Neural DSP Mesa Boogie Mark IIC+ Suite

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PLX said:
I have the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2

Right now, I'm doing the free trial of the amp sim this thread is about.
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Which gen 2i2? I think from gen 3 onwards, the exact level all NDSP plugins are modelled for is interface gain at 0 and plugin gain at 0/unity.

Running them a bit hotter is perfectly fine if you dig the tone, its just a different response to what you'd get if you plugged straight into the amp. For other plugins it would be different calibrations needed
 
easstudios said:
Which gen 2i2? I think from gen 3 onwards, the exact level all NDSP plugins are modelled for is interface gain at 0 and plugin gain at 0/unity.

Running them a bit hotter is perfectly fine if you dig the tone, its just a different response to what you'd get if you plugged straight into the amp. For other plugins it would be different calibrations needed
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Mine is a 2nd generation.

I did like running the input a little hotter, but I quickly learned doing that was causing gain-staging issues all the way down the line.

Settled on about "1" on the input gain, and everything works great.
 
PLX said:
Mine is a 2nd generation.

I did like running the input a little hotter, but I quickly learned doing that was causing gain-staging issues all the way down the line.

Settled on about "1" on the input gain, and everything works great.
Click to expand...

Ha funnily enough, the gen 2 specs are:

Screenshot 2023-09-07 at 13.46.20.png


Which means it has 1dB more headroom than Gen 3. So to be accurately matched for NDSP you'd need to boost by 1dB (or more specifcally 0.8dB) in the plugin (with interface gain at 0).
 
I'm using an Audient Evo 8, with the guitar (instrument) input; the specs have maximum input level +16dBu. my main guitar doesn't have high output pickups, so for some clean / acoustic presets in my plugins, I have to boost the input gain in the plugins.

Helix Native it seems I have to boost the input level on every patch / factory preset.
 
PLX said:
I have the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2

Right now, I'm doing the free trial of the amp sim this thread is about.
Click to expand...
what are your thoughts on this plugin?

I think it sounds great and has a good set of effect options. I found and used a 30% off coupon code: PUNKROCK - may still work?
 
rsm said:
what are your thoughts on this plugin?

I think it sounds great and has a good set of effect options. I found and used a 30% off coupon code: PUNKROCK - may still work?
Click to expand...
It's very good, but it's not really my thing.

Not the sort of tone I'm looking for.

It's is very convincing that you're playing thru a real amp though.
 
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rsm said:
I'm using an Audient Evo 8, with the guitar (instrument) input; the specs have maximum input level +16dBu. my main guitar doesn't have high output pickups, so for some clean / acoustic presets in my plugins, I have to boost the input gain in the plugins.

Helix Native it seems I have to boost the input level on every patch / factory preset.
Click to expand...

16dBu means for all Neural DSP plugins you'll need to boost by 4dB (oe 3.8) at the input to match their calibration.

For Line 6, you'd need to boost by 4.5dB and then you'll be set up for their calibration. These values would work for any guitar, so low output pickups would drive the amp less hard than high gain ones (which is what you want).
 
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What are you guys referencing for "0" and "1" in regards to your interface's input trimmers/knob? Do you mean something like "0" is the trimmer at the 12 o'clock position? And, if so, how do you know what the position of "1" is?
 
Dave M said:
What are you guys referencing for "0" and "1" in regards to your interface's input trimmers/knob? Do you mean something like "0" is the trimmer at the 12 o'clock position? And, if so, how do you know what the position of "1" is?
Click to expand...
My Evo 8 has a software mixer, and an instrument input. I just set it using the SmartGain feature: activate smartgain, then strum a few chords, and it automatically sets the input gain on that channel in the audio interface; there's a software mixer if I want to manually set the input gain for each channel.

I usually adjust the input gain in the plugins as I have more control over the settings for each patch to get unity gain or lead level for each patch.
 
Dave M said:
What are you guys referencing for "0" and "1" in regards to your interface's input trimmers/knob? Do you mean something like "0" is the trimmer at the 12 o'clock position? And, if so, how do you know what the position of "1" is?
Click to expand...
0=turn the gain knob on your interface to the lowest value.

Then check your interface specs for “maximum input level” for the DI/instrument input. Then you can adjust the level in the plugin to their level.

Or you can just dial in by ear if you don’t care about having the real world gain levels.
 
So how does it feel under the fingers? What interface are you using?
 
easstudios said:
0=turn the gain knob on your interface to the lowest value.

Then check your interface specs for “maximum input level” for the DI/instrument input. Then you can adjust the level in the plugin to their level.

Or you can just dial in by ear if you don’t care about having the real world gain levels.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Time to goof around some more....
FWIW, I just started using a Steiny UR44. Spec sheet says Max Input Level: +8.5dBV (10.7dBu?)
 
easstudios said:
I’d actually go so far as saying, if you’re using ANY instrument input on an interface just set the gain to 0 and record like that.

That theory of maximising signal to noise isn’t going to benefit you when the signal is already at a healthy level and other noises are going to be involved. Good luck getting EMI/RFI interference low enough where your converter’s noise is causing you issues.

If you have your gain at 0, you’ll know EXACTLY what your input headroom is, meaning you can use different modelling plugins and have an accurate gain response from each. So many people write off pretty decent plugins because they’re feeding it WAY too quiet of a level. Some need a really hot signal, much hotter than you’d be able to track with (plugins don’t have the headroom limitations of converters).

It also means for reamping you can set your reamp chain for unity and reamp tones for other people without levels being different to if the guitar was plugged directly into the amp. If you don’t know the headroom of the chain it was originally recorded through, it’s not possible to work it out later.

You can dial stuff in to just sound good too but if you want the most accuracy and the same amount of gain and the closest feel to the real amp, then this shit is essential.

View attachment 244802


As in, on your interface, the knob that adjusts the input level going into the computer. All converters have their own definition of what digital level they'll produce from the same analog signal. So if the analog signal was the same, on one converter it could be almost clipping, and other it could have 20dB of headroom still. The plugins have no idea what converter you are using, so thats why this calibration is necessary.
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Very cool. Hopefully you try some Audio Assault plugins soon so you can add them to the list. I like their stuff.
 
Eazy-ESP said:
Very cool. Hopefully you try some Audio Assault plugins soon so you can add them to the list. I like their stuff.
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I own a few of their plugins and like them, but I couldn’t get a straight answer from their dev about input levels.

I think considering what they charge they’re killer plugins, but the low price also lets them get away with bullshit like pretending the rules of digital conversion don’t apply for them.
 
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