Mind fucked an AxeFX owner yesterday with the IIC+ Coli full stack.

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rydia is hot said:
I think a lot of it is (as others have gotten at already) due to the shift away from playing live and more towards recording and online collaboration. I spent my days playing live music with a mix of Rectos, 5150s, Oranges, and Bad Cats, all running through various 4x12 cabs. Ease of recording was never a consideration.
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I don’t see though why playing more in recordings vs live is any excuse for playing with less nuance or expressive feel. If anything I think it should demand more in some ways. I think it’s more so a combination of much of the audience not caring about that and the players themselves being so focused on the technical aspects of getting everything so clean & precise that they overlook or forget the expressive nuances in playing the instrument. In my main area of classical guitar I know this is very prevalent unfortunately
 
People think killer tone is hearing what they hear on a record come right out of the cabinet. Not caring that that great tone was often originally almost unbearable (volume or top end) or fairly ugly in the room, but once it went through the recording process and on to tape and mixed with a band, it was perfect. Crank an old Vox and it can be downright abrasive. Crank a 100 watt metal panel and feel like your brain and ears are being power sanded.
I will say cranked Fender combos from late 50’s to around ‘64 sound killer in person as well as on tape. It’s why most modern, marshall type amps leave me flat. Too polite out of the speaker and crankin’ the presence does nothing. Even all the boutique Fender/Vox combo variations where they’re warm and round and so nice but when recording you’re dying for real bite and top end to get it sit in the mix. An old school Fender and Vox can be dialed warm and round but also where they could open a tin can without an opener. Lot’s of wiggle room.
And like said above, these old barking, sweet, take your head off at times amps, had crazy dynamics and what you co with a volume and tone knob could be very diverse.
 
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skoora said:
People think killer tone is hearing what they hear on a record come right out of the cabinet. Not caring that that great tone was often originally almost unbearable (volume or top end) or fairly ugly in the room, but once it went through the recording process and on to tape and mixed with a band, it was perfect. Crank an old Vox and it can be downright abrasive. Crank a 100 watt metal panel and feel like your brain and ears are being power sanded.
I will say cranked Fender combos from late 50’s to around ‘64 sound killer in person as well as on tape. It’s why most modern, marshall type amps leave me flat. Too polite out of the speaker and crankin’ the presence does nothing. Even all the boutique Fender/Vox combo variations where they’re warm and round and so nice but when recording you’re dying for real bite and top end to get it sit in the mix. An old school Fender and Vox can be dialed warm and round but also where they could open a tin can without an opener. Lot’s of wiggle room.
And like said above, these old barking, sweet, take your head off at times amps, had crazy dynamics and what you co with a volume and tone knob could be very diverse.
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To me killer tone is when it moves me (even on an emotional level like a great piece of music) with its quality and generally has a certain degree of complexity and richness to it. It’s independent from how bright or debatably harsh it is. My ‘63 AC30 Top Boost & 1972 SuperLead 100 sound glorious in the room. Sure it’s very bright, aggressive, maybe piercing, but with the depth/complexity of tone to back that up behind it (the Vox much more so in that dept), like a sour lemon that has still a very rich flavor underneath that. I don’t consider these new boutique amps to be warm at all (that’s what vintage gear mainly excels at). To me they’re typically cold & sterile/filtered/bland sounding, but yes quite round since that is more agreeable/less offensive to most ears. I don’t like the more diplomatic tones like that
 
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skoora said:
So much of what makes guitar playing enjoyable but often doesn’t translate in a recording is how it feels under the fingers. You could play the same riff and chords between a model and the real thing and on playback people may not tell the difference, but which one was more fun to play and felt like you were connecting with it better? YMMV.
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And there you go. There's "sound", and then there's the "feel" of a real amp. A recording isn't going to capture the feel.

IMO it's sorta 2D compared to 3D.
 
Little B said:
To the o.p.
This happens regularly with my ( mostly the younger) guitar students.Recently at lessons,one kid was raving about his extremely accurate killer mkiic+ preset.( nothing wrong with that in of itself). So I asked him if he wanted to plug into the real deal since it always stares right at him every week anyways. Sure enough his eyes and ears lit up like the 4th of July.
He had to admit,now,that his tweaked out preset just doesn't do the real thing justice.And he also made another important comment: unlike his very forgiving preset,he had to be on top his game and technique to sound just as good. Cause the amp was so soulful and touch sensitive and reacted to his playing like he never experienced.
So when I teach at the studio,I will run the students into a 2203,xtc,elmwood,friedman,mkiv,etc...because at least theses kids around here( or even this gen),just don't ever get a shot at the real deal.So i guess it's educational too.
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My man. Speaking the truth! :cheers:

This is the most commonly overlooked aspect of the tube versus modeling discussions. I actually know how to tune that feel aspect of tube amps. You want surgical tight? No problem. Easy to play? Sure. Sound is one thing tube amps do exceptionally well, but the touch response is one reason why I stay with Marshall style amps because it’s what I love.
 
I experienced this myself. Between 2008 and 2016 I went exclusively AxeFX II with an Atomic CLR. I was not gigging so this "rig" was great for home playing and recording. A buddy of mine that does gig regularly stopped by one day and checked it out.
His response was "What the F**&^&^&? How can you play through his thing.? C'mon let's go to my house.
So I followed him back to his house with one of my guitars and walked into his "rehearsal room" .
He had a 1979 JMP MKII master lead with a tube screamer plugged into a 1970 4X12 slant top. I plugged in and "woke up" :)
What Jabps said above nails it, 2D to 3D. the sound had so much more "girth" and roundness to it, than what I got through my CLR. I felt so much more "connected" to my guitar.
I went crazy for about an hour and at the end I said "Ok I see what you mean".
So after that day I tried several power amps through "real" cabs (solid state and tube), but still couldn't get what I got at his place. then in 2015 I started jamming with a band . I brought my Axe "rig" with me, the other guitarist was playing through a Bogner Shiva and a 2X12 cab.
He completely "squashed " me. That was the end of the Axe FX rig.
Now I use a Splawn SuperSport El-34 through several different cabs (depending on the gig) and a CaptorX for FOH that I loaded an IR I created that is a blend of an Ownhammer 4X12 recto cab and a redwirez 4X12 Greenback cab.
Now I get the "feel" of my real cab on stage and the FOH gets a very consistent sound that I know always sounds the same.
So long story short " to the OP "I get it" :)
I do miss it for recording and late night noodling though.
 
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^^^^ very nice @ kmanick!
I,and glpg80 and I'm sure others totally get what you're saying....its a HUGE overlooked aspect.
 
I just played a gig last sunday. 5 bands total. My rhythm uses a 5150 3 50 watt thru a marshall ish cab. I play my axe fx into a Duncan Powerstage 700 stereo into a v30 4x12. I absolutely love my stage tone. I run direct to FOH with a York Mesa V30 Ir. We played last that night and had crap for a crowd. all the other bands left. Asked the soundguy how our tone was. My in ears weren't eqed properly so that sucked. It was my first time using them live. He said we had the most clear guitar tones of the night. several bands used cranked marshalls. skater punk bands. I botched the solo a bit. my in ears were really bright.
 
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Solid state power cannot replicate the dynamics of tube power, in my ears.
 
Little B said:
To the o.p.
This happens regularly with my ( mostly the younger) guitar students.Recently at lessons,one kid was raving about his extremely accurate killer mkiic+ preset.( nothing wrong with that in of itself). So I asked him if he wanted to plug into the real deal since it always stares right at him every week anyways. Sure enough his eyes and ears lit up like the 4th of July.
He had to admit,now,that his tweaked out preset just doesn't do the real thing justice.And he also made another important comment: unlike his very forgiving preset,he had to be on top his game and technique to sound just as good. Cause the amp was so soulful and touch sensitive and reacted to his playing like he never experienced.
So when I teach at the studio,I will run the students into a 2203,xtc,elmwood,friedman,mkiv,etc...because at least theses kids around here( or even this gen),just don't ever get a shot at the real deal.So i guess it's educational too.
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Preach on, brother, I think that I sold you one of my Mark III Coliseum amps. I have got three of the DRG C+ amps that are NOT for sale.
 
did you look at him and say "this is the way." like on the mandalorian?
 
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