Mesa 4x12's - 240 or 280 watts?

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tonesfoyobones

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I've been looking to find a Mesa Rectifier Standard OS straight cab and was thinking about getting a new one since non are popping up close to me for a local sale.
I was always under the assumption that the Traditional cab was 240 watts and the Standard OS was 280 watts. I saw on Sweetwater that they had both cabs listed as being 240 watts. I saw it on Mesa's site as well. Typo or actual? I want to get an OS 280 watt cab. I don't to make a wrong purchase.

- Are the new oversized cabs 240 watts?
-Am I correct in assuming that the OS cabs are all 280 watt's unless it's the 360 watt version with the Black Shadow 90's?
 
Its based off of the speakers installed. If the cabs have the typical vintage 30's the cabs would be 240 watts. 60 per speaker.
 
Its based off of the speakers installed. If the cabs have the typical vintage 30's the cabs would be 240 watts. 60 per speaker.

Yeah that I know but I didn't think from factory they put the 60 watt V30's in the Oversized cab. I was under the assumption that the OS cab got the 70 watt V30's? Was hoping the standard OS cab listed on the Mesa and Sweetwater site is a typo. and should read 280 watts.
 
Yeah that I know but I didn't think from factory they put the 60 watt V30's in the Oversized cab. I was under the assumption that the OS cab got the 70 watt V30's? Was hoping the standard OS cab listed on the Mesa and Sweetwater site is a typo. and should read 280 watts.

Im not sure. I have 2 oversized slant cabs and they are 240 watts.
 
I've got a 280 watt Mesa standard straight cab. But it's about 15 years old. They were using those Mesa voiced V30's that are 70 watts at the time, then I guess they switched to the regular v30's sometime later I guess??
 
I have both. I am pretty sure they are the same speaker. At some point v30s went down to a 60 watt rating to be on the safe side. The mesa v30s are still made in the UK.
 
Correct- only the rating changed AFAIK Older ones were 70, now they're all 60.
 
We did the test, older and new cabs at the same time in the same amp. We couldn't hear the new one that well, the older 280 watt was definitely louder.
 
'Rating change' is the correct answer. Older Mesa cabs with V30s will be 280 watts (speakers rated at 70 watts each). More recent Mesa cabs will be 240 watts (stepped down the V30 to 60 watts per). The difference has nothing to do OS vs. Traditional. I've never found any concrete evidence on why this happened, nor have I gotten to compare them. So many variables in a guitar tone - know I'm personally still happy with my Mesa cab. :)
 
Celestion rated the V30 conservatively at 60 watts, when real world testing puts it at 70 watts. Really, both are correct. My guess would be that Mesa sided with Celestion and err on the side of caution, instead of relying on their own science. In a 4x12, it shouldn't matter too much (unless you are rocking a Meatsmoke!), but in a 2x12 it would matter. Putting a 120 watt head into a 2x12 with two 60 watt speakers might make you think you are at the limit, when really they can handle 140 watts.
 
Anyone else tried them side by side at the same time with the same amp?
 
Anyone else tried them side by side at the same time with the same amp?

Yes. I had a 240 watt Traditional and a 280 watt Standard OS. Used a Bog Uberschall. Ran both.
Standard OS was darker and deeper sounding. More modern.
Traditional had more presence and was quicker to volume. Vintage Marshally thing but tighter.
 
I did. You are right in saying that the older ones sound a bit louder but I think it is because they are more broken in. Also I bypassed the stereo harness on my older cab so I though it had to do with that. Also the grill cloth is more worn on the older cab. It could be all these things. Either way, the difference to me is not enough to make an issue out of it. But obviously tone is subjective, so if it is important to you, by all means seek an older cab. I like the new design with the recessed handles better. It looks sleeker to me. Sound wise, I like both.
 
Not that it matters much to me, but i was curious if someone could confirm what we experience. Thanks!
 
Oversize slant - fairly recent (not sure what year bought used)...

19B0C699-2DB6-4085-A5FE-A9B1CA447EE2.jpeg
 
I've spent about 2 years chasing down the various Vintage 30 theories, including getting some very interesting inside information. I've owned 12 Mesa cabs and 100s of individual V30s of all types and have tested them in quite a scientific manner.

The long and short of it is that the batch the speaker comes from is far more important than anything else. Variations/changes in cone manufacturing are the reason why there is such drastic variety in sound from V30s, which results in a lot of the paradoxical comments you read.
From the early '90s up to about '99 V30s (all types - T3903/3904s and T4335/T4416s) are a lot airier/brighter than anything that has come afterwards, but with less upper midrange so they aren't harsher, just brighter. Around 2000 they darken quite a bit and get more of an upper mid presence. In 2001 they get extremely dark, to the point that you have to mic them almost dead centre to get a bright enough sound from them, but by 2002 they've recovered and sound closer to the 2000 models but with more "shrieking" high frequency spikes that have remained to the current day. The 2003 is a golden year as far as I'm concerned - they're really smooth and warm sounding with just enough bite. 2004 and 2005 sound close to 2002s, then from about '06 onwards the start to develop a more "shouty" midrange (more in that 1-2.5k area) that remains to this day. From about 2011 onwards V30s sound pretty consistent and similar to those you would buy new now, and here I'm referring to both Chinese and UK made V30s.

Mesa changed from rating V30s at 70w to 60w sometime around 2010, but the speakers are the same.

These are some substantial take-aways I've found after lots of testing:
- If you compare a Chinese and UK made V30 of the same ohmage from the same year with the same cone batch code, that have seen similar use, they sound incredibly similar. The difference only comes down to the glues used, which does make a difference but doesn't cause a massive shift in voicing at all. Of course most people compare Chinese and UK made versions from different batches and they sound notably different because of variations in the cone.
-You HAVE to compare speakers of the same ohmage. 16ohm speakers always sound brighter with less midrange, where 8ohms are darker and more midrangey. It's the impedance of the each speaker that matters here, not the ohmage of the cab. I.E. when comparing a 4x12 with 4x8ohm speakers wired at 8ohms total, and a 2x12 with 2x16ohm speakers wired at 8ohms you have to take into account that the speakers are brighter in the 2x12 even though overall both cabs have the same impedance.
-If there is a difference between UK-made "Mesa" V30s (T4335/T4416) and UK-made regular V30s (T3903/3904), I'm yet to find anything notable. I've tested this a lot and when comparing between each type with the same cone batch codes they sound as similar as any two of each type (there is always a large variation in sound from one speaker to another, even if they are sequential off the production line). The odd thing is that Celestion decided to give them separate T-numbers. I've heard this is because of the fact the sticker is rotated 45 degrees on Mesa spec V30s, but pre-2000 the stickers were in fact oriented in the same way as regular V30s, so this doesn't make sense.
 
I've spent about 2 years chasing down the various Vintage 30 theories, including getting some very interesting inside information. I've owned 12 Mesa cabs and 100s of individual V30s of all types and have tested them in quite a scientific manner.

The long and short of it is that the batch the speaker comes from is far more important than anything else. Variations/changes in cone manufacturing are the reason why there is such drastic variety in sound from V30s, which results in a lot of the paradoxical comments you read.
From the early '90s up to about '99 V30s (all types - T3903/3904s and T4335/T4416s) are a lot airier/brighter than anything that has come afterwards, but with less upper midrange so they aren't harsher, just brighter. Around 2000 they darken quite a bit and get more of an upper mid presence. In 2001 they get extremely dark, to the point that you have to mic them almost dead centre to get a bright enough sound from them, but by 2002 they've recovered and sound closer to the 2000 models but with more "shrieking" high frequency spikes that have remained to the current day. The 2003 is a golden year as far as I'm concerned - they're really smooth and warm sounding with just enough bite. 2004 and 2005 sound close to 2002s, then from about '06 onwards the start to develop a more "shouty" midrange (more in that 1-2.5k area) that remains to this day. From about 2011 onwards V30s sound pretty consistent and similar to those you would buy new now, and here I'm referring to both Chinese and UK made V30s.

Mesa changed from rating V30s at 70w to 60w sometime around 2010, but the speakers are the same.

These are some substantial take-aways I've found after lots of testing:
- If you compare a Chinese and UK made V30 of the same ohmage from the same year with the same cone batch code, that have seen similar use, they sound incredibly similar. The difference only comes down to the glues used, which does make a difference but doesn't cause a massive shift in voicing at all. Of course most people compare Chinese and UK made versions from different batches and they sound notably different because of variations in the cone.
-You HAVE to compare speakers of the same ohmage. 16ohm speakers always sound brighter with less midrange, where 8ohms are darker and more midrangey. It's the impedance of the each speaker that matters here, not the ohmage of the cab. I.E. when comparing a 4x12 with 4x8ohm speakers wired at 8ohms total, and a 2x12 with 2x16ohm speakers wired at 8ohms you have to take into account that the speakers are brighter in the 2x12 even though overall both cabs have the same impedance.
-If there is a difference between UK-made "Mesa" V30s (T4335/T4416) and UK-made regular V30s (T3903/3904), I'm yet to find anything notable. I've tested this a lot and when comparing between each type with the same cone batch codes they sound as similar as any two of each type (there is always a large variation in sound from one speaker to another, even if they are sequential off the production line). The odd thing is that Celestion decided to give them separate T-numbers. I've heard this is because of the fact the sticker is rotated 45 degrees on Mesa spec V30s, but pre-2000 the stickers were in fact oriented in the same way as regular V30s, so this doesn't make sense.
Any thoughts on the Marshall Vintage, Nolly?

Great useful info, Nolly. Thanks for posting.
 
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