PC Soundcards?

[Bob Savage]

For $150, I don't think I'd want much of anything on my desk hehe. Maybe I shouldn't say "hi fi," but I'd just see what I could find used for $150, without limiting myself to "monitors" in that range. It's not like there's a wild difference.

I believe there's a significant difference. What I will agree with is that neither are going to be a "flat" monitoring environment, but nearfields are specifically designed for close-range monitoring. This is true even of the Behringers, which I'm certain are closely based on some other brand of monitor.

Neither are ideal, but I'd rather adjust my ears to the nearfields than full-range stereo speakers. Different strokes, I guess.

 

[OneArmedScissor]

Fair enough, but I was thinking something more along the lines of computer speakers (though not actual cheapo computer speakers, just something smaller and meant for being used closer), which wouldn't be so different in that regard. I definitely don't mean to just get some big honking thing that'd be better suited to home theater and try to sit in front of it hehe.

 

[Digital Jams]

The vista EMU drivers per the website are still beta and they will not help you if your machine pukes a lung. Now, not disputing Ed or Ralph but I have not had any issues with any app other than in Vista. I will lose sound if I open say the soundclick player and have media player open...weird but it happens.

The new EMU with dock can do everything but I could not suggest it until they get their act together and release the final solid drivers.

 

[OneArmedScissor]

If I bought a new pre-manufactured computer for some weird reason, I'd just wipe it and put XP on. I don't particularly see the point of Vista existing. All your stuff may work on it, or it may not, but even if it does, it's still not going to run as well as XP, and for no real reason.

And if you're this serious about this stuff and know what PCI card is and how to put it in, well, then you may as well build your own, because it's not like it gets any harder than that.

 

[Bob Savage]

Fair enough, but I was thinking something more along the lines of computer speakers (though not actual cheapo computer speakers, just something smaller and meant for being used closer), which wouldn't be so different in that regard. I definitely don't mean to just get some big honking thing that'd be better suited to home theater and try to sit in front of it hehe.

You've moved me further from agreeing. I'd go with monster "hi-fi" speakers before a PC based setup. Most PC based speaker rigs are overly exaggerated on the bottom, weak in the mids and too fizzy on the top unless you want to spend more than $150.

 

[OneArmedScissor]

NOT PC speakers. I've hated every kind I've ever heard. I don't keep up with this stuff, but I know I've seen suitable smaller speakers that could make a substitute for computer speakers, and would be very similar to monitors.

For example, that company Wharfedale, who make those Diamond Pros that are pretty popular as affordable monitors, actually based those off of their Diamond series "hi fi" speakers, which are very similar, just not meant to be as flat, of course.

 

[Digital Jams]

Randy, you are just going to have to save and do it right imo. Say you buy a higher end SB card for around $150, that is $150 gone now towards a good solution. You must keep digging and wait for the right buy at the right time.

Regards,

Rigtalk king of dumpster diving.

 

[Bob Savage]

And if you're this serious about this stuff and know what PCI card is and how to put it in, well, then you may as well build your own, because it's not like it gets any harder than that.

Sorry man, but I'm again in disagreement.

I've built my own PC's for as long as I can remember but this time I decided to save time and money because in my opinion, the OEM's are getting it right now. I bought a new C2D based Dell system with 2 GB of RAM, bla bla bla... $670 delivered to my door. The thing is almost silent, the ventilation and overall interior design is spectacular, and it runs great. I don't foresee myself ever building another PC.

Now, I *did* load a clean copy of Vista Business because the OEM's do bog down every consumer PC with loads of uneccessary software, but other than that I couldn't be happier.

 

[OneArmedScissor]

They're certainly better about it today, and I agree that they do a good job of keeping them quiet. If you get one on sale, it can pretty much equal the cost of the parts (in which case I'd consider it and have done it in the past), but you can still save money, AND you get to pick every single last part.

The thing I really don't like is that no matter how many options they give you, you can't pick the motherboard, and it's quite likely you can get stuck with something where nothing is really adjustable. And pretty much regardless, you're not going to get something ideal for overclocking, which could potentially make your computer last a lot longer with very simple upgrades if it's capable of running beyond its normal rated specs compared to other models.

I guess it just depends, though. Personally, I have no issue with throwing a PC together. I don't feel that it takes me very long and I like having control over it. But then if it comes to, say, guitar amps, while I have no doubt I could build a simpler one, I'd just buy it. So to each their own.

 

[degenaro]

And if you're this serious about this stuff and know what PCI card is and how to put it in, well, then you may as well build your own, because it's not like it gets any harder than that.

Sorry man, but I'm again in disagreement.

I've built my own PC's for as long as I can remember but this time I decided to save time and money because in my opinion, the OEM's are getting it right now. I bought a new C2D based Dell system with 2 GB of RAM, bla bla bla... $670 delivered to my door. The thing is almost silent, the ventilation and overall interior design is spectacular, and it runs great. I don't foresee myself ever building another PC.

Now, I *did* load a clean copy of Vista Business because the OEM's do bog down every consumer PC with loads of uneccessary software, but other than that I couldn't be happier.

Same here Vista Ultimate only on the desktop...as a matter of fact I spent most of my time on my lap top which is dual boot Vista Ultimate/XP on the Vista side.

 

[Bob Savage]

They're certainly better about it today, and I agree that they do a good job of keeping them quiet. If you get one on sale, it can pretty much equal the cost of the parts (in which case I'd consider it and have done it in the past), but you can still save money, AND you get to pick every single last part.

The thing I really don't like is that no matter how many options they give you, you can't pick the motherboard, and it's quite likely you can get stuck with something where nothing is really adjustable. And pretty much regardless, you're not going to get something ideal for overclocking, which could potentially make your computer last a lot longer with very simple upgrades if it's capable of running beyond its normal rated specs compared to other models.

I guess it just depends, though. Personally, I have no issue with throwing a PC together. I don't feel that it takes me very long and I like having control over it. But then if it comes to, say, guitar amps, while I have no doubt I could build a simpler one, I'd just buy it. So to each their own.

The thing is that doing your research and picking "DAW friendly," "known stable" hardware is in direct conflict with saving money. As I mentioned, I've build my PC's for years now, every time having the DAW in mind and even years back it was more expensive for me to build on my own because I always researched the components first, and the ideal rig was not bottom feeder components.

At this point, for me of course, PC's are so freaking fast that I'm not worried about overclocking, hand picking chipsets, etc. I've mixed some large projects on my current DAW and by the way, while I've been dual booting to a clean OS installation with absolutely no apps except for my multitracker and plugins, networking and all other unnecessary services disabled, etc., I have not yet found the need for this with the new PC because of its processing power.

Again though, different strokes for different folks.

 

[tweed]

Bob, can you PM me your Dell specs? I am very tempted to purchase a machine from them for now and call it a day.

 

[Shiny_Surface]

I would not worry about PCI going away soon enough that you're going to end up with it being an issue, Randy.

They are definitely planning on ditching the PCI slots altogether on new MB's, I'm just not sure how long they will hold out and continue to offer them for legacy purposes.

 

[tweed]

Randy, you are just going to have to save and do it right imo. Say you buy a higher end SB card for around $150, that is $150 gone now towards a good solution. You must keep digging and wait for the right buy at the right time.

Regards,

Rigtalk king of dumpster diving.

That's 90% of the battle bro. What's a good solution? 1616pci with breakout board? MAudio 1010lt?

 

[Bob Savage]

Bob, can you PM me your Dell specs? I am very tempted to purchase a machine from them for now and call it a day.

I bought from this seller on ebay: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrp ... assZncgdk2

Take a close look through his auctions because when I bought his BIN's were all over the place for PC's of the same spec and model. Here's what I bought:

NEW DELL DIMENSION E520 CORE 2 DUO 2.13GHz E6400, Vista Premium (you'll want to do a clean OS installation without the Dell stuff), 2 GB RAM. I paid $609.99 with a total of $678.28 after shipping.

 

[Bob Savage]

I would not worry about PCI going away soon enough that you're going to end up with it being an issue, Randy.

They are definitely planning on ditching the PCI slots altogether on new MB's, I'm just not sure how long they will hold out and continue to offer them for legacy purposes.

Yes, but what's replacing it, PCIe? You can use PCI cards in PCIe slots. It's going to be a while before they can really phase out PCI.

 

[OneArmedScissor]

The thing is that doing your research and picking "DAW friendly," "known stable" hardware is in direct conflict with saving money. As I mentioned, I've build my PC's for years now, every time having the DAW in mind and even years back it was more expensive for me to build on my own because I always researched the components first, and the ideal rig was not bottom feeder components.

I just put one together for $200 worth of new parts, which was actually the cheapest stuff I could get my hands on, and I can run the processor at 3 gHz. The 3 gHz Core 2 Duo model costs almost $300 by itself, and is the top of the non-enthusiast line. Computers may be cheaper and faster today to the point where it's not exactly cost or performance prohibitive to just pick up one at Best Buy, but because of the ridiculous leaps in overclocking capability that keep occurring, you can build one that will match the top of the line (as far as non-enthusiast stuff goes) for literally a fraction of the price. Come January, it's going to take yet another leap, and then another in March. It's just getting cheaper and cheaper and faster and faster to do it this way, while the prices and performance of pre-manufactured computers aren't really going to change.

And even with that, I am always finding ways to push it too hard and wondering when computers are going to get better. So I guess that's where we differ.

I don't really get the part about "known stable hardware." You don't even know what you're getting with pre-manufactured computers a lot, which was my whole point.

 

[Bob Savage]

I just put one together for $200 worth of new parts, which was actually the cheapest stuff I could get my hands on, and I can run the processor at 3 gHz. The 3 gHz Core 2 Duo model costs almost $300 by itself, and is the top of the non-enthusiast line. Computers may be cheaper and faster today to the point where it's not exactly cost or performance prohibitive to just pick up one at Best Buy, but because of the ridiculous leaps in overclocking capability that keep occurring, you can build one that will match the top of the line (as far as non-enthusiast stuff goes) for literally a fraction of the price.

And even with that, I am always finding ways to push it too hard and wondering when computers are going to get better. So I guess that's where we differ.

I don't really get the part about "known stable hardware." You don't even know what you're getting with pre-manufactured computers a lot, which was my whole point.

I'd like to see your parts list, pricing and vendor for putting a complete DAW together for $200.

 

[OneArmedScissor]

I reused a case and hard drive, but the motherboard, RAM, and processor necessary to have a Core 2 Duo system running at 3 gHz were only $200, so the entire computer wouldn't have to be much more than that. It's just stuff from Newegg. This is nothing out of the ordinary. Anyone could do it. My friend did the same just recently and used this type of setup to make an extremely high end complete PC for games, and with a monitor, I don't think it was even $1,000.

 

[Bob Savage]

I reused a case and hard drive, but the motherboard, RAM, and processor necessary to have a Core 2 Duo system running at 3 gHz were only $200, so the entire computer wouldn't have to be much more than that. It's just stuff from Newegg. This is nothing out of the ordinary.

Ah yes, I thought you might have reused some parts. That's quite a bit different, nonetheless, I'm still interested in seeing what you bought and pricing, along with what you reused.