Noisy Les Paul - Ground buzz and static!

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Bardagh

Bardagh

Well-known member
I have a Les Paul that sounds and plays great but has a couple problems with unwanted noise.

1) Ground buzz - the ground wire seems to be making contact with the bridge hardware and the solder connection on the pot looks fine, and it does go away with your hands on the strings but not as much as it should, and not as fast as it should. The further your hand is up towards the headstock, the more ground buzz remains in the signal.

2) STATIC - I have never experienced this with a guitar before but the guitar body itself emits static and pops when it makes contact with your body. Check this out, this is from me having the guitar in my lap and rubbing my hand on the back of it:



The pickups in the guitar are Wolfetone Marshallheads. The guitar controls are wired normally, not with one of those Gibson PCBs. I've seen some mention that the Nitrocellulose finish itself can somehow become "charged" with electricity during the process in the factory? Beats the hell out of me, but I would like to try and reduce the noise. Honestly the ground buzz is a bigger problem than the static although I wonder if they might not be related somehow?
 
^Probably this. The most likely culprit is the little wire soldered to a big mass like the bridge hardware. The big mass of the hardware makes it difficult to heat up enough and get a good bond.

I really wish they would make bridge/trem hardware with a dedicated connection point for the ground. They know we need to ground to it. HELLO bridge/trem manufacturers...what...the...fuck?!?!
 
Geo said:
It's a bad solder somewhere.
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Even though the buzz is ultimately reduced by me making contact with the bridge/strings? Resistance and continuity all check out between the various components.
 
SpiderWars said:
^Probably this. The most likely culprit is the little wire soldered to a big mass like the bridge hardware. The big mass of the hardware makes it difficult to heat up enough and get a good bond.

I really wish they would make bridge/trem hardware with a dedicated connection point for the ground. They know we need to ground to it. HELLO bridge/trem manufacturers...what...the...fuck?!?!
Click to expand...
The ground wire seems very securely stuck under the stop tailpiece bushing. Also I'd be surprised if they actually soldered it there rather than just tucked it under and let the fact that the bushing is essentially stuck in place do the work?
 
It's weird to me that even my Telecaster's hum doesn't stick its nose quite as loudly and stubbornly into my tone when I dare to not have my whole hand clamped on the strings or bridge.
 
Bardagh said:
Even though the buzz is ultimately reduced by me making contact with the bridge/strings? Resistance and continuity all check out between the various components.
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It's more likely that the ground problem is not on the end that goes under the bridge.
 
Geo said:
How about some close up photos of the electronics?
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I'll try and take some later but I can say for instance that touching the jack plate reduces the ground buzz to the extent I expect it to be reduced, as in almost inaudible (you can always hear a SLIGHT difference between the pickup volume being on and off IME where there is just that little bit of noise floor that comes in) but with my hands on the strings it is reduced maybe only half as much. If I have my hands on the strings at the neck AND my picking hand resting on the bridge it is reduced an acceptable amount, but even if I slacken my grip on the neck/reduce pressure on the strings, I hear more ground buzz come in immediately.

There are only so many ground connections in the guitar's electronics. Maybe it actually is the ground wire under the stop tail bushings? It has to be making contact of some sort or the buzz wouldn't be affected no matter how or where I touched the guitar.
 
Bardagh said:
I'll try and take some later but I can say for instance that touching the jack plate reduces the ground buzz to the extent I expect it to be reduced, as in almost inaudible (you can always hear a SLIGHT difference between the pickup volume being on and off IME where there is just that little bit of noise floor that comes in) but with my hands on the strings it is reduced maybe only half as much. If I have my hands on the strings at the neck AND my picking hand resting on the bridge it is reduced an acceptable amount, but even if I slacken my grip on the neck/reduce pressure on the strings, I hear more ground buzz come in immediately.

There are only so many ground connections in the guitar's electronics. Maybe it actually is the ground wire under the stop tail bushings? It has to be making contact of some sort or the buzz wouldn't be affected no matter how or where I touched the guitar.
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I understand the frustration, I have been there a few times. In my instances it was always a solder that was holding the wire in place but not making a good connection. You can just do the shotgun approach and resolder all the joints. Like you said, there only so many.
 
Yeah I resoldered all the ground connections (except for the one under the tailpiece bushing), and no difference. Could that really be the issue? It would have to mean it’s making a connection but not enough of one, but I thought it was more of an all or nothing kind of thing, like either there’s a connection or there’s not.

If I rest my forearm on the stop tail piece, the ground buzz is gone, but it’s like the strings are not providing a strong enough connection to do the same thing when playing. If I make a barre chord and squeeze hard or just clamp my hand across the neck it comes close.

The static is a different issue, seems lots of people complaining about it in recent years and Gibson says its the uncured nitro finish having a tendency to hold a static charge. They recommend rubbing the guitar with a dryer sheet every time you play it. I’ve had the guitar for 3 years, I’d have assumed the finish would be done curing.
 
If the sound changes when you rest your hand on the bridge, it's not that ground wire. Don't just re solder the grounds, re solder everything, input jack, pots etc...
 
I wonder if the lead free solder cracked and the new stuff didn’t bond well since the lead free is super hard to melt. Might want move the ground to the backside of the green plug and see if the problem contines. Id pull all the pieces and remove the lead free, or save the hassle and start fresh.
 
Checking continuity of ground connections again and everything seems good but I noticed I also have continuity between ground and the bridge pup selector wire from the switch. I there a reason that should be the case? There is no continuity between the neck pickup selector wire and ground (the stubborn ground buzz is there on both pickups though).
 
Ground loops can be an issue inside the control cavity. Often there's a loop of wire that goes around all the pots and the output jack and pickups tacked to that at differnet places. Needs to remove the loop and give the ground a start and finish point
 
Duh, of course I had continuity between ground and the output lug, I had turned the volume pot all the way down. :poop:
 
Well I think the wiring is all fine. Maybe its the fact that this guitar has zero shielding whatsoever in any cavity. My Explorer used to pick up a lot of interference, especially at night, until I shielded and grounded every cavity. It wasn't the same BUZZZZ my LP has, it has never had that problem or static from the nitro finish, but I guess it couldn't hurt since I already have a bunch of copper foil tape. It's just a pain in the ass.
 
Alright, shielding the control cavities did the trick and I'm not kidding when I say night and day difference. Must not have been just ground buzz from the electronics themselves but interference in the signal I was hearing.

Back when I had tried to go digital for a while with a Kemper and some in the box amp sims I became way more sensitive to EMI/RF interference in my signal because that interference or any increase in noise floor of the instrument signal going into the digital amps causes weird artifacts that can really drive you crazy. I went crazy shielding every cavity of every guitar I had.
 
My 79' Les Paul with Super Distortions was once a gainy, hairy and noisy bastard.

I must've resoldered every joint in it and eliminated the ground wire from all 4 pots in a circle to a clockwise pattern onto the ground of input jack.

The real solution was too, shielding the cavity cover and viola' - dead silent after.

My Strats have benefited from shielding the cavities as well, including around pickups. I really can't tell if it tamed any highs but can DEFINITELY tell it is light years quieter.

Faraday Cage. It's science.
 
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