NGD: 87 ESP Mirage - 48th Street

jabps said:
Yep, two of them. The white one had the Sinclair Floyd Rose and was not recessed. The black one had the Sinclair Floyd that was recessed. That was really the only difference. The white one sounded better, along with my black beat to crap Les Paul Standard it was the best sounding guitar I've ever owned. Actually all my earlier ESP's had the Sinclair Floyd along with my Mirage Custom, again wish I still had them.

I later got another black reverse headstock Horizon with the redesigned headstock they still use today which I've come to hate that design. The neck on that one felt more like a Jackson Soloist, I never played it much and don't regret selling it.
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by any chance do you have a pic of your two original black and white guits? would love to see em if you do, no worries if not!
 
jabps said:
Off hand no. I've probably got some old live pictures but they are true pictures not mobile pics...I'd gave to do some serious digging.
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all good dude, if you ever come across one and remember, would love to see 'em!
 
Nashville Riff Co said:
haha i should have specified the jackson headstock lol, my bad
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Nah don't sweat it. I had to look a few times at pics to spot the difference. :censored: :ROFLMAO:
Needless to say, for myself it doesn't matter that much. When it comes to Kramer necks/headstocks, *that's* when I'm picky. Big fan of the original beak, although my SM-1 funnily enough closely resembles the Jackson look, but more rounded off.

Normal ESP:
1737404063148.png


Jackson style (long line is uninterrupted) :
1737404248625.png


My Kramer SM-1 headstock:

IMG20231121195916.jpg
 
Speeddemon said:
Nah don't sweat it. I had to look a few times at pics to spot the difference. :censored: :ROFLMAO:
Needless to say, for myself it doesn't matter that much. When it comes to Kramer necks/headstocks, *that's* when I'm picky. Big fan of the original beak, although my SM-1 funnily enough closely resembles the Jackson look, but more rounded off.

Normal ESP:
View attachment 382169

Jackson style (long line is uninterrupted) :
View attachment 382175

My Kramer SM-1 headstock:

View attachment 382178
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is that an original 80s kramer?!

yea man on the ESP's that long curve upwards....ughhhhh i melt everytime i see it hahaha
 
Speeddemon said:
Nah don't sweat it. I had to look a few times at pics to spot the difference. :censored: :ROFLMAO:
Needless to say, for myself it doesn't matter that much. When it comes to Kramer necks/headstocks, *that's* when I'm picky. Big fan of the original beak, although my SM-1 funnily enough closely resembles the Jackson look, but more rounded off.

Normal ESP:
View attachment 382169

Jackson style (long line is uninterrupted) :
View attachment 382175

My Kramer SM-1 headstock:

View attachment 382178
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The ESP Jackson is the best hockey stick headstock. It's smooth looking, not as angled as Jackson. I greatly dislike the newer ESP but then again, not sure what they could have done.
 
jabps said:
Actually man the 1987 LTD Horizon Reissue, I would have bought that just to have had ESP gotten the control layout period correct but they couldn't even do that.
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yea and on top of that the price tags for LTD's these days, no thanks, i'll wait for one on the used market haha
 
Nashville Riff Co said:
yea and on top of that the price tags for LTD's these days, no thanks, i'll wait for one on the used market haha
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Problem is the used market for those late 80's ESP is ridiculous, all are in the 2-5k range. Cheapest I have found is a black Horizon in the UK for almost 3K. Used Mirages are nearly the same. I think the most ridiculous thing is the '95 era Mirages where they were all bolt on, reverse Fender style headstock - some with Floyds the other with the Wilkinsons. Those things were dime a dozen back in the day, they couldn't sell them now their 4k. Pre pandemic those things were maybe 1k. Crazy.
 
Nashville Riff Co said:
is that an original 80s kramer?!
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No, a $1000 RI that I got used for $450 though. Now THAT was a solid price for a neck thru, 3x Duncan, FR1000 equipped guitar.
Turned out someone at Gibson/Kramer was sleeping at the factory, cuz they loaded two Duncan Hot Rail BRIDGE pickups (16.6k DC) in the middle and neck positions! They were supposed to be delivered with Cool Rails neck/middle ones... So I swapped those out for a Dimarzio Chopper (neck) and Fast Track 1 in the middle. Bridge JB is still there...upgraded the Floyd block to a brass big one.
I found that Amazon in Europe also sells the block-stopper that @vultures was linking to. Might add that instead of my single brass stopper.
 
jabps said:
Pretty rare. My white ESP Horizon was fantastic with the reverse Jackson style headstock. I also had a reverse style headstock on my Black ESP Horizon. I think I've seen a few others from time to time but not many with the reverse stock during that era. I was an idiot selling them when I was going through the non shred guitar phase trying to keep current with PRS and Les Pauls, again what a dummy I was.

One thing about the ESP Jackson style headstock, the ESP actually looks slight different on the angle of the stock. Jacksons angle is more pronounced whereas the ESP don't have as much as an angle. IMO they look alot better. I'm sure most people don't really page attention but it's a subtle difference that look better on the ESP.

Look at the OP's picture and then look at a Jackson, there's a difference.
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What angle we talking about here?
 
jabps said:
I would have bought that just to have had ESP gotten the control layout period correct but they couldn't even do that.
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Was the original 2x volume and 1x tone?
My 2010 Horizon NT-II just has the one volume and tone like the LTD '87 Custom has.

Attached: ebony and ivory together (back when 'ivory' still had 3 Duncans instead of 1 ).
Side note: Kramer seriously effed up the jack placement. Way too high up the body.

ESP and Kramer.jpg
 
jabps said:
Problem is the used market for those late 80's ESP is ridiculous, all are in the 2-5k range. Cheapest I have found is a black Horizon in the UK for almost 3K. Used Mirages are nearly the same. I think the most ridiculous thing is the '95 era Mirages where they were all bolt on, reverse Fender style headstock - some with Floyds the other with the Wilkinsons. Those things were dime a dozen back in the day, they couldn't sell them now their 4k. Pre pandemic those things were maybe 1k. Crazy.
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dude i hesitated on a 80s horizon with the regular lawsuit headstock for like an hour and it was gone

some mom & pop shop out in seattle was asking like $2k....

i dont know when these prices come down but after i get my hermansson, i'm calling it quits on gear for a while (the glpg80 amp excluded of course lol)
 
jabps said:
Hmm, the front tilt. From the nut to the top if of the headstock. Does that make sense?
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Oh, now I see. I am not a big expert in these ESP headstocks.

But if we are talking this hockey stick style headstock I actually like Jackson one more. Still both are cool.
 
CrystalSky said:
Oh, now I see. I am not a big expert in these ESP headstocks.

But if we are talking this hockey stick style headstock I actually like Jackson one more. Still both are cool.
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I'm talking about the ESP lawsuit headstock, like the OP has in the picture but maybe that is what you meant. I don't like what ESP changed them too although I don't think they could have done much else.
 
jabps said:
I'm talking about the ESP lawsuit headstock, like the OP has in the picture but maybe that is what you meant. I don't like what ESP changed them too although I don't think they could have done much else.
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Yeah, I got what you meant in this case and was comparing this lawsuit one to the Jackson one in my conclusion.
 
jabps said:
Yes 48th Street Custom guitars was the first ESP dealer here in the states. And yes most of the guitars were assembled up stairs in their shop.

I ordered two of my first three ESP's from them. My 2nd ESP was labeled a factory second, white Horizon (neck through) reverse headstock that was ordered by Queensryche however the binding prematurely aged yellow and they rejected it. It was actually being sent back to Japan to be redone, they asked if I wanted it and of course I bought it sight unseen. I couldn't have given a shit about the association with the band if it was even true, I never cared for them all that much anyway, I just wanted the guitar. That became my favorite guitar of all time.

My third ESP was from 48th street; was a black ESP Horizon that had a small nick on the headstock that was going to be repaired. I asked if I could get it cheaper as is and they agreed. All I know is they were great to deal with on the phone and both guitars they sold me were exactly like they stated. I took some magic marker on the black one and you couldn't tell the difference.

My 1st ESP was a white Mirage Custom, I bought in Atlanta from a place called Metro Music in Buckhead.

Sadly all are gone now but IMO, that era of ESP's are the best they've ever made. They were affordable alternatives to Jackson and some of the best shred guitars ever made. Japanese craftsmanship was second to none back then as they were really wanting to stick it to everyone. I pick up newer ESP's and I just cannot bond with them, that all kinda started IMO when they came out with the LTD series.
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Love reading stories like this. Tons of artists going through 48th street wheelin' and dealin' guitars. I'd kill to get my hands on the graffiti ESP Mirage that the Queensryche dude played, but I think it's going for an insane price.. Here it is. https://reverb.com/item/33529728-es...-custom-1990-nyc-graffiti-graphic-queensryche

Man, so many cool guitars came out of that shop with so many weird specs. I'd love to score a 24 fret one in the future, but I fear the prices on these are getting out of control.


Speeddemon said:
The LTD Custom '87 Horizon has a reversed headstock, but that price... Oof.

https://www.espguitars.com/products/32061-horizon-custom-87

I'd most likely get rid of that Hot Rail though...I prefer more bell-like, single-coil-on-steroids sounds for that. Andy LaRoque apparently agrees with me. 😉 :cool:
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The guy I bought this from picked up one of these cheap just to have something familiar to knock around with in retirement. He says it feels close. I can't bring myself to play a guitar with LTD instead of ESP on the headstock. I'd play a knock off with an ESP logo before an LTD. Idk why. I feel the same way about Gibson/Epis and Fender/Squiers.
 
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