Please school me on Gibson T-Tops and T-Top clones

[VonBonfire]

I like Seth Lovers but only with 250k pots. I think they're too bright with 500k. Never played Brandons.

If you want to hear a good example of T-Tops in "modern" music, check out Candlebox. The guitarist is a huge fan of T-Tops and uses them almost exclusively in his LPs. He was also one of the first guys to use a Recto back in '92-'93. The T-Tops work really well with that amp since it's so dark.

Damn, info packed post for me! Thank you brother! I always felt my Seth's were too bright in that ES. Not shrill, but just too bright. I had 500k pots and dime the treble on a Twin. With 57's it is about ideal but the Seth's were too bright, even dialing back the treble and adding a small amount of mids and bass on the EQ. I eventually pulled both of them out and put 57's in there and sure enough it was much better.

So anyways....my thinking at the time was the problem was the what I assume are scatter wound, uneven coils made to be PAF-like in the Seths, and the lack of potting. Maybe it was just the pots all along?!?! I have the bridge Seth in a dark LP copy neck position right now and it's still kinda bright so I roll back the tone and it's better, but it's a dark guitar with 500k pots.

I have been considering some darker mid-wattage amps lately so maybe I should hang on to the Seths for a while. Thanks again, that was very insightful for me.

 

[braintheory]

My first Gibson was a ‘78 Custom with the original pickups. It sounded like shit, so if that was T-Tops, I don’t like them. Guitar was a 10 pound ice pick.

The LPC’s and other Gibson’s I had from that time sounded kinda like that no matter what pickups I tried in them (sounded like furniture with strings attached to me). I had this one 1981 LPC tobacco burst that weighed ~11 lbs iirc and had the same problem as you

 

[hellzington]

Damn, info packed post for me! Thank you brother! I always felt my Seth's were too bright in that ES. Not shrill, but just too bright. I had 500k pots and dime the treble on a Twin. With 57's it is about ideal but the Seth's were too bright, even dialing back the treble and adding a small amount of mids and bass on the EQ. I eventually pulled both of them out and put 57's in there and sure enough it was much better.

So anyways....my thinking at the time was the problem was the what I assume are scatter wound, uneven coils made to be PAF-like in the Seths, and the lack of potting. Maybe it was just the pots all along?!?! I have the bridge Seth in a dark LP copy neck position right now and it's still kinda bright so I roll back the tone and it's better, but it's a dark guitar with 500k pots.

I have been considering some darker mid-wattage amps lately so maybe I should hang on to the Seths for a while. Thanks again, that was very insightful for me.

I went down a whole rabbit hole of pots. Basic insights:

• There are two main types of pots: linear and "audio taper" (logrhythmic)
  
  
• Linear pots are exactly that: they add 10% volume/gain for each notch on the pot (supposedly; ideally)
  • Pros: Smoother taper, easier to make small adjustments, works well with 50s wiring
  • Cons: Takes a lot to make large adjustments (i.e., "slower") tends to get really dark when you roll it down
    
• Audio taper pots are supposed to be a more even taper to the human ear (they are supposed to sound like an even 1-10 to you)
  • Pros: Easier to make large, quick adjustments, gain rolls off very quickly (i.e., "faster"), good for single-channel amps like a Trainwreck, works well with treble bleeds
  • Cons: Can be "touchy" if you're not used to them, harder to get mid-gain sounds on strong tapered pots
    
• Fenders typically use audio-taper pots. Some can be VERY aggressive, like what EVH used. You can order strong tapers (e.g., 10%) and all the way to less strong (e.g., 30%)
• Gibsons typically use liner pots. You have to turn them a LOT further to notice the loss of gain. Treble bleeds and capacitors will radically change the sound of your pickups and the feel of the pot.

You'll see that good manufactures of pickups offer audio taper pots in many tapers. You can see that reflected on the BK site here, where you can order your pots with a variety of audio tapers: https://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/shop/product/bare-knuckle-cts-550k-potentiometer-long-shaft-1

I discovered that I greatly prefer audio taper pots, usually with a very strong taper (like EVH). I had them put in my PRS Standards and man, it made that guitar come alive. I have put them in Gibsons and do like them; but, I can also make a linear pot work as long as I put the Emerson treble bleed capacitor set on it. Especially the neck pickup. Makes a LP much more versatile.

Anyway, sorry for the textbook but pots are something that is TOTALLY overlooked by most guitarists. It's like speakers: no one really thinks about it but it has a HUGE impact on your tone and the feel of the guitar.

 

[braintheory]

T-Tops came out in 1965. I sold recently my black 1970 (‘69 spec) LPC that had them. They had some good things about them as almost all vintage pickups from that time will inherently have, but preferred other pickups I tried in that guitar. I found their tone a little wiry, thin and not as tonally complex or nuanced as other ‘60’s pickups. My preferred ‘60’s humbuckers by Gretsch or Guild (my 2 personal favorites) imo smoke them in most departments including clarity and upper end aggression and are also not as expensive, but I will admit noisier. My guess is they don’t sound as good tonally as the previous Gibson pickups from the change in materials like the polysol wire and other spec differences

I actually think many of the ‘70’s Gibson pickups like the Shaw PAF’s or Bill Lawrence designed Tarbacks sound really good. It’s just the Gibson guitars of that time generally didn’t inherently sound as good (often that coarser furniture with strings attached sound), so I think that clouds the opinions of the actual pickups, but I’ve tried them in some of my other vintage guitars and modern guitars compared with other pickups and a lot of them are very good IME

 

[VonBonfire]

I went down a whole rabbit hole of pots. Basic insights:

• There are two main types of pots: linear and "audio taper" (logrhythmic)
  
  
• Linear pots are exactly that: they add 10% volume/gain for each notch on the pot (supposedly; ideally)
  • Pros: Smoother taper, easier to make small adjustments, works well with 50s wiring
  • Cons: Takes a lot to make large adjustments (i.e., "slower") tends to get really dark when you roll it down
• Audio taper pots are supposed to be a more even taper to the human ear (they are supposed to sound like an even 1-10 to you)
  • Pros: Easier to make large, quick adjustments, gain rolls off very quickly (i.e., "faster"), good for single-channel amps like a Trainwreck, works well with treble bleeds
  • Cons: Can be "touchy" if you're not used to them, harder to get mid-gain sounds on strong tapered pots
• Fenders typically use audio-taper pots. Some can be VERY aggressive, like what EVH used. You can order strong tapers (e.g., 10%) and all the way to less strong (e.g., 30%)
• Gibsons typically use liner pots. You have to turn them a LOT further to notice the loss of gain. Treble bleeds and capacitors will radically change the sound of your pickups and the feel of the pot.

You'll see that good manufactures of pickups offer audio taper pots in many tapers. You can see that reflected on the BK site here, where you can order your pots with a variety of audio tapers: https://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/shop/product/bare-knuckle-cts-550k-potentiometer-long-shaft-1

I discovered that I greatly prefer audio taper pots, usually with a very strong taper (like EVH). I had them put in my PRS Standards and man, it made that guitar come alive. I have put them in Gibsons and do like them; but, I can also make a linear pot work as long as I put the Emerson treble bleed capacitor set on it. Especially the neck pickup. Makes a LP much more versatile.

Anyway, sorry for the textbook but pots are something that is TOTALLY overlooked by most guitarists. It's like speakers: no one really thinks about it but it has a HUGE impact on your tone and the feel of the guitar.

I was made aware of the linear vs audio taper differences about ten years ago when I started playing Gibson type guitars. I been running audio tapers since then with 50's wiring. I am mostly a guitar-single OD-amp player so all my experiments and the like are based around stuff on those three things, mostly just guitar/amp rather than lots of pedals and processing. 100 percent agreement with you. Lots of small stuff is overlooked. Tubes, picks, pickups, speakers. I like buying and trying speakers more than pedals these days because a great speaker makes your amp that much more alive sounding. Not really an easily explainable concept I guess, maybe that's why it's overlooked, but the notes just jump from an amp with great speakers. Once you've heard it, you can't un hear it.

 

[DanTravis62]

My first Gibson was a ‘78 Custom with the original pickups. It sounded like shit, so if that was T-Tops, I don’t like them. Guitar was a 10 pound ice pick.

One man's trash. My t-top guitar was a '77 custom that I alluded to being stolen in the post above. I loved them, but I wax potted mine.,

 

[skoora]

The LPC’s and other Gibson’s I had from that time sounded kinda like that no matter what pickups I tried in them (sounded like furniture with strings attached to me). I had this one 1981 LPC tobacco burst that weighed ~11 lbs iirc and had the same problem as you

I was never a fan of any Les Paul with a Maple neck.

 

[braintheory]

I was never a fan of any Les Paul with a Maple neck.

I don’t think I have been either, but I’d also guess there’s probably more to why those guitars generally don’t sound as good besides just the maple neck. I’d wonder also if maybe the quality of mahogany wasn’t as good (just a thought). More often than not it seems heavier sets of a given wood aren’t as tonally complex (but will sound punchier, denser), but the 1970 LPC I had was an exception to that norm IME

 

[psychodave]

I have some loose T top coils laying around. I guess I should make a pickup to test out. lol

 

[JohnnyGtar]

I went down a whole rabbit hole of pots. Basic insights:

• There are two main types of pots: linear and "audio taper" (logrhythmic)
  
  
• Linear pots are exactly that: they add 10% volume/gain for each notch on the pot (supposedly; ideally)
  • Pros: Smoother taper, easier to make small adjustments, works well with 50s wiring
  • Cons: Takes a lot to make large adjustments (i.e., "slower") tends to get really dark when you roll it down
• Audio taper pots are supposed to be a more even taper to the human ear (they are supposed to sound like an even 1-10 to you)
  • Pros: Easier to make large, quick adjustments, gain rolls off very quickly (i.e., "faster"), good for single-channel amps like a Trainwreck, works well with treble bleeds
  • Cons: Can be "touchy" if you're not used to them, harder to get mid-gain sounds on strong tapered pots
• Fenders typically use audio-taper pots. Some can be VERY aggressive, like what EVH used. You can order strong tapers (e.g., 10%) and all the way to less strong (e.g., 30%)
• Gibsons typically use liner pots. You have to turn them a LOT further to notice the loss of gain. Treble bleeds and capacitors will radically change the sound of your pickups and the feel of the pot.

You'll see that good manufactures of pickups offer audio taper pots in many tapers. You can see that reflected on the BK site here, where you can order your pots with a variety of audio tapers: https://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/shop/product/bare-knuckle-cts-550k-potentiometer-long-shaft-1

I discovered that I greatly prefer audio taper pots, usually with a very strong taper (like EVH). I had them put in my PRS Standards and man, it made that guitar come alive. I have put them in Gibsons and do like them; but, I can also make a linear pot work as long as I put the Emerson treble bleed capacitor set on it. Especially the neck pickup. Makes a LP much more versatile.

Anyway, sorry for the textbook but pots are something that is TOTALLY overlooked by most guitarists. It's like speakers: no one really thinks about it but it has a HUGE impact on your tone and the feel of the guitar.

Thank you for that post!