Marshall 2203X VS 1985 2203 and Zakk Wylde 2203....video by 'THE COUNT'

[DanTravis62]

I haven't tried a Wilcox, but the real Langner DCP-1 Pre I had had all the things I didn't like about any pre's I've had. On its own it sounded actually quite impressive, but when compared to the pre's of just my favorite heads running through the same power amp as the DCP-1 was going through to make it fair, every time it made the DCP-1 comparatively sound almost like a modeling amp to me despite how good it sounded on its own. This has been my experience so far with all the rack pre's I've had. Something about it seems like there's a big compromise at least to me

At least with the powerstation setup I had, i was able to get some really, really killer tones with it

It definitely preferred celestion type speakers though, v30 and greenback style especially

It was pretty scooped naturally which I think lends itself to sounding "clinical"

 

[DanTravis62]

Let me clarify, by pedal clipping I meant dialing the gain on the pedal higher and as a result, the pedal's own distortion gets superimposed on the amp's distortion. Distortion on top of already high gain distortion is what I hate. Most ODs still have some dirt even with their gain at 0.

Pedal clipping could also be interpreted as dialing the pedal as clean as possible but pushing it's output to overdrive the amp. That's ok.

Yeah I generally have the gain at zero or close to zero if it's like the KSR eros where zero is literally off.

It's just to cut the low end and make the amp in any way usable, because otherwise it would sound like farty mcfart fart fart low end

 

[braintheory]

At least with the powerstation setup I had, i was able to get some really, really killer tones with it

It definitely preferred celestion type speakers though, v30 and greenback style especially

It was pretty scooped naturally which I think lends itself to sounding "clinical"

I was using the DCP-1 I had with V30's at the time. I remember mine actually being quite midrangey and very '80's thrash voiced. I don't remember it being clinical, so much as sounding so 2D and kind of synthetic and lacking feel vs running the pre's of my great amp heads into the same power amps. Before I did that I did think it was pretty killer (thought similar about some other pre's), but that honey moon was very short lived after those comparisons and then they just seemed bad to me afterwards

Something about the sound and feel I find very disconnected, which is part of the modeling amp feel I get from them

 

[DanTravis62]

I was using the DCP-1 I had with V30's at the time. I remember mine actually being quite midrangey and very '80's thrash voiced. I don't remember it being clinical, so much as sounding so 2D and kind of synthetic and lacking feel vs running the pre's of my great amp heads into the same power amps. Before I did that I did think it was pretty killer (thought similar about some other pre's), but that honey moon was very short lived after those comparisons and then they just seemed bad to me afterwards

Something about the sound and feel I find very disconnected, which is part of the modeling amp feel I get from them

Yeah I don't feel that way at all, I was super impressed with the wilcox I had

 

[braintheory]

Yeah I don't feel that way at all, I was super impressed with the wilcox I had

From the clip it seems from what I can tell more or less like what I remember of the Langner DCP-1 I had (haven’t tried a Wilcox)

Maybe we just disagree in taste in this case, but I would still strongly urge anyone with a rack pre to try to compare to an amp head with a similar flavor (assuming it’s applicable to the pre) in a fair apples to apples way in the same poweramp (preamp of the head via the loop). At least for me the Langner modded Marshall I had and a few other amps at the time I felt smoked the DCP-1 I had for what I did initially enjoy about it

 

[alund]

Maybe we just disagree in taste in this case, but I would still strongly urge anyone with a rack pre to try to compare to an amp head with a similar flavor (assuming it’s applicable to the pre) in a fair apples to apples way in the same poweramp (preamp of the head via the loop).

Agree 100% on head vs pre/power (similar or exact same).

The first statement you made is probably the most important of all re: “taste” specifically of sounds
We are born with a spectrum of frequencies that we can hear. Some moreso than others. Something harsh to one could be perfect to another. And over time of life we lose parts of those frequencies and maybe sounds get better or worse depending on those losses.

Sight/smell/taste/touch are similar as well.

 

[LPMojoGL]

Pedal into JCM =
Timmy, Klon, Treble Booster, EQ all good, better than TS/SD1 or Hot Mod, imo.

 

[Racerxrated]

Judging by his recordings, Medics morin marshall absolutely kills anything ive heard out of the morin preamps, but that is just personal taste of course

Yep, his sounds like a really good one, and we all know that the donor amp might have been perfect for his mod. The pre I had was very cool; it had a 'sharpness' to the notes that was unique. But it didn't WOW me like I thought it might.
That's not to say that I wouldn't buy one if it pops up....but I did just pick up a cool modded Marshall from a modder that I'd completely forgotten about, that I hadn't tried yet...NAD to follow

 

[Racerxrated]

I was using the DCP-1 I had with V30's at the time. I remember mine actually being quite midrangey and very '80's thrash voiced. I don't remember it being clinical, so much as sounding so 2D and kind of synthetic and lacking feel vs running the pre's of my great amp heads into the same power amps. Before I did that I did think it was pretty killer (thought similar about some other pre's), but that honey moon was very short lived after those comparisons and then they just seemed bad to me afterwards

Something about the sound and feel I find very disconnected, which is part of the modeling amp feel I get from them

That 'disconnect' feeling/sense of is a real thing that I've noticed for years, ever since I started slaving when I got a Strategy 400 around 9 yrs ago..when I slaved the SRG C+ to the S400 it was HUGE but I noticed a slight 'lag' in the response as I played..pre amps, modelers same.
VS a standalone amp/cab where there was no lag.

 

[braintheory]

Agree 100% on head vs pre/power (similar or exact same).

The first statement you made is probably the most important of all re: “taste” specifically of sounds
We are born with a spectrum of frequencies that we can hear. Some moreso than others. Something harsh to one could be perfect to another. And over time of life we lose parts of those frequencies and maybe sounds get better or worse depending on those losses.

Sight/smell/taste/touch are similar as well.

Taste can be a part of it no doubt, but with our discussion here before I still think this part I said early is likely more applicable:
“Just my theory, but maybe guys are very impressed with the sounds they get running a preamp like that into a great power amp like a 2150 and don't think to compare it apples to apples with just the pre's of their good amp heads into the same poweramp like a 2150 and don't realize what's lacking with the actual rack pre”

The reason I brought that part up is again comparing as one example the Demeter TGA-3 and TGP-3 in a fair way, you hear they had the same exact flavor, the TGP-3 just lacked the nuances and some richness of the TGA-3. Both were to my taste since they had the same flavor and I really liked the pre until I got the heard version that was a big upgrade. Same with the Langner rack pre I had, soon to be Mako MK4, etc. I think it’s just a matter of comparing and digging more for better and trying to understand the contribution of the different parts. I think what I had with the Demeter pre and some other pre’s into the 2150 would by many standards be a very good sound, but I felt something still was missing/off and those comparisons were able to show me what it was

 

[braintheory]

That 'disconnect' feeling/sense of is a real thing that I've noticed for years, ever since I started slaving when I got a Strategy 400 around 9 yrs ago..when I slaved the SRG C+ to the S400 it was HUGE but I noticed a slight 'lag' in the response as I played..pre amps, modelers same.
VS a standalone amp/cab where there was no lag.

Yes, but this isn’t what I mean. I’m talking about rack pre’s specifically vs the pre of a good amp head compared in the same way through the same poweramp. The rack pre’s IME always lacked a lot to me vs that of a good amp head counterpart. Just my guess/2 cents, but I feel it not fair to cross a Morin off the list just because a rack pre didn’t meet expectations. If I did that based on the Langner DCP-1 (with hyper mod) I had I would’ve made a big mistake because the modded Marshall I had and Brutus poweramp I still have are light years more impressive. I haven’t tried any Morin product, but would only want to try his modded Marshall’s

 

[Racerxrated]

Yes, but this isn’t what I mean. I’m talking about rack pre’s specifically vs the pre of a good amp head compared in the same way through the same poweramp. The rack pre’s IME always lacked a lot to me vs that of a good amp head counterpart. Just my guess/2 cents, but I feel it not fair to cross a Morin off the list just because a rack pre didn’t meet expectations. If I did that based on the Langner DCP-1 (with hyper mod) I had I would’ve made a big mistake because the modded Marshall I had and Brutus poweramp I still have are light years more impressive. I haven’t tried any Morin product, but would only want to try his modded Marshall’s

I can see your point, but when I hear his modded Marshall clips they all have the same 'sharpness' to the notes that the pre did. So, it's still the same inherent quality that I can tell they both have.
That said, yeah I'd probably hit one if it was a deal. I always thought I'd pass on a Caswell, and this one turned out to be special.
So there's that. Lol

 

[braintheory]

I can see your point, but when I hear his modded Marshall clips they all have the same 'sharpness' to the notes that the pre did. So, it's still the same inherent quality that I can tell they both have.
That said, yeah I'd probably hit one if it was a deal. I always thought I'd pass on a Caswell, and this one turned out to be special.
So there's that. Lol

Yeah possibly may not be your cup of tea even as a good modded Marshall, but still good to try if possible imo. We both know clips don’t always tell the whole story and things like a Rev F vs C, mark iii vs iic+, both of which I’d imagine are probably not as big differences of a pre vs good amp. I’ve seen a bunch of Morin modded Marshall’s come up on my reverb. They all were ~$3k, but sold fast. I should try a Morin at some point

From the clips my prediction is I’d think they’re really good, but still not like them as much as the Langner or Cameron mods I had (or Nick mods I’ve tried), but who knows. I’ll have to try

 

[Racerxrated]

Yeah possibly may not be your cup of tea even as a good modded Marshall, but still good to try if possible imo. We both know clips don’t always tell the whole story and things like a Rev F vs C, mark iii vs iic+, both of which I’d imagine are probably not as big differences of a pre vs good amp. I’ve seen a bunch of Morin modded Marshall’s come up on my reverb. They all were ~$3k, but sold fast. I should try a Morin at some point

From the clips my prediction is I’d think they’re really good, but still not like them as much as the Langner or Cameron mods I had (or Nick mods I’ve tried), but who knows. I’ll have to try

Yeah, agree on all....VES amp does sound really good. And in the end, I tried this Caswell even after hearing YouTube clips and not really wowed by them....
But then I listened to the Dokken bootleg from 86(when he rented SIR #39 for the tour) and holy shit, that thing is off the hook good. Dammit Sam now I have to put the Morin back on the list

 

[harddriver]

We all have afflictions.. Yours just happens to be a homosexual obsession over The Count.

Since this is RIG TALK where we talk about amps and guitars, some of us like to hear actual real world comparisons that are interesting and then we have a discussion about it.

When you contribute something positive to a thread discussion besides....... or "This is the best amp/guitar ever thread" only to be followed up by a for sale in the classifieds then I will pretend to be offended by your Freudian projection of homosexual intrigue.

If you don't like the man's videos you have the right to not click on the thread but I know you enjoy posting your emojis so I won't stand in the way of your happiness. Have a Nice Day!

 

[braintheory]

Yeah, agree on all....VES amp does sound really good. And in the end, I tried this Caswell even after hearing YouTube clips and not really wowed by them....
But then I listened to the Dokken bootleg from 86(when he rented SIR #39 for the tour) and holy shit, that thing is off the hook good. Dammit Sam now I have to put the Morin back on the list

We can’t let these potentially cool amps get off the hook that easy

 

[SFW]

It was . Don’t you think his tone was never as good as 88- 95 . Like the other albums after just sound crusty at times .

No Moe Tears was the panicle of Zakk tone, IMHO.

 

[motorboy1]

Since this is RIG TALK where we talk about amps and guitars, some of us like to hear actual real world comparisons that are interesting and then we have a discussion about it.

When you contribute something positive to a thread discussion besides....... or "This is the best amp/guitar ever thread" only to be followed up by a for sale in the classifieds then I will pretend to be offended by your Freudian projection of homosexual intrigue.

If you don't like the man's videos you have the right to not click on the thread but I know you enjoy posting your emojis so I won't stand in the way of your happiness. Have a Nice Day!

I like his vids some don’t. Don’t know why such hate. Its really easy to be a douche behind a keyboard I guess .

 

[Techdeth]

No Moe Tears was the panicle of Zakk tone, IMHO.

I tend to like the no rest tone better but not my much