Mesa V30 Rabbit Holing- 99 vs 00 vs 01 vs 02 vs... 2021!

[GJgo]

I'm willing to bet there may be more to it; the Marshall Vintage for instance wasn't as aggressive sounding as the much brighter version that was 'born' in 1991; maybe on purpose as hard rock/metal was getting heavier sounding?
Who knows.

I really don't think Celestion gives a shit- they're just pumping out speakers, trying to chase what they think people want, and hoping to make a buck. It's up to us to pay attention to hindsight & figure out which pieces of gear have advantages that make them more desirable.

 

[stephen sawall]

It's pretty obvious that some sound very different from others.
I don't find any of them really sound better than the others. They just sound different. The rest is just subjective and application.

Years ago some sounded better to me than others. Eventually that all went away. Once I gave up the idea of some idealized sound. I don't have a problem getting a usable sound out of any of them.

 

[anomaly]

It's pretty obvious that some sound very different from others.
I don't find any of them really sound better than the others. They just sound different. The rest is just subjective and application.

Years ago some sounded better to me than others. Eventually that all went away. Once I gave up the idea of some idealized sound. I don't have a problem getting a usable sound out of any of them.

I agree. I still find a lot of those 2005 - 2020 V30's very usable and I like the added brightness they bring with my Mark IV, which I find kinda dark sounding. I've got some 2006 and 2007 V30's and all of them vary to a certain degree, some have a bit more top end than others, some have a bit of a upper midrange bump. They're all very usable and recordable.

To be honest, I don't think those 2000 - 2003 speakers sound the best with some amps. With 5150's and recto's, sure they sound good. But what about darker sounding amps that would benefit from some presence? and who's to say what the best V30's are, Nolly? who made him the expert on tone?

all that said I still want to buy some new V30's just to try out. I might blend them with some of my older ones??

 

[the other John Browne]

I agree. I still find a lot of those 2005 - 2020 V30's very usable and I like the added brightness they bring with my Mark IV, which I find kinda dark sounding. I've got some 2006 and 2007 V30's and all of them vary to a certain degree, some have a bit more top end than others, some have a bit of a upper midrange bump. They're all very usable and recordable.

To be honest, I don't think those 2000 - 2003 speakers sound the best with some amps. With 5150's and recto's, sure they sound good. But what about darker sounding amps that would benefit from some presence? and who's to say what the best V30's are, Nolly? who made him the expert on tone?

all that said I still want to buy some new V30's just to try out. I might blend them with some of my older ones??

We voted on that in 2015. He's the expert on tone now. Can't be undone. He also won the vote on most aesthetic head shape

 

[GJgo]

I agree. I still find a lot of those 2005 - 2020 V30's very usable and I like the added brightness they bring with my Mark IV, which I find kinda dark sounding. I've got some 2006 and 2007 V30's and all of them vary to a certain degree, some have a bit more top end than others, some have a bit of a upper midrange bump. They're all very usable and recordable.

To be honest, I don't think those 2000 - 2003 speakers sound the best with some amps. With 5150's and recto's, sure they sound good. But what about darker sounding amps that would benefit from some presence? and who's to say what the best V30's are, Nolly? who made him the expert on tone?

all that said I still want to buy some new V30's just to try out. I might blend them with some of my older ones??

I do agree that of all the amps I've had, the Mark IVs really played the best with the ~05-20 V30s. I also agree that this is completely personal preference, and I'm just here to share my experience- which may be different than yours. And that's OK.

Both of the '06 cabs I had, at one time I absolutely loved them- until I started getting better at close mic recording, got some good studio monitors & really started paying attention. They quickly fell out of favor for me and eventually got to the point where I did not enjoy playing them compared to my pre-04 loaded cabs. Around this time other internet people started pointing out the differences as well, and what I was seeing at home was in agreement. So, they had to go. I had even originally recorded the band's first three songs with one of the 06s and later when we got to recording the next set of songs, after showing the difference to my audio engineer we both agreed that the difference was huge & we should reamp the first three (along with the next 4) through the older cab. The reamps are in mastering now, I can share the comparo later when they're done.

To the question of "who is an expert on tone?" My vote would go to experienced sound engineers. They are in a position to not only be exposed to everything, but are professionally responsible for finding the best tone for their clients while at the same time not wasting time (money). Guys like me who have had butt tons of different cabs have a lot of experience, but at the end of the day we're still amateurs. Also, consider that what a lot of us are doing here is chasing the sound in our heads, which is most likely an album tone. This mean it's a tone that was most likely close mic'd by a professional audio engineer. I highly doubt players are chasing a tone from any of our YT channels..

 

[dave74]

I'm really not impressed by any specific years or versions more than any others.
They all sound very workable for what they do(thick midrange-heavy tone), and considering guitar,pickups,boost,od,and amp w/tone-knobs, hard to not be able to get a great tone from any years/versions.

 

[Nigel]

I'm willing to bet there may be more to it; the Marshall Vintage for instance wasn't as aggressive sounding as the much brighter version that was 'born' in 1991; maybe on purpose as hard rock/metal was getting heavier sounding?
Who knows.

That’s when Celestion made the change, Mesa got the new T numbers and Steve Fryette ditched them for Eminence.

 

[Racerxrated]

I'm really not impressed by any specific years or versions more than any others.
They all sound very workable for what they do(thick midrange-heavy tone), and considering guitar,pickups,boost,od,and amp w/tone-knobs, hard to not be able to get a great tone from any years/versions.

Oh, I will beg to differ on this. Marshalls +V30s, yuck other than the Jubilee circuits and the Marshall Vintages. I tried for a while to make JCM 800s, Modded Marshalls work with an early armor plated Recto cab....no matter HOW I EQ'd the amp, the tone was pure midrange honk. Nasty. Same with an early 90s Fender Tonemaster cab. Yuck.
Big differences though when I used the Marshall Vintage cabs....even the brighter 90s versions I could make work much better than the Mesa OEM or early off the shelf British made V30s in the Fender cab.
If you like the tone of a Marshall (not Jubilee) and a regular off the shelf V30 more power to you.

 

[dave74]

I don't mess with Marshall amps period so I wouldn't know about that.

 

[anomaly]

I do agree that of all the amps I've had, the Mark IVs really played the best with the ~05-20 V30s. I also agree that this is completely personal preference, and I'm just here to share my experience- which may be different than yours. And that's OK.

Both of the '06 cabs I had, at one time I absolutely loved them- until I started getting better at close mic recording, got some good studio monitors & really started paying attention. They quickly fell out of favor for me and eventually got to the point where I did not enjoy playing them compared to my pre-04 loaded cabs. Around this time other internet people started pointing out the differences as well, and what I was seeing at home was in agreement. So, they had to go. I had even originally recorded the band's first three songs with one of the 06s and later when we got to recording the next set of songs, after showing the difference to my audio engineer we both agreed that the difference was huge & we should reamp the first three (along with the next 4) through the older cab. The reamps are in mastering now, I can share the comparo later when they're done.

To the question of "who is an expert on tone?" My vote would go to experienced sound engineers. They are in a position to not only be exposed to everything, but are professionally responsible for finding the best tone for their clients while at the same time not wasting time (money). Guys like me who have had butt tons of different cabs have a lot of experience, but at the end of the day we're still amateurs. Also, consider that what a lot of us are doing here is chasing the sound in our heads, which is most likely an album tone. This mean it's a tone that was most likely close mic'd by a professional audio engineer. I highly doubt players are chasing a tone from any of our YT channels..

Who's the expert on tone..?? the experienced sound engneers. You are absolutely right about that and every sound engineer has different preferences. You know that thousands of great recordings have been made with '05 - '20 V30 loaded cabs, right? If I were you, I would have just tried some different mic positioning if what you were hearing wasn't pleasing to you. The high end sizzle... well a simple low pass would fix that if it bothers you. Some people like a little more top end sizzle than others. I do agree that those '00 - '03 speakers are very smooth though, and would definitely work for people looking for that early 00's Killswitch Engage sound.

When you share those clips of the '06 cab compared to the earlier cab make sure it's an "in the mix" tone cause I'm pretty sure that top end sizzle will not be very audible in a mix, and in some cases it might help with certain types of music. For instance, you play thrash right, well that's the kinda music where you might want a speaker like a post '05 V30 for the extra attack. Those '00 - '03 speakers might be a little too smooth? Possibly. You want lots of high end with thrash metal. Just listen to AJFA and MOP, there's tons of high end and attack in those tones. But then there's the extra 3k or whatever in the '00 - '03 speakers, which will help them cut a bit better.

 

[anomaly]

Oh, I will beg to differ on this. Marshalls +V30s, yuck other than the Jubilee circuits and the Marshall Vintages. I tried for a while to make JCM 800s, Modded Marshalls work with an early armor plated Recto cab....no matter HOW I EQ'd the amp, the tone was pure midrange honk. Nasty. Same with an early 90s Fender Tonemaster cab. Yuck.
Big differences though when I used the Marshall Vintage cabs....even the brighter 90s versions I could make work much better than the Mesa OEM or early off the shelf British made V30s in the Fender cab.
If you like the tone of a Marshall (not Jubilee) and a regular off the shelf V30 more power to you.

It's mostly the cab itself and the fact that they're (Mesa cabs) 8 ohms rather than 16 ohms. Try a Marshall or Bogner cab loaded with 16 ohm V30's and you will get a good sound out of a Marshall with it. The 16 ohm speakers are a bit more relaxed in the mids, and the more tradtional sized cabs just seem to work better with Marshall's.

 

[anomaly]

What I wanna know is do China and the UK get their speaker making supplies from the same source because apparently these changes in the V30 were with both chinese and UK made V30's and there is no voicing difference between the two speakers?? That would mean they'd have to get their supplies from the same source and make their speakers with the exact same type of equipment.

 

[Nigel]

It's mostly the cab itself and the fact that they're (Mesa cabs) 8 ohms rather than 16 ohms. Try a Marshall or Bogner cab loaded with 16 ohm V30's and you will get a good sound out of a Marshall with it. The 16 ohm speakers are a bit more relaxed in the mids, and the more tradtional sized cabs just seem to work better with Marshall's.

It’s mostly the speaker IMHO and the cab size in the case of the OS.

 

[anomaly]

It’s mostly the speaker IMHO and the cab size in the case of the OS.

I'm not so sure about that. Mesa OS Reto cabs have a very specific voicing and they tend to work really well with high gain amplifiers, but not so well with more vintage voiced amps, but I know that V30's can work great with both vintage and modern amps, they just have to be in the right cab.

 

[stephen sawall]

My experience has been the bass is most effected by the cab. The highs and midrange more from the speaker.
Obviously there is a lot of variables.

 

[Racerxrated]

It's mostly the cab itself and the fact that they're (Mesa cabs) 8 ohms rather than 16 ohms. Try a Marshall or Bogner cab loaded with 16 ohm V30's and you will get a good sound out of a Marshall with it. The 16 ohm speakers are a bit more relaxed in the mids, and the more tradtional sized cabs just seem to work better with Marshall's.

Possibly? But, then again my experience with an early 90s Fender Tonemaster cab w/16 ohm V30s was still bad; with my 2204 I had at the time. And, I recently sold a pair of 16 ohm T3904s that I had in a cab, for my Naylor that had a terrible honky thing like all other V30s I've tried with a Marshall.

I did have a Bogner cab with 16 ohm V30s that sounded way different than the Mesa and Rivera V30 cabs that were 8 ohm...but I didn't try it with the Marshall I had then.

 

[GJgo]

Who's the expert on tone..?? the experienced sound engneers. You are absolutely right about that and every sound engineer has different preferences. You know that thousands of great recordings have been made with '05 - '20 V30 loaded cabs, right? If I were you, I would have just tried some different mic positioning if what you were hearing wasn't pleasing to you. The high end sizzle... well a simple low pass would fix that if it bothers you. Some people like a little more top end sizzle than others. I do agree that those '00 - '03 speakers are very smooth though, and would definitely work for people looking for that early 00's Killswitch Engage sound.

When you share those clips of the '06 cab compared to the earlier cab make sure it's an "in the mix" tone cause I'm pretty sure that top end sizzle will not be very audible in a mix, and in some cases it might help with certain types of music. For instance, you play thrash right, well that's the kinda music where you might want a speaker like a post '05 V30 for the extra attack. Those '00 - '03 speakers might be a little too smooth? Possibly. You want lots of high end with thrash metal. Just listen to AJFA and MOP, there's tons of high end and attack in those tones. But then there's the extra 3k or whatever in the '00 - '03 speakers, which will help them cut a bit better.

Totally- my BIL was over this weekend, he's a bass player in 6 or so different bands & works every weekend. He actually preferred the tones from the '06 cab in my band's song because of the more biting top end. So, total personal preference. That said, if I was doing thrash, personally I'd rather have a MKIII with a pre-04 cab than a IIC+ with a post-04 cab. The extra smoothness & articulation is important to the sound in my head.

Once the reamp is mastered I'll share the full song comparison for '01 vs. '06.