Noobish Floyd Question

[korgtuner]

Finally after listening too much to Alexi Laiho I have decided to jump into the "locking tremolo" wagon! Of course, like every other guy who gets the bar for the first time, after a few hours of endless and pointless whammy wankery, what had to happen eventually happened, a bad horsie ended in a CLINKKKKKKKKKK, A string's gone...

So I decided to change gauges to be able to play along my idols in D stardard and Drop C, but after changing all the strings with a set of 11-52s and turning them up to pitch, I realised that the bridge shouldn't be pointing to the Southern Hemisphere. You guys can laugh, but I'm sure every of you has experienced the same .

Well, the bridge is completely out of the cavity as if I were dive-bombing. I have tried to increase the spring tension, but I fear I ran out of headroom, after half a turn the screws are way too hard to turn, which hardly makes the bridge come down (I relieved the string tension before turning the screws). There are 4 springs in there, should I go and buy another one? What do I have to do?

BTW, I tuned the guitar very flat so that now the bridge is completely horizontal, as I think it will be more "comfotable" for the guitar. Is that the good way to keep it until I get it sorted?

I'm looking forward to your advice .

 

[mrp5150]

4 springs should be more than plenty for Drop C tuning and the gauges of strings you're using. I've only needed 4 springs for B tuning and 13-60's on every Floyded guitar I've owned.

 

[Anonymous]

Your only choice is to increase the spring tension by driving those screws in further. If you can no longer drive them in, remove them and drill out the holes a bit more so that they can completely screwed in. If you can then screw them in completely and the bridge is not parallel to the body when tuned to your desired tuning, you have a major problem that I do not know how to resolve. BTW - once you get this sorted out, you'll need to completely re-intonate the Floyd, which is a pain in the ass. You likely will need a truss adjust as well assuming you used to use lighter strings. If I were you, I'd take the guitar to a tech and have them set it up....

Steve

 

[cyndicate]

If its floating up it has too much tension, turn the screws the other way. I am tuned Drop-C with 11-52's and 3 springs is more than enough.

 

[badger71]

http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/tuning.htm

Well...if you've upped the gauge of string, yet dropped your tuning, then the result should almost be a push....almost. The above article touches on this somewhat. You just have to be fast and get into the vicinity of proper pitch with the nut unlocked all while watching out for the trem angle. Once you're in the ball park, lock that bitch and use your fine tuners. Then, once the bridge is set parallel and you're locked...stretch those strings even more...dive bombs, pull ups, bends, etc....Everything will be out of whack...and the process starts over again. More than likely, your bridge will be pulled into the cavity because of the loosened tension of the strings from stretching. If that's the case, just work the claw a little instead of loosening the nut. Everyone has their own take, but from the sound of it, you may just have to start over. And Steve's right, you'll probably have to get a setup done which means they'll do all this hassle for you.

 

[korgtuner]

OK, I think the guitar tomorrow goes to the tech. Any advice on what string tension should I leave the guitar on for the night?

 

[badger71]

If it were me: I'd probably just take the strings off. The tech will have it for a couple days to adjust the truss rod, let the strings stretch, adjust the saddles/shims, etc....If you don't feel comfortable with that, just leave it be....as long as you can latch the case.

 

[Copperhead]

If it's a free floating, and in the middle somewhere, you are fine. Like Steve said, you are going to have to decide on what gauge string and which tuning you are going to stay in, and the guitar will have to be set up that way, neck relief as well. Once it is set up, stick with the same brand of strings, on a free-floating bridge I've experienced variances in tension at pitch from manufacturer to manufacturer.

DO NOT TAKE THE STRINGS OFF!!
The spring tension from the bridge will suddenly pull the bridge off the pivots and try to suck the bridge down into the rout. You could chip the finish, get the bridge wedged in there, or even hurt yourself by pinching your finger in between. Seriously!

 

[cyndicate]

I thought turning the screws in increases tension Isn't the reason his bridge is floating at a higher angle because he has too much tension? I had the same problem and unscrewing the screws to relieve the tension on the strings fixed it. Am I looking at it the right way?

 

[Copperhead]

I thought turning the screws in increases tension Isn't the reason his bridge is floating at a higher angle because he has too much tension? I had the same problem and unscrewing the screws to relieve the tension on the strings fixed it. Am I looking at it the right way?

Naaaaa- he says he is in dive and only tightened the spring screws 1/2 turn! Sometimes you have to go 4-5 complete turns, depending on string gauge and tuning, I did a guy's who went from 9's to freakin' 12's in standard tuning!!
So if he doesn't have a screwdriver that fits right, and is not comfortable crankin' on the screws, then most certainly he isn't going to know how to set the neck or intonation right either, so just let him take it in to a tech.

On a free floating in standard tuning, I like 9's and two springs, which also requires that you crank 'em up pretty far when you take the third spring off. Never have seen a guitar with all 4 springs on, though.

 

[badger71]

DO NOT TAKE THE STRINGS OFF!!
The spring tension from the bridge will suddenly pull the bridge off the pivots and try to suck the bridge down into the rout. You could chip the finish, get the bridge wedged in there, or even hurt yourself by pinching your finger in between. Seriously!

I stand somewhat corrected. I will usually block the trem to keep the springs from sucking the plate into the cavity....I just never really think about the whole process....I just do it. But yeah, what he said!

 

[cyndicate]

I thought turning the screws in increases tension Isn't the reason his bridge is floating at a higher angle because he has too much tension? I had the same problem and unscrewing the screws to relieve the tension on the strings fixed it. Am I looking at it the right way?

Naaaaa- he says he is in dive and only tightened the spring screws 1/2 turn! Sometimes you have to go 4-5 complete turns, depending on string gauge and tuning, I did a guy's who went from 9's to freakin' 12's in standard tuning!!
So if he doesn't have a screwdriver that fits right, and is not comfortable crankin' on the screws, then most certainly he isn't going to know how to set the neck or intonation right either, so just let him take it in to a tech.

On a free floating in standard tuning, I like 9's and two springs, which also requires that you crank 'em up pretty far when you take the third spring off. Never have seen a guitar with all 4 springs on, though.

I guess I misread, I thought when he said he had no more headroom I thought he meant that the screws were already all the way inside, therefore unable to turn. I wonder how I setup my guitars, I just screw around with it for a hour or 2 and then it just ends up right where I want it somehow

and 9 to 12's in standard is insane

 

[badger71]

I just went from 9s to 10s on a free floater with a 24.75 scale...Jackson Fusion...so I just went through all this mess. It was a flurry of tuning, locking/unlocking, and screw driver twisting all while hearing my wife tell me to quit swearing around our son. Good times...good times....

 

[Copperhead]

The first thing I do is make sure it is setup correctly where it is at. I like to keep the main body of the bridge parallel to the body of the guitar, then set bridge height and neck relief together from there, I keep the nutlocks off and the tuner on as I'm working. If it's a bolt-on neck, and I'm already pretty sure I'm not pulling the neck to shim it, I make sure the neck bolts are real tight.
I replace the strings one at a time. When I was young and stupid, I would cut them all except the low E, or whatever your lowest bass sting is, then hold the bridge in place with the tremelo arm while I changed that one. I stopped doing it this way however, when the tremelo arm on my Ibanez actually snapped at the bend! It was quite exciting, the loud noise as the bridge slammed into the body, this is why I caution not to take the strings off, those springs contain more potential energy than you realize.
Anyways, if you know you're going up in tension, just start doing things gradually, start to tune, as the bridge starts to angle down from parallel, bring it back even with the 2 screws, then check the neck relief, you know everything is going to have to be tighter. If it was setup properly before you started, you should not have to move the bridge height much, if any, depending on how the fatter strings sit in the nut and saddles.
You do not have to lock the nut when doing this. Tension at pitch is tension at pitch regardless it the nut is locked or not. I know tuning can change when you lock it, but if it was setup in tune with the locks off, returning the guitar to in tune with the nut locked, all things will be the same.

 

[korgtuner]

I have in mind that I have to decide which gauge/tuning I have to have my guitar set up. But, minor gauge or brand changes shouldn't require a tech right?

I'm thinking of installing a D-tuna and a tremol-no, do these need deep adjustments to the set up of the guitar (I mean spring tension, truss rod, etc)?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm thinking of installing a D-tuna and a tremol-no, do these need deep adjustments to the set up of the guitar (I mean spring tension, truss rod, etc)?

No, but if you are going to a tech, I recommend you have him install those parts...

Steve

 

[TX6Strings]

This is exactly why I have only one guitar with a floating floyd and will never buy another...AND quit bothering with the locking nuts!

 

[Copperhead]

I will usually block the trem to keep the springs from sucking the plate into the cavity....I just never really think about the whole process....I just do it. But yeah, what he said!

If I'm taking the guitar apart for whatever reason, I'll loosen all the strings a bunch until the bridge gets to "that point" where it is not going to rock back any further without popping out of position. Then I'll take off all the springs except for one. Next, I'll cut all the strings except for the D string in the middle, which I will loosen even more. At this point you can hold on to the bridge and slip off the last spring, then lift the bridge clear and clip the last string, just a heck of a lot easier to deal with, with most of the tension on both sides removed. It can be real fun getting it back together too, but I will do the same thing in reverse. Put the D string on with no tension, then slip one spring on and tighten the D string until the bridge stays in place.

 

[moronmountain]

I thought turning the screws in increases tension Isn't the reason his bridge is floating at a higher angle because he has too much tension? I had the same problem and unscrewing the screws to relieve the tension on the strings fixed it. Am I looking at it the right way?

As you tighten the springs to "pull down" the bridge it makes the tuning go sharp. You loosen the strings to make it come back down to pitch and it lowers the bridge even more. So yes tightening the springs increases the tension, but you still have to do it to lower the back end of the bridge. I usually adjust one half turn of the spring screws, tune the guitar, then repeat until the bridge is level. To the OP, 4 springs should be plenty in most cases.

 

[cyndicate]

I thought turning the screws in increases tension Isn't the reason his bridge is floating at a higher angle because he has too much tension? I had the same problem and unscrewing the screws to relieve the tension on the strings fixed it. Am I looking at it the right way?

As you tighten the springs to "pull down" the bridge it makes the tuning go sharp. You loosen the strings to make it come back down to pitch and it lowers the bridge even more. So yes tightening the springs increases the tension, but you still have to do it to lower the back end of the bridge. I usually adjust one half turn of the spring screws, tune the guitar, then repeat until the bridge is level. To the OP, 4 springs should be plenty in most cases.

Cool thanks for clearing that up! I never really knew the reasoning behind it, thats pretty much how I did it to fix my problem last time but I didn't really know what I was doing, just that it seemed like it was working