Mezzabarba Apocalypse 200 vs Mesaboogie IIC+ : Clash of the titans !

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CDawg said:
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Hopefully this is the beginning of a new trend and companies start making more powerful amplifiers.

I don't understand what happened to guitarists. I log on the guitar forums/groups and most people want cheap, light weight, low power, mass produced consumer products. I log on the hifi forums/groups and it's the opposite. Those guys have no problem running amplifiers that weigh hundreds of pounds putting out hundreds or thousands of watts in the living room.



It's still in prototype but I've been following the building of the YDNA Gargantua. 300 watt multi channel amp running a sextet of 6550s. I think the parts and the layout look glorious. I can't tell much from the clips I've heard but I think that's promising for a demo with low volume and single coils. Gives me some hope and I'm a sucker for small businesses and underdogs.
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I guess the factor is the portability of those heavy wattage amps. The audio guys set up their amp and don`t move it around anymore. For guitarist, there`s always the factor of using the amp for live gigs. And somehow, the current generation is all about convenience.

Having said that, I do appreciate high wattage guitar amps coming back. Some of the modern bands are discovering the glory of real amps agin with tube power sactions and heavy iron pushing those cabs. Than there are the stories of guys coming from modelers plugging in in a Mesa KRG the first time and have their jaw drop moment.
 
BesaMoogie said:
I guess the factor is the portability of those heavy wattage amps. The audio guys set up their amp and don`t move it around anymore. For guitarist, there`s always the factor of using the amp for live gigs. And somehow, the current generation is all about convenience.

Having said that, I do appreciate high wattage guitar amps coming back. Some of the modern bands are discovering the glory of real amps agin with tube power sactions and heavy iron pushing those cabs. Than there are the stories of guys coming from modelers plugging in in a Mesa KRG the first time and have their jaw drop moment.
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You're right about the portability. I mostly stay at home and at 40 I'm in good physical condition and health where I don't have issues moving around heavy objects. I shouldn't take that for granted and should consider others more often. I still want some obnoxious gear for home use though.

There is nothing that compares to heavy iron. If someone tells me about an amplifier one of the first thing I'm looking up is the wattage and weight and I'm basing my decisions largely on that. I picked up a Coli about 5 years ago and it spoiled me and sent me down a dark path. Now I'm looking at amps with sextets of 6550s and wondering who's selling me an amplifier with KT170s :D
 
CDawg said:
You're right about the portability. I mostly stay at home and at 40 I'm in good physical condition and health where I don't have issues moving around heavy objects. I shouldn't take that for granted and should consider others more often. I still want some obnoxious gear for home use though.

There is nothing that compares to heavy iron. If someone tells me about an amplifier one of the first thing I'm looking up is the wattage and weight and I'm basing my decisions largely on that. I picked up a Coli about 5 years ago and it spoiled me and sent me down a dark path. Now I'm looking at amps with sextets of 6550s and wondering who's selling me an amplifier with KT170s :D
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I mean, you most definitely can order one 😁
 
CDawg said:
You're right about the portability. I mostly stay at home and at 40 I'm in good physical condition and health where I don't have issues moving around heavy objects. I shouldn't take that for granted and should consider others more often. I still want some obnoxious gear for home use though.

There is nothing that compares to heavy iron. If someone tells me about an amplifier one of the first thing I'm looking up is the wattage and weight and I'm basing my decisions largely on that. I picked up a Coli about 5 years ago and it spoiled me and sent me down a dark path. Now I'm looking at amps with sextets of 6550s and wondering who's selling me an amplifier with KT170s :D
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What? Come again? 😂
 
CrystalSky said:
I mean, you most definitely can order one 😁
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I've looked a little and the only company I've seen use a KT 120 is Wizard. I haven't seen anyone in a guitar amplifier use a KT 150 or KT 170 yet. I've heard/read many great things about them in hifi gear so I'm hoping guitar manufactures get with the times and try to make something new and fresh with them because it's a great opportunity. I'm crazy enough to get an amplifier with a sextet of KT 170s but I just need to find the right one for me.
 
glpg80 said:
What? Come again? 😂
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I'm not even sure where to begin but I sometimes ramble and say RIDICULOUS things . I won't go buy an amplifier tomorrow but I wouldn't be shocked if my next amplifier is a Diezel Herbert, Fender 400 PS, Marshall Model 2000 or a Mark II Coli. If it isn't one of those then it'll probably be something with a sextet of KT 150s or KT 170s. I should have an open mind with gear but I've had great luck with amplifiers running a sextet of power tubes so I'm trying to stick to a theme. Currently 4/5.

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CDawg said:
I'm not even sure where to begin but I sometimes ramble and say RIDICULOUS things . I won't go buy an amplifier tomorrow but I wouldn't be shocked if my next amplifier is a Diezel Herbert, Fender 400 PS, Marshall Model 2000 or a Mark II Coli. If it isn't one of those then it'll probably be something with a sextet of KT 150s or KT 170s. I should have an open mind with gear but I've had great luck with amplifiers running a sextet of power tubes so I'm trying to stick to a theme. Currently 4/5.

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We are a lot alike - I was joking more along the lines of lost hearing from being addicted to high headroom amps that continue to sound better as you crank them. Killer setup :rock:
 
glpg80 said:
We are a lot alike - I was joking more along the lines of lost hearing from being addicted to high headroom amps that continue to sound better as you crank them. Killer setup :rock:
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That one flew over my head so my bad! Once I got a taste of high headroom there was no going back and I'm glad to find similar people. Thank you very much! Slowly improving my setup and have some big plans.
 
CDawg said:
I've looked a little and the only company I've seen use a KT 120 is Wizard. I haven't seen anyone in a guitar amplifier use a KT 150 or KT 170 yet. I've heard/read many great things about them in hifi gear so I'm hoping guitar manufactures get with the times and try to make something new and fresh with them because it's a great opportunity. I'm crazy enough to get an amplifier with a sextet of KT 170s but I just need to find the right one for me.
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The Schroeder Dozer I had came with KT120's (preferred 88's and 6550's in it though) and one of my Alessandro Redbone's also came with KT120's. I don't actually know anyone yet who's had the KT120 version Wizard (KT200). I asked Rick about it when deciding which Hell Razor to go with and he advised me to go with the KT88 version (KT150)
 
CDawg said:
You're right about the portability. I mostly stay at home and at 40 I'm in good physical condition and health where I don't have issues moving around heavy objects. I shouldn't take that for granted and should consider others more often. I still want some obnoxious gear for home use though.

There is nothing that compares to heavy iron. If someone tells me about an amplifier one of the first thing I'm looking up is the wattage and weight and I'm basing my decisions largely on that. I picked up a Coli about 5 years ago and it spoiled me and sent me down a dark path. Now I'm looking at amps with sextets of 6550s and wondering who's selling me an amplifier with KT170s :D
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Someone make an amp with KT170's already!
 
braintheory said:
Someone make an amp with KT170's already!
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It’s actually a pretty crappy tube. It suffers from the same issue of 6550s but it’s way worse - it doesn’t like a high screen grid voltage but loves a high plate voltage (225V vs 450V). You’ll have to run it in full pentode and with a dedicated screen grid supply. You can’t get away with triode strapping a KT170 as it’s a fire risk with how much current the tube can draw. From a Quick Look at the datasheets a quad of them would also dissipate 25W just in heat from the heater filaments. They seem to like a lower plate voltage too - around 400V or 450V.

It gets its power from how much current it can draw per tube. You’d need a power transformer capable of 550V at 1.5A with 10A 6.3V heater filaments. For comparison most guitar amps are 450V at 0.35A.

It really is a HIFI type of tube. I’d recommend against it for guitar.
 
CDawg said:
I've barely played a fraction of the amps on the market and I'm making outrageous demands without knowing anything. The way it should be!

I forgot about those two amps. Did Rick give you any reasons why?
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No Rick is one the most laconic out there LOL. We often joke about it on here. He just said stick with the KT150 and showed me a picture of the guitarist of Judas Priest using it. Figured I wasn’t gonna get a real answer from him and just went with the KT150 model. I didn’t love KT120’s anyway in other amps, but you never know. Maybe I’ll try one later on
 
glpg80 said:
It’s actually a pretty crappy tube. It suffers from the same issue of 6550s but it’s way worse - it doesn’t like a high screen grid voltage but loves a high plate voltage (225V vs 450V). You’ll have to run it in full pentode and with a dedicated screen grid supply. You can’t get away with triode strapping a KT170 as it’s a fire risk with how much current the tube can draw. From a Quick Look at the datasheets a quad of them would also dissipate 25W just in heat from the heater filaments. They seem to like a lower plate voltage too - around 400V or 450V.

It really is a HIFI type of tube. I’d recommend against it for guitar.
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What do you think about KT100’s? I’ve been curiosity to try those too. I like KT90’s
 
braintheory said:
No Rick is one the most laconic out there LOL. We often joke about it on here. He just said stick with the KT150 and showed me a picture of the guitarist of Judas Priest using it. Figured I wasn’t gonna get a real answer from him and just went with the KT150 model. I didn’t love KT120’s anyway in other amps, but you never know. Maybe I’ll try one later on
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Rick's amps are one of the few on the list I will pay a mint for. He doesn't like me, but I like his amps.
 
braintheory said:
No Rick is one the most laconic out there LOL. We often joke about it on here. He just said stick with the KT150 and showed me a picture of the guitarist of Judas Priest using it. Figured I wasn’t gonna get a real answer from him and just went with the KT150 model. I didn’t love KT120’s anyway in other amps, but you never know. Maybe I’ll try one later on
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KT120 seems like a more reasonable and linear tube than the KT170. It’s on the verge of what most typical power transformers can supply without going HIFI nuts. It can also support tetrode or triode connection. The KT100 doesn’t make a lot of sense design wise - at that point just go KT120. The latter is much more stout.
 
glpg80 said:
KT120 seems like a more reasonable and linear tube than the KT170. It’s on the verge of what most typical power transformers can supply without going HIFI nuts. It can also support tetrode or triode connection. The KT100 doesn’t make a lot of sense design wise - at that point just go KT120. The latter is much more stout.
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Maybe for whatever reason I might like something about its sound, not sure. I wonder if some of my KT88/6550 amps can safely use KT100's. I like to explore all that I can. I didn't like KT120's that much in the 2 amps I tried with them
 
braintheory said:
Maybe for whatever reason I might like something about its sound, not sure. I wonder if some of my KT88/6550 amps can safely use KT100's. I like to explore all that I can. I didn't like KT120's that much in the 2 amps I tried with them
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The KT120 has an awful mismatch to normal output transformer impedances of amps so that matches up. For a quad of them to sound good you need an 800ohm primary impedance to be well matched and efficient. Most amps are double to quadruple that.
 
CDawg said:
I've looked a little and the only company I've seen use a KT 120 is Wizard. I haven't seen anyone in a guitar amplifier use a KT 150 or KT 170 yet. I've heard/read many great things about them in hifi gear so I'm hoping guitar manufactures get with the times and try to make something new and fresh with them because it's a great opportunity. I'm crazy enough to get an amplifier with a sextet of KT 170s but I just need to find the right one for me.
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Megalith Beta (and MI Revelation) can take kt120s
 
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