Noise/Hum: The Saga Continues

[ptgold]

its not your guitars man...its a ground loop hum with your home wiring. I had this same problem a while ago and bought a grounded surge protector...fixed.

 

[FourT6and2]

Nope. I don't know anybody else that plays guitar. But there is someone on here who said they might be able to drop by sometime and bring their guitars. But I feel like I did that test already at Guitar Center, no? But I guess it would make a difference because it would be in my building.

That was me. Are you free Saturday (a week from today)? I'm going to Meshuggah in SF, so I'll be in the city anyway.

Yeah, I should be free. I'll PM you my contact info.

its not your guitars man...its a ground loop hum with your home wiring. I had this same problem a while ago and bought a grounded surge protector...fixed.

How does a surge protector fix a ground problem in the wall? Just because the surge protector is "grounded" to itself, shouldn't help. Because there is still no ground in the wall. But in any event, I have like 20 different types of surge protectors and they don't do anything. Plus all the outlets in the wall are GFCI sockets. And I've tested the outlets with a multi-meter as well as an outlet tester. They check out.

There is one outlet, in my room, that is ungrounded. I don't use that outlet obviously.

 

[harddriver]

There is one outlet, in my room, that is ungrounded. I don't use that outlet obviously.

Try the ungrounded outlet that is like lifting ground reference and it might break the ground loop. I suspect some shoddy wiring in your complex they may have neutral leads somehow back feeding into the grounds there could be all kinds of crap if they have mixed wiring which it sounds like they do.

They also could have a floating ground that isn't truly grounded with ground reference back to the main utility feed. Do you get different strange ACV reading at different outlets in your place? Like 100/105ACV on one outlet and 130-140 ACV on another, if so your wiring has lost its neutral leg reference to the utility neutral and causes the voltage swings, usually due to a poor or loose crimp on the utility feeds to the home.

I take it all this only occurs at this apartment in Cali from what I have read in your thread. Yours guitars look like they are wired fine and the amps are not to blame the apartment wiring has to be the only culprit.

The Furman regulator may help but I'm not promising anything because of the wiring wild card.

 

[ptgold]

I don't know how it helps...im no electrician, but for me it did the job. Theres also a product called HumX you could check that out

 

[FourT6and2]

Try the ungrounded outlet that is like lifting ground reference and it might break the ground loop. I suspect some shoddy wiring in your complex they may have neutral leads somehow back feeding into the grounds there could be all kinds of crap if they have mixed wiring which it sounds like they do.

Tried it. That outlet is noisier than the grounded ones lol. The wiring in this building (a three-floor townhouse) is definitely shit.

They also could have a floating ground that isn't truly grounded with ground reference back to the main utility feed.

This is a strong possibility. But what about the other places I've lived in the past? One of the places was brand new, built in the last 10 years. And got the same noise. Different state/city altogether. Unless it's just coincidence?

Do you get different strange ACV reading at different outlets in your place? Like 100/105ACV on one outlet and 130-140 ACV on another, if so your wiring has lost its neutral leg reference to the utility neutral and causes the voltage swings, usually due to a poor or loose crimp on the utility feeds to the home.

That's the one thing that doesn't happen. Each and every outlet (including the ungrounded one) has a steady and constant 124 volts AC on it. The ungrounded outlet has about 50-60 volta AC from the neutral lug to the ground lug of the socket, though. And when I plug into that outlet, there is about 70-80 volts AC on the instrument cable. But I don't use this socket for that reason. The grounded outlet that I use doesn't have this problem.

I take it all this only occurs at this apartment in Cali from what I have read in your thread. Yours guitars look like they are wired fine and the amps are not to blame the apartment wiring has to be the only culprit.

Nah, this has been an issue everywhere I've lived. Could just be coincidence, I don't know.

San Francisco
Detroit
Atlanta

I don't know how it helps...im no electrician, but for me it did the job. Theres also a product called HumX you could check that out

I've looked at the HumX. It has a lot of negative reviews. But it's cheap. I might pick one up though, thanks!

 

[harddriver]

That's the one thing that doesn't happen. Each and every outlet (including the ungrounded one) has a steady and constant 124 volts AC on it. The ungrounded outlet has about 50-60 volta AC from the neutral lug to the ground lug of the socket, though. And when I plug into that outlet, there is about 70-80 volts AC on the instrument cable. But I don't use this socket for that reason. The grounded outlet that I use doesn't have this problem.

If that one outlet isn't grounded then that ground lug of the outlet is connected to anything just the Neutral and the Hot. The neutral gives the AC a path to flow to if you will.

If these problems have always been bad at every location. I guess my initial suggestions are off base then. You might have a bad instrument cords with an intermittent ground connections or the same with the guitars but the chance of both guitars, not likely or another guitar know to be wired correctly. Bad wipers in the pots(but all pots are new) All amplifiers have a little hum to them and if you have compared your guitars to other properly grounded guitars with known good cords and you got acceptable results with your guitars in the blind experiment then I'm not sure you may ever attain the level of quiet you seek.

I thought from you post that the hum is exceptionally bad at your Cali location.

 

[FourT6and2]

If that one outlet isn't grounded then that ground lug of the outlet is connected to anything just the Neutral and the Hot. The neutral gives the AC a path to flow to if you will.

Huh? Sorry I don't understand what you're saying.

If these problems have always been bad at every location. I guess my initial suggestions are off base then. You might have a bad instrument cords with an intermittent ground connections or the same with the guitars but the chance of both guitars, not likely or another guitar know to be wired correctly. Bad wipers in the pots(but all pots are new) All amplifiers have a little hum to them and if you have compared your guitars to other properly grounded guitars with known good cords and you got acceptable results with your guitars in the blind experiment then I'm not sure you may ever attain the level of quiet you seek.

I thought from you post that the hum is exceptionally bad at your Cali location.

Instrument cable is fine. I have like 10 different cables. Noise doesn't change regardless of cable. And my guitars are noisier than others I've tried. Like I said, went to GC and compared my guitar to 5 others and mine were much quieter at GC (through my amp with my cable) but were still noisier than the others.

Maybe my LPs need an exorcism.

Shielding from Stew Mac gets here on Tuesday. I'll try that.

 

[harddriver]

Exorcism maybe yes!

Neutral is a kind of negative but not quite in older two phase wiring, that is why you can read your ACV from the hot lug to the neutral lug 120ACV with a multimeter. With modern wiring with Hot, Neutral and ground the ground lug is connected to earth ground somewhere usually at the pole there is a copper rod driven 8-12 feet into the ground. That is why you can measure your hot lug to ground lug and get 120ACV and also your Hot lug to your neutral lug and get 120ACV.

Sounds like you have really explored all options with this situation and I sympathize with your frustration. Now there could still be a ratnest of wiring like my brothers house causing increase EMF and RFI issues which will exacerbate the issues even more, kind of like when you get the local radio station in your amp when you're playing a gig!

I hope you find your issue!

 

[titanpiston]

I'm having some noise issues as well with my guitar, although the situation is a little bit different, since most of my noise comes from the bridge pickup only (D activator). I'm also in the process of shielding my guitar, to see if that fixes my problem, that i get from my PC, Monitors, speakers, wireless router, and laptop, that put out a lot of emi/rfi.

As far as your bad power issues, with your system my buddy says he has great luck with this item ONEAC 006-172 CP1103, and it's relatively affordable. I have the P-1800 PFR, and i wouldn't suggest putting your money on that one, I didn't notice really much improvement in my sound. My friend tells me the furmans suck, and that i should buy a ONEAC power conditioner, and its much cheaper at 50 bucks. I haven't yet bought one yet though, because my system is near dead silent till i bring my guitar (d activator pickup, mostly) close to my PC desktop, and other electrical gadgets. I think he come a crossed this brand cause he does work on pc/ network stuff at a hospital, which needs clean power.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=O ... 1155792825

Some more information i found on the ONEAC POWER CONDITIONERS

http://www.convergencecti.com/phpnuke/U ... ionOne.pdf

I did some research awhile back, and from what i found if you want clean power you need to get a balanced power if you really want to clean up the power, and this can be very expensive.
Ballanced power is supposed to be the best way to eliminate power problems with out filters, but it is expensive..

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/e ... es_bp2.htm

 

[rlord1974]

So... what now?

Take up the harpsichord?

 

[FourT6and2]

I'm having some noise issues as well with my guitar, although the situation is a little bit different, since most of my noise comes from the bridge pickup only (D activator). I'm also in the process of shielding my guitar, to see if that fixes my problem, that i get from my PC, Monitors, speakers, wireless router, and laptop, that put out a lot of emi/rfi.

As far as your bad power issues, with your system my buddy says he has great luck with this item ONEAC 006-172 CP1103, and it's relatively affordable. I have the P-1800 PFR, and i wouldn't suggest putting your money on that one, I didn't notice really much improvement in my sound. My friend tells me the furmans suck, and that i should buy a ONEAC power conditioner, and its much cheaper at 50 bucks. I haven't yet bought one yet though, because my system is near dead silent till i bring my guitar (d activator pickup, mostly) close to my PC desktop, and other electrical gadgets. I think he come a crossed this brand cause he does work on pc/ network stuff at a hospital, which needs clean power.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=O ... 1155792825

Some more information i found on the ONEAC POWER CONDITIONERS

http://www.convergencecti.com/phpnuke/U ... ionOne.pdf

I did some research awhile back, and from what i found if you want clean power you need to get a balanced power if you really want to clean up the power, and this can be very expensive.
Ballanced power is supposed to be the best way to eliminate power problems with out filters, but it is expensive..

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/e ... es_bp2.htm

Interesting. The OneAC unit doesn't seem like it can handle the current/voltage demands of a guitar amp. And it's literature says it doesn't filter 60Hz noise. So that one's out.

The Balanced Power thing is from a company that sells $500 power cables and fancy audiofile speaker cable stands that keep the cable off the floor. Seems like snake oil to me. Their website reeks of the "hard sell" language, hearsay, and customer testimonial accounts that are backed with very little technical information about what the product does and how it does it. So I'll have to pass on that one too.

But, thanks for the information.

As far as you getting noise when you bring your guitar near your computer... that's normal. Your guitar's pickups are giant antennas. Power conditioning isn't going to do anything for that.

 

[1meanplexi]

Hey Mike!

Humor me and try a ground lift. 89 cent three prong adapter. ground off the outlet.

 

[NaturalBornBoy]

I'm having some noise issues as well with my guitar, although the situation is a little bit different, since most of my noise comes from the bridge pickup only (D activator). I'm also in the process of shielding my guitar, to see if that fixes my problem, that i get from my PC, Monitors, speakers, wireless router, and laptop, that put out a lot of emi/rfi.

As far as your bad power issues, with your system my buddy says he has great luck with this item ONEAC 006-172 CP1103, and it's relatively affordable. I have the P-1800 PFR, and i wouldn't suggest putting your money on that one, I didn't notice really much improvement in my sound. My friend tells me the furmans suck, and that i should buy a ONEAC power conditioner, and its much cheaper at 50 bucks. I haven't yet bought one yet though, because my system is near dead silent till i bring my guitar (d activator pickup, mostly) close to my PC desktop, and other electrical gadgets. I think he come a crossed this brand cause he does work on pc/ network stuff at a hospital, which needs clean power.

What you have is a power conditioner and it's a well-known fact that they're nothing more than glorified power strips.

If Furman's suck, like according to your friends, then major touring acts wouldn't even touch them let alone rely on them to supply clean, regulated power to their equipment.

 

[FourT6and2]

Hey Mike!

Humor me and try a ground lift. 89 cent three prong adapter. ground off the outlet.

Sup sup!

You want me to lift the ground off the outlet or you want me to try grounding the power cable directly to the outlet. The wording is confusing.

You're talking about the adaptor that lets you screw the ground wire to the outlet plate mounting screw right?

 

[1meanplexi]

Hey Mike!

Humor me and try a ground lift. 89 cent three prong adapter. ground off the outlet.

Sup sup!

You want me to lift the ground off the outlet or you want me to try grounding the power cable directly to the outlet. The wording is confusing.

You're talking about the adaptor that lets you screw the ground wire to the outlet plate mounting screw right?

!

 

[1meanplexi]

Almost forgot....just plug the adapter in without attaching the clip to the screw. Then try it the other way with the screw attached to the outlet.

 

[rgorke]

Instrument cable is fine. I have like 10 different cables. Noise doesn't change regardless of cable. And my guitars are noisier than others I've tried. Like I said, went to GC and compared my guitar to 5 others and mine were much quieter at GC (through my amp with my cable) but were still noisier than the others.

Sorry if I am asking what has already be described but much of the information seems to be in different posts. Are you saying you brought your amp, cables, and guitars to GC and tried them there. Or just the guitars and cables? Just trying to confirm that you have completely ruled out the amp as part of the issue. Is there ANY guitar that is quiet in your amp at your house? Sorry again if you have already provided this info in other posts.

 

[FourT6and2]

Instrument cable is fine. I have like 10 different cables. Noise doesn't change regardless of cable. And my guitars are noisier than others I've tried. Like I said, went to GC and compared my guitar to 5 others and mine were much quieter at GC (through my amp with my cable) but were still noisier than the others.

Sorry if I am asking what has already be described but much of the information seems to be in different posts. Are you saying you brought your amp, cables, and guitars to GC and tried them there. Or just the guitars and cables? Just trying to confirm that you have completely ruled out the amp as part of the issue. Is there ANY guitar that is quiet in your amp at your house? Sorry again if you have already provided this info in other posts.

Yeah, I brought my amp to the store too. I've completely ruled out my amp. I've had 5-6 different amps over the last 3 years and I've had this same noise with all of them. I doubt all my amps have had a malfunction. That seems unlikely.

 

[messenger]

EMG!!!

 

[Ratou]

I don't know much about the various issues that can be caused by bad grounding/wiring in your house/apartment, but didn't you say you used to have to have a PRS with passive electronics that was dead silent plugged in that same setup? Moreover you had this that you had this problem in different apartments in different cities you lived in? For me that rules out any problems related to the electrical installations of your apartment...