NPWD : Another New Rabbit Hole

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scottosan

scottosan

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I’ve really wanted to do this for years. I’ve hooked up with an local pickup winder who’s been helping me out. I’ve done some sets on other peoples winder but figured it’s time to just buy one.

I’m going to be doing a batch of PAFs with degaussed A3 and a batch with degaussed UOA5s and send them out to a few people on the forum for R&D feedback. That will probably be about 30 days. If you are into unpotted PAF types hit me up and maybe I’ll send a
 
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I’m building an autotraverse to use for PAFs that will give me a more replicateable wind pattern and turns per layer to mimic the vintage Leesona wind patterns
 
This will be very cool to follow and see how you do. I would think it is going to take some time but you could really get into some good stuff!
 
Cool. Similar to what they use for loudspeaker coils.

cheap-price-voice-coil-winding-machine201912261156155110278.jpg


TIP: Don't wear ties or any jewelry around your new winder.

:whistle:
 
I've thought about this rabbit hole for years! But then I say to myself..am I really going to do any better than any of the builders out there?

Spoiler Alert : Nope

But i hope you wind some kickass pups!
 
I've thought about this rabbit hole for years! But then I say to myself..am I really going to do any better than any of the builders out there?

Spoiler Alert : Nope

But i hope you wind some kickass pups

I’ve though about this long an hard. Been building and modding amps forever. The reality is that you’re no going to get rich in any boutique music manufacturing business unless you somewhat mass produce. Amps are very expensive, not only for parts but labor intensive, expensive to ship, and require much more overhead if you want to do it the right way.

Pickups on the other had are lower upfront costs for parts. Don’t take long to do if you do things in batches, cheap to ship and open yourself up to a much larger market as pickups are much more affordable. I’m not looking to do this full time, as I have a great day job. But I want to retire an move to Japan in 10 years. I would like to have a hobby with supplemental income. The Japanese are hardcore about PAFs and less completion over there. Parts would be easy for me to obtain and reasonable to ship. Yes, there are a lot of winders out there. I think many try to take on the world, but end up with a menu of items, but no signature items. I’ve studied a lot about what makes certain pickups what they are.

How many winders advertise veintage spec handwound PAFs? Alot! Well, the reality is that original PAFs were not hand wound. They were machine wound and had an automatic traverse mechanism with lobed cams set to specific amount of winds per layer. The coils had inconsistent numbers of winds due to the lack of auto stops resulting in 2 resonant peaks giving them a unique sound. Additionally, over time when you have magnet mounted 6 inches from 1 another with a N to N or S to S configuration they will degauss over time. Sitting close to a guitar cabinet for decades can have the same affect. The key is to have access to some of the better sounding PAF and measuring the magnet strength and doing your best to get the recipe right l. But, there is no pickup that is the all encompassing “PAF” sound, because PAF specs were all over the place. You end up with replicas that simply sound like a specific PAF. I am very OCD when it comes to getting magnets just right. Most people would be surprised how different you can make a pickup sound playing with its gauss strength. But there’s a technique there as well. During the process you can weaken it too much or even pretty easily reverse the polarity. Anyone would builds what they call a PAF clone and puts in a fully charged ALNICO 5 magnet is building what one may have sounded like 60+ years ago, which in reality will sound boring like a PAF as we k is it today. So, I guess my point is that I am not going to approach it as an winder/assembler, but take into consideration the technical aspects of why a 60 year old pickup sounds the way it does. And I have some very specific pickups that I am trying to replicate. 1 is a standard PAF and the other is the Greco Dry Z which was only made for 2 years in the early 80s and fetch tons of money.
 
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Aww shit.. Now U done it..
Wellness Checks will need to be arranged..
 
I’ve though about this long an hard. Been building and modding amps forever. The reality is that you’re no going to get rich in any boutique music manufacturing business unless you somewhat mass produce. Amps are very expensive, not only for parts but labor intensive, expensive to ship, and require much more overhead if you want to do it the right way.

Pickups on the other had are lower upfront costs for parts. Don’t take long to do if you do things in batches, cheap to ship and open yourself up to a much larger market as pickups are much more affordable. I’m not looking to do this full time, as I have a great day job. But I want to retire an move to Japan in 10 years. I would like to have a hobby with supplemental income. The Japanese are hardcore about PAFs and less completion over there. Parts would be easy for me to obtain and reasonable to ship. Yes, there are a lot of winders out there. I think many try to take on the world, but end up with a menu of items, but no signature items. I’ve studied a lot about what makes certain pickups what they are.

How many winders advertise veintage spec handwound PAFs? Alot! Well, the reality is that original PAFs were not hand wound. They were machine wound and had an automatic traverse mechanism with lobed cams set to specific amount of winds per layer. The coils had inconsistent numbers of winds due to the lack of auto stops resulting in 2 resonant peaks giving them a unique sound. Additionally, over time when you have magnet mounted 6 inches from 1 another with a N to N or S to S configuration they will degauss over time. Sitting close to a guitar cabinet for decades can have the same affect. The key is to have access to some of the better sounding PAF and measuring the magnet strength and doing your best to get the recipe right l. But, there is no pickup that is the all encompassing “PAF” sound, because PAF specs were all over the place. You end up with replicas that simply sound like a specific PAF. I am very OCD when it comes to getting magnets just right. Most people would be surprised how different you can make a pickup sound playing with its gauss strength. But there’s a technique there as well. During the process you can weaken it too much or even pretty easily reverse the polarity. Anyone would builds what they call a PAF clone and puts in a fully charged ALNICO 5 magnet is building what one may have sounded like 60+ years ago, which in reality will sound boring like a PAF as we k is it today. So, I guess my point is that I am not going to approach it as an winder/assembler, but take into consideration the technical aspects of why a 60 year old pickup sounds the way it does. And I have some very specific pickups that I am trying to replicate. 1 is a standard PAF and the other is the Greco Dry Z which was only made for 2 years in the early 80s and fetch tons of money.
Good for you man? Good luck with the endeavor!
 
Still waiting for parts to come in today then I’ll be ready to start. So, I decided to try a few things. PAFs were not hand wound and I can’t get a leesona winder. But, the turns per layer are documented and it’s relatively easy to get in the window of proper tension. I plan to hand wind strat and tele pickups but would like to create an auto traverse for my PAFs. I’ve read that they were wound at 50 turns per layer. I bought a 5RPM motor and using a cam based system which will provide 10 layers per minute, so if I wind a little slower at 500RPM, I should get pretty close to the wind pattern of the originals. I’m also testing some ways to measure tension as well. Hopefully get 2 complete sets done by the weekend. Quick vid of the traverse prototype, but no winding yet.

 
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Can the Mojo be programmed to do scatter winding?
 
Can the Mojo be programmed to do scatter winding?
No. It simply winds and counts and has a gaussmeter. The autotraverse is something I put together for $25 in parts.

For scatters wind, I will side the carriage to the left (it’s on bearing drawer rails) unhook the tensioner and do true hand scatter winding. Or I can simply remove the motor (clamped in place)) and hand guide the carriage for a more uniform tension.
 
I confess your project threads are the main reason I check in here (y)
 
Here is a tip. The old butyrate plastic shrinks over time, so the coil windings aren’t touching the inside/center of the bobbin. This makes a difference in sound. Wind them to around 9-9.5 for a nice hot PAF tone.

Id love a ripping set of hot paf type pickups with a bit of the top end rolled off. Not dark…just that sharp/bright high end cleaned off.
 
Like I mentioned I would never do it but i admire you for doing this and putting the time into learning the craft. That hunt for the perfect PAF is always there. Some off the shelf pups are very close but I don't think anything will ever be definitive with the way the wood imparts tone and the hardware does. But still, on we go.

Is there a sound you are going for? I like a hot PAF but i like the when soloing on the bridge pickup to be fatter and less brittle. Finding that balance between cut/detail and fullness while retaining the tight cutting low end is like finding a recipe for the right whisky. Aldrich is close for me but the harmonic squealies don't pop enough for me for some reason.

So are some of the boutique builders winding these by hand on a spool powered by a drill? educate me
 
Here is a tip. The old butyrate plastic shrinks over time, so the coil windings aren’t touching the inside/center of the bobbin. This makes a difference in sound. Wind them to around 9-9.5 for a nice hot PAF tone.

Id love a ripping set of hot paf type pickups with a bit of the top end rolled off. Not dark…just that sharp/bright high end cleaned off.

I missed your last line but essentially what I also like. Fuller for soloing but still tight and cutting.
 
Is there a sound you are going for? I like a hot PAF but i like the when soloing on the bridge pickup to be fatter and less brittle. Finding that balance between cut/detail and fullness while retaining the tight cutting low end is like finding a recipe for the right whisky. Aldrich is close for me but the harmonic squealies don't pop enough for me for some reason.

So are some of the boutique builders winding these by hand on a spool powered by a drill? educate me
I plan on trying to model 2 PAF types. 1 on the hotter side with degaussed UAO5 magnets and a lower wind Dry Z type/Custombucker with rough cast A3 mags.

I think some boutique winders use converted sewing machines and some like Wolftone use CNC winders. I know one winder that does it completely by hand (Zhangbucker). To me, PAFs in a Les Paul are already bright. Scatter winding will only add to the brightness. I am not a fan of standard A5 magnets
 
I plan on trying to model 2 PAF types. 1 on the hotter side with degaussed UAO5 magnets and a lower wind Dry Z type/Custombucker with rough cast A3 mags.

I think some boutique winders use converted sewing machines and some like Wolftone use CNC winders. I know one winder that does it completely by hand (Zhangbucker). To me, PAFs in a Les Paul are already bright. Scatter winding will only add to the brightness. I am not a fan of standard A5 magnets

I'm interested. Keep us posted!
 
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