesirable impact. It just means between two countries, one imports more than it exports. That's it. It allows the country doing more importing to consume more of something than it can produce itself. That's literally all it is. But some people see the word "deficit" and think "deficit = bad" and their brain just shuts off after that.

The only thing tariffs are doing is hurting American businesses. It is a tax on American business for importing from another country. That's it. The tariff doesn't make the foreign country pay anything extra to the American government. It has no effect on foreign businesses other than it pressures American businesses to not buy from them, which in the modern USA isn't going to happen because this economy is built on importing stuff from all over the world.

So no, tariffs have nothing to do with providing an answer for other countries that have been "fucking us over" for years.

Classically, a tariff is just a tool used to incentivize businesses to buy from other businesses from the same country. But in this scenario it's idiotic because even if the USA could build local alternative businesses to supplant our imports, the process for doing so would take many years if not longer. And that's if the USA contains the raw materials upon which the businesses can build themselves. With a lot of raw materials, we just don't have them so we have to import them, making tariffs completely useless.

The real reason Trump is conducting his tariff war is for loyalty. Tons of select private businesses are getting exceptions from those tariffs specifically when they pay Trump money and loyalty in one way or another. You can watch it happen in real time if you turned off Fox News for 5 seconds.

The whole "tariffs are happening in response to other countries fucking us over" line is 100% bullshit propaganda that doesn't even begin to make sense if you even so much as know the definitions of those words.
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Deficits with a given country aren't necessarily a problem, but an economy needs net balanced trade to sustain itself. Tariffs will hopefully address the issue because they will promote foreign investment in American manufacturing. It will also hit businesses like Apple or Nike that manufacture abroad and sell domestically, thus the recent stock market declines. That's fine IMO. We need to reverse the trade policies enacted in the 1990s that enabled the current situation. But yeah, to your point, other countries aren't screwing the US, it was American corporate interests that got a hold of sell-out politicians. Tarrifs will hurt everyone to some degree, and give some an advantage, but there is a good case that they will reform structural issues and long term we will be better off. I haven't seen evidence of exceptions and abuse of the tariff system yet, but that is something to watch for.
 
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