Perspective on Mods, Costs, Jose, and Cameron (long post)

  • Thread starter Thread starter scottosan
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LP Freak said:
Maybe because he’s a good business man also and actually deliveres
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people want the real thing, not copies and as long as you can make the product available there will always be someone there to buy it.
 
Krull said:
I think it's safe to say that the modders and amp builders not making money are doing it wrong.
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They’re certainly making money, but not getting rich by any means. The ones that are can be counted on your fingers.
 
FourT6and2 said:
I visited his place a few times and brought an amp or two I built and he was nice enough to have a look and give me some pro tips. He certainly knows what he's doing, but it's all a bit... disorganized. I played all the amps he had on hand at the time and I honestly wasn't blown away. Except for one. Some sort of Frankenstein project amp he'd been tinkering with for years. That amp wow'd me. Much better than any of the other Jose mods or CCV or Cali or whatever. I offered to buy it on the spot but he said no haha.

As far as what it costs to build an amp... well a typical Jose-style JCM800 ground-up build is like $1,000 - $1,800 in parts alone if you're not buying in bulk/wholesale. Then what... 20-40 hours of labor. What's your time worth? That's the question. And it's not just the time to build, but the time you spent over the years learning how to do it. What does a typical amp tech charge for a bench fee? $65/hr? That's $1,300 - $2,600 for labor. So you're looking at $4,400 for a one-off build from the ground up if you actually want a profit.

Nobody is getting rich building guitar amps.
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FourT6and2 knows how to build a killer amp!! I have been to his place and played a couple and they were AMAZING!!! I would say as good as any builder out there, no kidding. He is the real deal.
 
People I know who know better than I have said the Friedman amps just plain sound better after the collaboration. I’m not knocking Dave, Mark, or anyone else, just reporting what I’ve noticed people on here writing. I’m not familiar enough with Friedman amps pre and post the collaboration to say one way or the other, but guys I trust here that do know the difference have said so, and that’s good enough for me.
 
Krull said:
How is it that Wizard amps is able to pump out hand built amps like a champ, while others can't?

Comes down to simple work ethics and pricing the amps accordingly.

Can't do the job you are paid to do? That includes modding or building. Well then it's time to hang up your boots.
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All he needs is:p some orange drops
 
Krull said:
How is it that Wizard amps is able to pump out hand built amps like a champ, while others can't?

Comes down to simple work ethics and pricing the amps accordingly.

Can't do the job you are paid to do? That includes modding or building. Well then it's time to hang up your boots.
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And what is his net worth? Pleas do share.
 
Krull said:
Enough to be in business since 1988. 🤡
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Doesn’t mean he’s rich. A lot of builders/modders have day jobs and would take a pay cut of they built for a living.
 
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I have to believe there’s no voodoo here. I get if you‘re modding an existing amp, there are too many variables to account for a “perfect” outcome every time. But, how much does it miss the mark ? 5% 10% ? IDK, you guys that do know, tell us. Also, I HAVE to believe that if someone that knows the CCV (for example) inside and out COULD generate a bill of materials, build an amp, time themselves and extrapolate a price per unit. This isn’t rocket science, it’s tube amps. If you know the voltages required you should be able to order the right PT, the choke is easy enough, the OT could be figured out by someone knowledgeable, we know it’s 2 channels and the layout... we know what brands and types of resistors and caps are used and in what positions they’re in from the Brad era amps out in the wild. We know the voltages and filtering at each point in the circuit. This should be do-able.
 
paulyc said:
I have to believe there’s no voodoo here. I get if you‘re modding an existing amp, there are too many variables to account for a “perfect” outcome every time. But, how much does it miss the mark ? 5% 10% ? IDK, you guys that do know, tell us. Also, I HAVE to believe that if someone that knows the CCV (for example) inside and out COULD generate a bill of materials, build an amp, time themselves and extrapolate a price per unit. This isn’t rocket science, it’s tube amps. If you know the voltages required you should be able to order the right PT, the choke is easy enough, the OT could be figured out by someone knowledgeable, we know it’s 2 channels and the layout... we know what brands and types of resistors and caps are used and in what positions they’re in from the Brad era amps out in the wild. We know the voltages and filtering at each point in the circuit. This should be do-able.
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It can be consistent and yes I think the Brad era amps were consistent. But who is in a position to do this at mass scale? BAD I’m sure wants none of the baggage. As for pricing, if a BE is over 3K and the CCV is more complicated and has a higher part count, what is the cost? Aside from that, Ceriatone has missed the mark (no pun intended). Maybe Rockin Chippy can bank roll some mass production.
 
Krull said:
There is no Voodoo. It's literally a bunch of known RC circuits cutting and boosting guitar frequencies. Knowing what frequencies you want to emphasize and using standard formulas gets you what component values to achieve it. Once you have an overall "voicing" the rest should be made user adjustable to taste.

These guys make it sound like Cameron is painting a Mona Lisa for every amp he touches...
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Not Mona Lisa but it’s not as easy as you indicated to custom voice different donor amps. But yeah please enlighten us how it’s done.
 
Donor amps are all over the place on part tolerances, voltages, who knows what parts replaced over the years, etc etc. so I get the trouble replicating a precise desired outcome when you have no control over what you start with. It’s not enough to say I started with a Marshall. It’s not even enough to specify what Marshall. But to do it from scratch ? It can be done. I’m convinced there are at least a half to a dozen guys right on this board that could do it.
 
scottosan said:
It can be consistent and yes I think the Brad era amps were consistent. But who is in a position to do this at mass scale? BAD I’m sure wants none of the baggage. As for pricing, if a BE is over 3K and the CCV is more complicated and has a higher part count, what is the cost? Aside from that, Ceriatone has missed the mark (no pun intended). Maybe Rockin Chippy can bank roll some mass production.
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Doesn’t have to be on a mass scale. People want the amps. Someone could build 6 to 12 a year and charge probably whatever they want (within reason) and sell them no problem.
 
scottosan said:
Doesn’t mean he’s rich. A lot of builders/modders have day jobs and would take a pay cut of they built for a living.
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I'm quite sure that Rick has made a hell of a nice living from his main job for 30+ years...AC/DC's tour tech. Which allows him to design and build his amps without worry regarding his day job; he can focus only on his amps since he's retired from the tour stuff.
 
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paulyc said:
Doesn’t have to be on a mass scale. People want the amps. Someone could build 6 to 12 a year and charge probably whatever they want (within reason) and sell them no problem.
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At 12 per year @$4k is only 48k and 40% of that would be in parts. You’d qualify for food stamps and have no benefits or retirement. Not worth it. Steve Henning would be one to ask input from. He could probably weigh in since it’s not his main gig. Add in emails, tire kickers, people bitching on forums about turnaround times. It’s no longer fun.
 
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