Most overrated amp ever... pick 1!

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Beyond Black said:
They only made approximately 3000 of them, so scarcity could be a factor.
They were also very expensive at that time. I knew a few guys with Mark III’s back then and they were definitely way out of my budget at the time,.
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Imagine thinking a studio will splurge 100k+ for an SSL console, or shit close to a MILLION on a neve, but won’t spend a couple grand for an amp that is supposedly the most amazing guitar amp on the planet that would be the most amazing thing since sliced bread and instantly make their tone sound like the black album and make that producer sell more records than god ….just imagine that.
 
NineShallDie said:
It’s because it’s not his own opinion. It’s the opinion of Mark Lewis and I guess he must have the same opinion as the cool producer guy.

I’ve seen Mark Lewis talk about the IIC+ in different forums and VESmedic’s words is basically copy and paste. I actually thought VES was Mark Lewis when I first joined the forum because he said the exact same things.
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Well, we have known each other for I don’t know, 25 years? Probably known him longer than anyone on the planet. I do share a lot of the same opinions as him, that’s nothing new. Apparently alot of people do, as he’s a pretty decent producer if you haven’t noticed.

However, there are a ton of things I don’t share his opinion on. VHT amps being one of them. But yea, the 2c+ opinion is definitely one I share, and always have. When you volume match the 2 amps in a track with the same DI, it’s not even close , and never has been. It is what it is man, the amps a turd.
 
VESmedic said:
The amp sucks, bob rock said it was a 3, and I live rent free in your mind. Life is good.

It’s an overly compressed turd,and a tone that a recto with a boost like the dirty tree or literally any other boost does 10x better than the 2c+. And much more dynamic to say the least. It’s really that simple. I’m sorry you haven’t come to this realization yet like the rest of the world. You know how I know? Because no one uses the damn thing…



Not even Metallica on the black album.
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lol or be a blowhard pedal booster. Go die alone on that hill.
 
Tone Monster said:
lol or be a blowhard pedal booster. Go die alone on that hill.
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It’s a hill you weren’t invited to homie, a hill occupied by someone on the internet you don’t even know that makes your head explode. And it’s hillarious to me. But not as hillarious as you thinking you’re smarter than Bob Rock. THATS hillarious.
 
VESmedic said:
It’s a hill you weren’t invited to homie, a hill occupied by someone on the internet you don’t even know that makes your head explode. And it’s hillarious to me. But not as hillarious as you thinking you’re smarter than Bob Rock. THATS hillarious.
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You just are too cool (in your own mind)
to have an actual conversation. You live to troll. Do whatever you need to do but my God what a waste of time and energy.
 
Tone Monster said:
You just are too cool (in your own mind)
to have an actual conversation. You live to troll. Do whatever you need to do but my God what a waste of time and energy.
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I’m reiterating, once again, for that small brain of yours in there, that you yourself are the one that walked into this. You do realize that, right? Call me crazy, but randomly talking about someone in a thread that said person ( me) hadn’t even commented on, doesn’t exactly scream “I’d like to have a real conversation about this”. Or, your sorry attempt as usual at taking a jab at me in the next post, either. Are you mad at yourself for wasting your time and energy? You got no one to blame but yourself homie. You asked why I think the amp is a turd, and I told you for every single reason why I feel the way I do about the amp. Accept it, or don’t, I don’t care, not my problem. I’m not sure what you expect me to say. I’m always gonna troll you, I’m not sure why you are so surprised by this.
 
VESmedic said:
This is exactly to the T why I think the amp is massively overrrated. Exactly what you just said. Except to me, a boosted recto does that tone so much better, is much much more dynamic, and way less compressed. In fact, the recto is arguably the most dynamic high gain I’ve ever heard. It kind of bounces around a track and grabs your attention unlike very few other things, Atleast to me.
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Overall I do like the Rev C & D Recto’s I had more, but they don’t do what the iic+ does (boosted or not). I don’t think either amp really covers the exact same ground as each other (just different flavors). The c+ has more density and firmness to the notes, Recto’s have a softer attack (even my Rev C), they’re better for leadwork (more liquid note connection, imo one one of the best high gain lead amps out there), and have a certain clarity to it vs even my Rev C IME comparing them

Also, for compression, the pentode, non-simul-class versions (my strong preference) are a lot less compressed and more raw and gritty (Metallica used the simul-class). At least vs the non-simul version, a few of your current amps I’d consider actually a bit more compressed than a iic+ HRG. I can still see why many can consider it overrated in some ways (at least overpriced), but imo it’s an undeniably great amp. I’m a huge recto fan too, the Rev C is my 2nd favorite amp, but I’d probably have to give wizards the nod for most dynamic and may also rank a few others a little ahead the Recto’s in that department
 
braintheory said:
Overall I do like the Rev C & D Recto’s I had more, but they don’t do what the iic+ does (boosted or not). I don’t think either amp really covers the exact same ground as each other (just different flavors). The c+ has more density and firmness to the notes, Recto’s have a softer attack (even my Rev C), they’re better for leadwork (more liquid note connection, imo one one of the best high gain lead amps out there), and have a certain clarity to it vs even my Rev C IME comparing them

Also, for compression, the pentode, non-simul-class versions (my strong preference) are a lot less compressed and more raw and gritty (Metallica used the simul-class). At least vs the non-simul version, a few of your current amps I’d consider actually more compressed than a iic+ HRG. I can still see why many can consider it overrated in some ways (at least overpriced), but imo it’s an undeniably great amp. I’m a huge recto fan too, the Rev C is my 2nd favorite amp, but I’d probably have to give wizards the nod for most dynamic and may also rank a few others a little ahead the Recto’s in that department
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I actually haven’t played a wizard, about the only thing on my list and has been for a long time ive never played. But, I know without a doubt I’ll love it , I can tell for sure.

I’d agree with you on lead work, I’d take a c+ over a recto in general for leads for sure. No doubt about it. But never for high gain rhythm tones, to me it’s just not even close. And again on the wizards and dynamics, I can tell I’d probably agree with you on that as well, that it’s even more dynamic than a recto, I can hear it when people say this about these amps , I just try not to comment or give an opinion on something I’ve never played before, that’s all.
 
VESmedic said:
I actually haven’t played a wizard, about the only thing on my list and has been for a long time ive never played. But, I know without a doubt I’ll love it , I can tell for sure.

I’d agree with you on lead work, I’d take a c+ over a recto in general for leads for sure. No doubt about it. But never for high gain rhythm tones, to me it’s just not even close. And again on the wizards and dynamics, I can tell I’d probably agree with you on that as well, that it’s even more dynamic than a recto, I can hear it when people say this about these amps , I just try not to comment or give an opinion on something I’ve never played before, that’s all.
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Perfect! Get in on the Wizard raffle for sick kids.
 
RaceU4her said:
It’s one of those “you gotta create your own luck” scenarios, I was refreshing my Craigslist every red light back a few years ago, I just happened to see my iic+ similar to what you paid for yours posted “a moment ago”, I pulled over right there and messaged the dude, he hit me up a few hours later and asked if I was serious cause I was first and he had 20 other people that already hit him up offering way more money. Had i waited till the next red light I probably wouldn’t have gotten it. I got my mint les paul standard for $800 and a few other too good to be true deals in similar fashion. You cant just check every few days or so, the good deals are gone by then. I had to stop checking Craigslist cause it just got out of control lol
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I miss Craigslist.
 
VESmedic said:
I actually haven’t played a wizard, about the only thing on my list and has been for a long time ive never played. But, I know without a doubt I’ll love it , I can tell for sure.

I’d agree with you on lead work, I’d take a c+ over a recto in general for leads for sure. No doubt about it. But never for high gain rhythm tones, to me it’s just not even close. And again on the wizards and dynamics, I can tell I’d probably agree with you on that as well, that it’s even more dynamic than a recto, I can hear it when people say this about these amps , I just try not to comment or give an opinion on something I’ve never played before, that’s all.
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I think so. The Wizard Hell Razor is in my personal top 3 or 4

Yeah for leads it’s imo one of my favorite amps and that alone makes it not overrated in my book. I think it depends maybe what kind of high gain rhythm sound you want. For a lot of modern metal like you do I’d generally reach for other amps, but for older thrash and a few other styles the iic+ can also be up there for me. Wizards are great. Some of the few imo legit non-vintage amps
 
VESmedic said:
It’s a hill you weren’t invited to homie, a hill occupied by someone on the internet you don’t even know that makes your head explode. And it’s hillarious to me. But not as hillarious as you thinking you’re smarter than Bob Rock. THATS hillarious.
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Sorry dude, but Bob Rock's memory isn't what it used to be. It's ok, it happens. In that interview he states that when he recorded John Sykes for the 87 WS album, he remembers John using V30s. Oops. V30s weren't out in 1985. Sorry Bob, better luck next time. And, John has stated he used G12 65s for leads and Mesa Halfback cabs for rhythm. This is the normal aging process, we tend to forget things. So, while I don't think I know better than him about anything I DO say his memory is questionable. And, I'd believe the actual GUITAR PLAYERS when they tell you what they used. Lol

Then, to say that NO ONE RECORDED EVAR with the 2C+ is just plain stupid. So, in your C+ hating world (please tell us on the doll where the C+ hurt you so bad!) I guess Metallica's HUGE ALBUMS Master of Puppets, AJFA...I guess they don't count huh?
Yeah, those are super small records that nobody ever heard...yep that must be it. Oh, and then there's Night Ranger, Prince, Dream Theater......yep, no C+ on any albums EVAR.
:hys:
 
Racerxrated said:
Sorry dude, but Bob Rock's memory isn't what it used to be. It's ok, it happens. In that interview he states that when he recorded John Sykes for the 87 WS album, he remembers John using V30s. Oops. V30s weren't out in 1985. Sorry Bob, better luck next time. And, John has stated he used G12 65s for leads and Mesa Halfback cabs for rhythm. This is the normal aging process, we tend to forget things. So, while I don't think I know better than him about anything I DO say his memory is questionable. And, I'd believe the actual GUITAR PLAYERS when they tell you what they used. Lol

Then, to say that NO ONE RECORDED EVAR with the 2C+ is just plain stupid. So, in your C+ hating world (please tell us on the doll where the C+ hurt you so bad!) I guess Metallica's HUGE ALBUMS Master of Puppets, AJFA...I guess they don't count huh?
Yeah, those are super small records that nobody ever heard...yep that must be it. Oh, and then there's Night Ranger, Prince, Dream Theater......yep, no C+ on any albums EVAR.
:hys:
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I just heard a bunch of Nightranger the other day on Spotify at work….ugh did they have some terrible tones….they might as well of mic’d up some kazoos. Crosstown Traffic anyone?
 
Racerxrated said:
Sorry dude, but Bob Rock's memory isn't what it used to be. It's ok, it happens. In that interview he states that when he recorded John Sykes for the 87 WS album, he remembers John using V30s. Oops. V30s weren't out in 1985. Sorry Bob, better luck next time. And, John has stated he used G12 65s for leads and Mesa Halfback cabs for rhythm. This is the normal aging process, we tend to forget things. So, while I don't think I know better than him about anything I DO say his memory is questionable. And, I'd believe the actual GUITAR PLAYERS when they tell you what they used. Lol

Then, to say that NO ONE RECORDED EVAR with the 2C+ is just plain stupid. So, in your C+ hating world (please tell us on the doll where the C+ hurt you so bad!) I guess Metallica's HUGE ALBUMS Master of Puppets, AJFA...I guess they don't count huh?
Yeah, those are super small records that nobody ever heard...yep that must be it. Oh, and then there's Night Ranger, Prince, Dream Theater......yep, no C+ on any albums EVAR.
:hys:
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Do you have any idea how many guitar players swear they think they know what was used on their album, only to find out later ( if ever) it was reamped after the fact? I’m not saying or insinuating this happened with Metallica, im
Simply making a point: I can give you 3-4 albums off the top of my head that I know of personally, and was personally told by the producer this happened. Again, not saying this happened with Metallica, just that not everything is as black and white as people want to believe.


So that’s your argument? Night ranger? Prince? Albeit great guitar players, but THAT is the pinnacle of tone and what has standardized on the internet the 2c+ as the greatest amp of all time? There’s just loads and loads of players out there dying to sound like prince…yea, totally. And no, don’t mistake that for me ragging on his music or his playing, I fucking love prince and he could’ve wiped the floor with all of us combined, im sure we don’t disagree on that.

And we all know that MOP and AJFA were not just one single amp, especially AJFA. the greatest amp ever made…and yet it can’t even hang by itself without some help from ADA and it’s big brothers power amp ( the strategy). Same thing with the black Album, and the list goes on and on…

Im not even talking about what it costs, that’s so laughable it’s not even worth mentioning. The amp has zero clout for how “amazing” the internet has made it out to be. Yes Metallica is the biggest of the big, and that’s commendable. But your guys justification about WHY it’s NEVER been more widely used in heavy music is so hillarious. “ oh it’s so expensive”….”oh it’s so rare, only 3000 made!” ….producers will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a console, but won’t spend comparatively chump change for the greatest amp EVAR MADE?! you guys are hillarious, but hey, if I spent 20k on an amp I’m sure I’d rationalize it too. Rationalize all you guys want, still doesn’t change the fact that comparatively, amps like 800s, Rectos, 5150s, and a laundry list of other amps, are far more “successful” if you will in heavy music, by a thousand miles. Does that mean they sound better? Hey, sound is in the ear of the beholder, and if you like the c+, by all means, play what you want! But there’s a reason it wasn’t more widely used in heavier music, and that’s not me saying it, it’s been said by the people and bands putting out albums for the last 40 years and how very, very, very few have ever used that amp on it. Those are the facts, plain and simple.


Mike morins Marshalls were on literally every record that came out of NRG studios in the 80s 90s and 2000s….guess how many of his amps are in existence? Guess it isn’t an issue of “rarity” on why the c+ was never used, is it???
 
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