Micing an Ubercab: mixing speakers, clips.

[VESmedic]

I have to admit, as I’ve said before I’m liking my new Uber cab a lot more than I thought I would. I got it in a trade with a Diezel herbert for my SLO, and I was kinda iffy about the cab, but I’m really enjoying it!

I’ve been micing it up lately, and have been going back and forth on what I like: V30 by itself, 75 mixed in full, less etc. I think they are all usable combinations depending on the amp and mix. I absolutely love my rev F with it too, especially mixing in some of the 75 watters, who would’ve thought?

Anyways here’s a few clips:

ESP horizon EMG 57/66 set, pepers dirty tree boost, into my Diezel herbert. Uber cab has an SM57 on the GT75, vintage unidyne 57 on the V30. First clip is just V30, second is GT 75 mixed -11 lower in the mix, next is -6 in the mix, and then finally both at unity. The unity clip is louder, don’t let it fool ya, sorry about that, didn’t realize it until after the fact. Hope people get something out of this, enjoy!


V30 only:

https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/1qpAkp1YJZ7DRfTo7



V30, GT75 -11DB lower:

https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/KXrtam3jUoWqp8SA9


V30, gt75 -6db lower

https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/WnvJvi9UqTXxLZhD7


V30/GT75 unity gain.

https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/52gXNihZ4bXSySDN6

 

[aside]

Thanks for posting these, that's a pretty mean rhythm tone you've got there. Mid cut used on the Herbert?

I don't think the T brings much to the table, clip 1 and 2 are my favourites.

 

[thiswaythatway]

I like the V30 only one the best.

 

[VESmedic]

Thanks for posting these, that's a pretty mean rhythm tone you've got there. Mid cut used on the Herbert?

I don't think the T brings much to the table, clip 1 and 2 are my favourites.

Thanks! I tend to agree, Atleast with the Herbert, it’s not really adding anything “great” for this particular tone, and isn’t really needed. At unity to me it’s just too much and gets kind of washy sounding. But this is the first time I’ve really tried mixing speakers for a track, it’s something I’m just generally not a fan of and something I don’t think that is often needed: and that’s the hard part when you are learning how to get tones or what you need for a certain track, is knowing when a certain combo ( or lack there of) will work or not. I tend to like it alittle bit lower in the mix ( the 75) for this tone, at -11 db below the V30, or just the V30 itself. So many factors though, I am going to pick up another unidyne 57 because I love them, and I’m sure I’d like the results better with a unidyne on it as well.or, a different placement altogether of the 57 on the 75 could’ve yielded much better results, there’s just so many factors but that’s the fun of it.

And yes, midcut engaged on the Herbert for recording, always. I tend to do a general cut of 1-2 db at 500hz or so on just about any rhythm guitar track I do, so this seems to work, although the herberts mid cut is around 400hz. Apparently what’s supposed to be great with the Herbert is a parametric eq in the loop and cutting 500hz instead of using the midcut, I need to give that a shot.

 

[VESmedic]

I like the V30 only one the best.

Thanks! I tend to agree. I liked mixing the speakers with other amps, but with the Herbert I think the V30s only just works. Wanting something to work and be cool or interesting doesn’t always translate, and sometimes less is more, which I think is the case with this: the V30 by itself just tends to sit right and sounds “right” to my ears anyways. My morin Marshall loved the 75 higher in the mix than the V30s ironically, and my rev F recto loved the 75/30 mix, so go figure.

 

[VESmedic]

Sounds pretty mean.

So did you hard pan the two speakers or was it mixed in mono?

Also sounds like it was double tracked?

Thanks!

it absolutely was double tracked. There is absolutely not one reason on earth to me to put up clips or demo tones in mono, when I will absolutely never be doing that when tracking these types of tones at my studio, it makes no sense to me. I harp on this all the time, but for people wanting to really hear the difference in IR’s of slight mic movement, you really need to double track it and audition each position thay way. Minor movements listened to in mono are subtle and not obvious, but hard panning those new mic positions and auditioning that way, those small mic position changes become drastic we need to “normalize” this is in the guitar world, as kids these days say haha.

Each track is 100/100, no summing on the board, each mic/speaker on their own track. 75 and. 30 each panned left and right, not one speaker on one side and not the other etc.

 

[braintheory]

Sounds like you know what you’re doing. You’re clips sound great and more importantly you can hear more detail than most others posted on here in them and having played all the gear in this clip myself I know your clips are authentic to capturing them

I’m a complete newb with recording, so forgive the newb questions, but did you use any preamps for the mics? If so, which ones? I liked the Neve’s my friend has. What interface? Did you use logic or any program like that? I’m trying to learn what I can. I don’t know much yet about recording. I’m getting ok sounds so far in my recordings, but nothing yet that’s fully satisfying me

I’ve also had my Ubercab for over 10 years now. It’s a very good cab. I’ve let my friend use it in his reampings and he got some great results with it. We got even better results with my Kerry Wright 412, but the Ubercab still sounded very good too

 

[VESmedic]

Sounds like you know what you’re doing. You’re clips sound great and more importantly you can hear more detail than most others posted on here in them and having played all the gear in this clip myself I know your clips are authentic to capturing them

I’m a complete newb with recording, so forgive the newb questions, but did you use any preamps for the mics? If so, which ones? I liked the Neve’s my friend has. What interface? Did you use logic or any program like that? I’m trying to learn what I can. I don’t know much yet about recording. I’m getting ok sounds so far in my recordings, but nothing yet that’s fully satisfying me

I’ve also had my Ubercab for over 10 years now. It’s a very good cab. I’ve let my friend use it in his reampings and he got some great results with it. We got even better results with my Kerry Wright 412, but the Ubercab still sounded very good too

thanks man! I wouldn’t say I know what I’m doing haha, just play around until it works! Actually that’s not totally true, I have a couple close friends who help me out quite a ton as they are professionals, so I am constantly bouncing all kinds of stuff off them: everything from mic placement all the way down the chain, so this helps a great deal.

believe it or not, absolutely nothing special on these clips. This is an axe IO by Ik Multimedia for my interface, and it also acts as my preamp for my mics. The only thing “cool” on the signal chain is a somitus burnley plug-in, what models the input section of a neve 1073: to me it is the best emulation of the “neve thing” out there, and it’s a whopping 60 bucks:do a search on it, many tend to agree on this one for sure. This is always on every clip I post because it adds so much, yet it’s not painting an inaccurate picture of what the amp sounds like in the least, hard to explain. Check out the plug when you get going, you’ll see what I mean.

I’m in the process of building my own studio right now, so there is going to be some serious cash dropped soon though. I tend to like the neve tone/push myself as well vs is others, and will probably be buying 1073 clones from either BAE or AML: both are amazing no doubt. As far as interfaces, I’ll probably be going lynx or prism, which is extremely high end and expensive yes, but I’m going to do it right, and want to be able to produce my own music to the fullest quality, or track/produce others sooner or later when I feel I’m getting “good enough”, whatever that means haha!

This was all through reaper, although I use pro tools as well like most, just happened to be open. To me getting great tones is simple: great inputs/great sources, simple great signal chains, patience and small minute changes in mic placement. That’s really what it comes down to for me anyways. I use a great vintage unidyne sm57, great amps, and great cabs, and I take my time with mic placement, double tracking each new small mm change on the cab that I do because you can’t hear the changes in mono, you gotta double track shit and Pan it wide to really hear the small differences. Start with a 57 dead center, and move it ever so slightly, mm’s at a time until you feel it’s right and that’s literally it. Most of my and your favorite records were done this way, there’s a reason why the big dogs often use simple setups like this, only difference being great preamps often. Also, don’t be afraid of high end, too many newbs are afraid of highs: you would be shocked if you heard some of your favorite tones solo’d and just how much high end they actually have: you need it to cut through heavy dense mixes. Don’t be afraid to get that mic insanely close up to or on the dust cap, especially on dark cabs.

 

[braintheory]

thanks man! I wouldn’t say I know what I’m doing haha, just play around until it works! Actually that’s not totally true, I have a couple close friends who help me out quite a ton as they are professionals, so I am constantly bouncing all kinds of stuff off them: everything from mic placement all the way down the chain, so this helps a great deal.

believe it or not, absolutely nothing special on these clips. This is an axe IO by Ik Multimedia for my interface, and it also acts as my preamp for my mics. The only thing “cool” on the signal chain is a somitus burnley plug-in, what models the input section of a neve 1073: to me it is the best emulation of the “neve thing” out there, and it’s a whopping 60 bucks:do a search on it, many tend to agree on this one for sure. This is always on every clip I post because it adds so much, yet it’s not painting an inaccurate picture of what the amp sounds like in the least, hard to explain. Check out the plug when you get going, you’ll see what I mean.

I’m in the process of building my own studio right now, so there is going to be some serious cash dropped soon though. I tend to like the neve tone/push myself as well vs is others, and will probably be buying 1073 clones from either BAE or AML: both are amazing no doubt. As far as interfaces, I’ll probably be going lynx or prism, which is extremely high end and expensive yes, but I’m going to do it right, and want to be able to produce my own music to the fullest quality, or track/produce others sooner or later when I feel I’m getting “good enough”, whatever that means haha!

This was all through reaper, although I use pro tools as well like most, just happened to be open. To me getting great tones is simple: great inputs/great sources, simple great signal chains, patience and small minute changes in mic placement. That’s really what it comes down to for me anyways. I use a great vintage unidyne sm57, great amps, and great cabs, and I take my time with mic placement, double tracking each new small mm change on the cab that I do because you can’t hear the changes in mono, you gotta double track shit and Pan it wide to really hear the small differences. Start with a 57 dead center, and move it ever so slightly, mm’s at a time until you feel it’s right and that’s literally it. Most of my and your favorite records were done this way, there’s a reason why the big dogs often use simple setups like this, only difference being great preamps often. Also, don’t be afraid of high end, too many newbs are afraid of highs: you would be shocked if you heard some of your favorite tones solo’d and just how much high end they actually have: you need it to cut through heavy dense mixes. Don’t be afraid to get that mic insanely close up to or on the dust cap, especially on dark cabs.

Thanks for all the tips! Sounds like my micing technique is about the same as what you’re describing. I’ve got for recording gear right now a brand new Shure SM57, 2 Neumann TLM102’s, and an Audio Technica dynamic mic, Apollo x8p heritage interface where I use its free plugins for preamps (I should probably just buy their Neve plugins already since I liked those preamps best in person too), no real preamps yet and you can see by my sig that I’m not lacking in guitar gear lol

My recorded sounds I think are actually not that bad, but just they always come out too quiet and thin sounding (they don’t capture the huge bottom end of my amps with what I’m currently doing). I think though it’s largely because I’m lazy and not yet using logic or pro tools. For now I just used the console of the interface and OBS since it syncs everything up for me with the video, but I guess this short cut isn’t gonna cut it. My friend is gonna walk me through logic so that I can really do it the right way with that double tracking you mentioned and all the other necessary stuff. He also really knows his stuff, but it’s all a brain fryer for me as a newb lol. I’ll also have to learn either Davinci or something else to sync the video and audio. I wanna make video demos of my gear

 

[VESmedic]

Thanks for all the tips! Sounds like my micing technique is about the same as what you’re describing. I’ve got for recording gear right now a brand new Shure SM57, 2 Neumann TLM102’s, and an Audio Technica dynamic mic, Apollo x8p heritage interface where I use its free plugins for preamps (I should probably just buy their Neve plugins already since I liked those preamps best in person too), no real preamps yet and you can see by my sig that I’m not lacking in guitar gear lol

My recorded sounds I think are actually not that bad, but just they always come out too quiet and thin sounding (they don’t capture the huge bottom end of my amps with what I’m currently doing). I think though it’s largely because I’m lazy and not yet using logic or pro tools. For now I just used the console of the interface and OBS since it syncs everything up for me with the video, but I guess this short cut isn’t gonna cut it. My friend is gonna walk me through logic so that I can really do it the right way with that double tracking you mentioned and all the other necessary stuff. He also really knows his stuff, but it’s all a brain fryer for me as a newb lol. I’ll also have to learn either Davinci or something else to sync the video and audio. I wanna make video demos of my gear

Damn apollo x8p and new to recording?!?! You got some money tied up there for sure! Haha! I’m looking at the x8 as well possibly, more for the future. For now I definitely don’t need than many outputs, but I may get the outboard gear bug, who knows. This is so much different than playing guitar, because you really gotta think about the future when you purchase certain items, and the more I learn, the more often than not I’m changing what I wanna do: luckily I haven’t started my build in my new house yet because I would’ve already changed some things, and that’s the scary part to me.

the UAD neve stuff is great too, there’s no doubt. And I go back and forth on UAD because of that. However, I’m going to get real mic pre’s that I enjoy, and I have a subscription to plugin alliance that gives me more than I would ever need anytime soon. And mostly, I just use the SSL E plugins for all of my compression (bass) and EQ needs. On the master buss I use ozone 9 and/or more often than not the townhouse buss compressor, and it’s just more than enoufh. Their plugs are just fantastic, the API stuff is phenomenal if you’re into that, so for me it just kind of negates the purpose of going UAD, so I’m still on the fence about it.

The TLM102 is a cool mic, it sounds huge on its own no doubt, but you may find it doesn’t “cut” the way you want on huge modern metal mixes. It sounds boring, but a single 57 is more often than not the way to go. I’d start there, because it really just “works”. I want so bad for other mics to work because that’s part of the fun but man, nothing sits right like it, it’s used for a reason no doubt! If you want some flavor of the sm57, I highly highly HIGHLY suggest getting a unidyne 57. That is simply one of the best purchases I’ve ever made for me. They can all sound different, but they are generally much brighter, no spike in the 3-4K range like new sm57s, and they arent as congested and cloudy sounding as a new 57. I’ve got a couple clips of my 5153 through I think my Mesa cab that really shows the differences if you’re interested, it’s quite drastic.

And yes, gotta double track guitars for modern stuff, haha! It’s a must! You’ll hear that low end coming through quite nicely I imagine. This is probably the biggest reason you aren’t. Hell I’m going to sell my two notes torpedo live I think, I just can not go back to IR’s after micing up my own cabs myself. Sure I could make my own IR’s, but I just don’t see the point since I’m building an iso room for my cabs. I’m convinced that due to the reactive loads impedence and response to the amp, it doesn’t translate a lot of the tone properly, Atleast in my experience, because they aren’t even close for me.

 

[Nigel]

Sell those chiner V30’s and put some Mess T4416’s in there.

 

[VESmedic]

Sell those chiner V30’s and put some Mess T4416’s in there.

I have a Mesa OS cab as well . And actually, my favorite cab is my Marshall 1960BV cab, with Marshall’s proprietary celestions. Contrary to Internet forum myth, it has much better low end than the Mesa cabs, by far my favorite cab and speakers.

 

[braintheory]

Damn apollo x8p and new to recording?!?! You got some money tied up there for sure! Haha! I’m looking at the x8 as well possibly, more for the future. For now I definitely don’t need than many outputs, but I may get the outboard gear bug, who knows. This is so much different than playing guitar, because you really gotta think about the future when you purchase certain items, and the more I learn, the more often than not I’m changing what I wanna do: luckily I haven’t started my build in my new house yet because I would’ve already changed some things, and that’s the scary part to me.

the UAD neve stuff is great too, there’s no doubt. And I go back and forth on UAD because of that. However, I’m going to get real mic pre’s that I enjoy, and I have a subscription to plugin alliance that gives me more than I would ever need anytime soon. And mostly, I just use the SSL E plugins for all of my compression (bass) and EQ needs. On the master buss I use ozone 9 and/or more often than not the townhouse buss compressor, and it’s just more than enoufh. Their plugs are just fantastic, the API stuff is phenomenal if you’re into that, so for me it just kind of negates the purpose of going UAD, so I’m still on the fence about it.

The TLM102 is a cool mic, it sounds huge on its own no doubt, but you may find it doesn’t “cut” the way you want on huge modern metal mixes. It sounds boring, but a single 57 is more often than not the way to go. I’d start there, because it really just “works”. I want so bad for other mics to work because that’s part of the fun but man, nothing sits right like it, it’s used for a reason no doubt! If you want some flavor of the sm57, I highly highly HIGHLY suggest getting a unidyne 57. That is simply one of the best purchases I’ve ever made for me. They can all sound different, but they are generally much brighter, no spike in the 3-4K range like new sm57s, and they arent as congested and cloudy sounding as a new 57. I’ve got a couple clips of my 5153 through I think my Mesa cab that really shows the differences if you’re interested, it’s quite drastic.

And yes, gotta double track guitars for modern stuff, haha! It’s a must! You’ll hear that low end coming through quite nicely I imagine. This is probably the biggest reason you aren’t. Hell I’m going to sell my two notes torpedo live I think, I just can not go back to IR’s after micing up my own cabs myself. Sure I could make my own IR’s, but I just don’t see the point since I’m building an iso room for my cabs. I’m convinced that due to the reactive loads impedence and response to the amp, it doesn’t translate a lot of the tone properly, Atleast in my experience, because they aren’t even close for me.

Yeah the mics I got a long time ago when I didn’t know anything, but I wanna get things right and just went with that Apollo based on my research and friend’s advice. Will eventually get real preamps too, but wanna see first if I can get a sound I’m happy with without them. My friend has a real API preamp too. I remember it having good things about it as well, but the Neve seemed to catch my ear’s attention more

From what I can tell the TLM102 seems to capture details well, but a bit dry and boring like you said and also kinda hollow sounding, but seems like that’s part of that condenser sound and maybe it’s just not for me. The SM57 can be spiky like you said. I’ve noticed. Will look into the unidyne version. From what I can tell, the TLM seems to pickup more detail and clarity than the 57, but the 57’s voicing seems to just be more naturally suited to electric guitar. Maybe also a ribbon is good to have. I’m mostly a classical guitarist and have been recommended the Royer SF-24 ribbon mic as the best mic for classical guitar (expensive though), but would be scared to use it for electric

Yeah IR’s are a no go for me. I wanna capture accurately what my amps do. I go for a little bit of everything tone-wise, but modern metal like your clips is definitely a good chunk of it, but some of my amps are for cleans, blues, classic rock, older metal, etc and wanna accurately represent what each one excels at, but sounds like double tracking could still be good in either case

 

[Nigel]

I have a Mesa OS cab as well . And actually, my favorite cab is my Marshall 1960BV cab, with Marshall’s proprietary celestions. Contrary to Internet forum myth, it has much better low end than the Mesa cabs, by far my favorite cab and speakers.

Baste. In my experience, the mesa T4335 beats even 90's UK V30's with a mic, but ya know different applications/tastes are all good.

 

[VESmedic]

Baste. In my experience, the mesa T4335 beats even 90's UK V30's with a mic, but ya know different applications/tastes are all good.

Man i can’t even begin to disagree haha! But of course, it’s all opinion. My Marshall cab under a mic is everything I love about the Mesa with everything I don’t, and better highs and lows. And I guess I should’ve realized it sooner, since all of my favorite tones were Marshall cabs ( black album, nevermore, carcass, testament etc). The end of heartache came out and boom, every producer and band was chasing that type of sound for years, and the Marshalls completely went out of favor, until recently...

One of my closest friends makes some of the biggest metal records of the last 15-17 years. He never use to audition his Marshall ( BV cabs) for bands because they would come in and just blindly Demand Mesa... nowadays, he does for a number of reasons. And almost everytime, the bands pick the Marshall cab or his Engl with creambacks, go figure.... even sneap from what I hear these days isn’t using his Mesa cabs much, sounds like the word is getting out. This is not a slam at Mesa cabs at all, I absolutely LOVE them and their iconic tone, if I didn’t, I wouldn’t own one! But I just can’t help but feel Marshall cabs have gotten slighted for the last 20 years or so, and for what reason I’m not too sure, considering many are going back.

 

[Nigel]

Man i can’t even begin to disagree haha! But of course, it’s all opinion. My Marshall cab under a mic is everything I love about the Mesa with everything I don’t, and better highs and lows. And I guess I should’ve realized it sooner, since all of my favorite tones were Marshall cabs ( black album, nevermore, carcass, testament etc). The end of heartache came out and boom, every producer and band was chasing that type of sound for years, and the Marshalls completely went out of favor, until recently...

One of my closest friends makes some of the biggest metal records of the last 15-17 years. He never use to audition his Marshall ( BV cabs) for bands because they would come in and just blindly Demand Mesa... nowadays, he does for a number of reasons. And almost everytime, the bands pick the Marshall cab or his Engl with creambacks, go figure.... even sneap from what I hear these days isn’t using his Mesa cabs much, sounds like the word is getting out. This is not a slam at Mesa cabs at all, I absolutely LOVE them and their iconic tone, if I didn’t, I wouldn’t own one! But I just can’t help but feel Marshall cabs have gotten slighted for the last 20 years or so, and for what reason I’m not too sure, considering many are going back.

@nero you need to see this. THIS kind of response is why Rig-Talk is the place to be. The Sneep quote about 80% of mix decisions being done with the Mesa cab is a big part of why I got one.

My old guitar player cut our band's first record with an A/V before I rewired it s/p with Marshall sound runner 10 ga ala bogner and treated the back panel with 3" pink egg crate foam. He ran that thing 4 ohm, shitty jack plate with spade connectors and all, and it crushed, on the record. The second example is 16 ohm, series/parallel, and so much more vibey!

I'm not an ideologue, totally an "If it works, then hell yea!" kind of guy these days. Thank you so much for that considerate reply, this is why I come here.

This is RIG TALK!



(Yes, Billy Duffy called and wants his riffs back, Spacehog and Robbie Williams can get in line!)

Unreleased track from the never completed second record, he's on the right with a 5150 after my mod, I'm on the left with a Rivera M60, all 50's Mullard long plates/KT77s, through a wild hybrid 4x12 setup, Tone Tubby Alnico mic'd:

Notice the increased tone with my mod, how much bigger it its, just a jam in our studio, compared to a mixed and mastered record???