power conditioner or voltage regulator?

[VH4paul]

Guys,
looking around on the net about this issue I'm getting a bit confused: do voltage regulators act also as power conditioners protecting your rig from spikes and surges too or not?

Some people say you need both a voltage regulator AND a power conditioner, so that means I would need - just an example here - both the Furman AR and the PL8 or similar. D'you know something more about this?

Besides, talking about the Furman power conditioners, is this PL8 Series II any good compared to the new models?

Thanks a lot guys!

If I had the money or were a pro, I'd go with a regulator.

The conditioner normally just is some caps and an inductance to eat some RFI and such away - and AFAIK Diezel has already a (simple version) of a "conditioner" built in.

On the other hand: Ever played with just 190V (instead of 230)? Well I had to, several times in our former rehearsal place. It just sucks . . . feeding the amp with - say 20% - less than it should be (mains voltage) makes it sound like ass (muddy). To get rid of that, a regulator (built in transformer) bumps up the voltage to what the amp wants to "see".

Hi Olaf,
what d'you think about this point of view about power conditioners?

I found the vid on YouTube and instantly thought about your post here. Could it be "worst" in terms of sound to place a power conditioner into the chain, especially if Diezels can take care of some of those surges and spikes on their own?
As I said, one thing I still cannot understand is if the voltage regulators can also protect from spikes and surges (just like a power conditioner) or I'd need both anyway.





Thanks!

 

[nevusofota]

The Furman AR series is also a conditioner

 

[steve_k]

The Furman conditions (whatever that means), but it refers to stabilization and isolation. It may do an OK job, but who knows. There's no meter to reflect it.

The regulating part of the equation....the AR series does regulate. But, it regulates at input voltage. I don't want to be regulated at 128 volts, I want to be regulated at 110 volts, which is what transformer taps are used in my amps. When I leave the house and gig, my transformer goes with me and I still get regulated power supply at 110V, not whatever voltage the house puts out.

You guys are being sucked into the sales gimmicks and naming conventions of these products. Furman and Monster products are basically a power strip mounted for a rack.

Steve

 

[nevusofota]

The Furman conditions (whatever that means), but it refers to stabilization and isolation. It may do an OK job, but who knows. There's no meter to reflect it.

The regulating part of the equation....the AR series does regulate. But, it regulates at input voltage. I don't want to be regulated at 128 volts, I want to be regulated at 110 volts, which is what transformer taps are used in my amps. When I leave the house and gig, my transformer goes with me and I still get regulated power supply at 110V, not whatever voltage the house puts out.

You guys are being sucked into the sales gimmicks and naming conventions of these products. Furman and Monster products are basically a power strip mounted for a rack.

Steve

I have the AR-15. According to what your saying it regulates the input voltage. I agree with this because the little meter on the faceplate tells me what the incoming voltage is. This is better than a basic "power strip" in two ways (at least 1.) it keeps the voltage from spiking too high or too low (I see this as a big advantage) and 2.) the meter is telling me what the incoming voltage is, so at least I know what I am getting and can make the choice if I want to put my epuipment at risk.

Also, Furman states that the AR-1215 and 15 takes an incoming voltage of anywhere between 97v to 141v and creates an output voltage of a constant 120v. Is this not regulation? Are they lying?

 

[Ventura]

FWIW, I ordered this for my rack rig - Mako Mak4, Fryette 2/90/2 and 2U left for an AxeFX Ultra if that's in the cards for down the road...

http://www.artproaudio.com/products.asp ... at=7&id=49

V.

 

[Anonymous]

I have been reading lately about voltage regulators and power conditioners used in tandem.
This is what is on my immediate list to buy for my Diezels.
http://www.furmansound.com/product.php? ... =P-1800PFR
This first product will be plugged into the wall outlet.

2. ART PR8 Pro Power Regulator

The PR8 PRO regulates incoming AC line voltages to deliver clean and stable power to your system for optimum operation and longer life. Output voltage at any of the 8 rear AC outlets is maintained within 5 Volts of 117 Volts even as the incoming AC line varies from 97 to 137 Volts. Extreme voltage shutdown protection, Advanced Power Filtering, and fast acting breaker, protect your system while the front panel LCD display gives you a constant read of the input and output line voltages. The PR8 PRO is designed to protect a wide range of equipment from sensitive vintage tube amplifiers to large displays or digital systems. Your equipment will sound and work better and live longer.


This second rack piece will be plugged into the power conditioner, and my amps plugged into the regulator.
There are many types of both products that will do this, but I have not seen any combination that will do it better for my needs.

If any of you have, I would appreciate seeing what you have found.

Thank you.
Stephen

 

[steve_k]

The Furman conditions (whatever that means), but it refers to stabilization and isolation. It may do an OK job, but who knows. There's no meter to reflect it.

The regulating part of the equation....the AR series does regulate. But, it regulates at input voltage. I don't want to be regulated at 128 volts, I want to be regulated at 110 volts, which is what transformer taps are used in my amps. When I leave the house and gig, my transformer goes with me and I still get regulated power supply at 110V, not whatever voltage the house puts out.

You guys are being sucked into the sales gimmicks and naming conventions of these products. Furman and Monster products are basically a power strip mounted for a rack.

Steve

I have the AR-15. According to what your saying it regulates the input voltage. I agree with this because the little meter on the faceplate tells me what the incoming voltage is. This is better than a basic "power strip" in two ways (at least 1.) it keeps the voltage from spiking too high or too low (I see this as a big advantage) and 2.) the meter is telling me what the incoming voltage is, so at least I know what I am getting and can make the choice if I want to put my epuipment at risk.

Also, Furman states that the AR-1215 and 15 takes an incoming voltage of anywhere between 97v to 141v and creates an output voltage of a constant 120v. Is this not regulation? Are they lying?

If it does that, then it should be exactly what you need. You should do all your amp biasing with voltage from that rack too. I have an older AR that swings all over the place when plugged into the wall and pegs at 129V, not 141. I have never had it shut down either. Best thing to do - if you have a DMM, just check the voltage at one of the plugs compared to what the input voltage meter shows and monitor it for a while. Some power grids are certainly better than other and some counties are better in general. But, I don't take any chances with my gear. So, I am double protected...

Steve

 

[VH4paul]

FWIW, I ordered this for my rack rig - Mako Mak4, Fryette 2/90/2 and 2U left for an AxeFX Ultra if that's in the cards for down the road...

http://www.artproaudio.com/products.asp ... at=7&id=49

V.

This seems a pretty good product to me...I love the fact you can monitor the input voltage but on the other hand I cannot see all the detailed info's you can find about the Furman products (ex. operating voltage, spike clamping voltage, noise attenuation etc.). Guess it's good enough anyway, right?

Right now I could buy this brand new ART power conditioner (or this one with the double meter) or a used Furman PL8 Series II for the same amount of money...what would you choose?

 

[VH4paul]

This second rack piece will be plugged into the power conditioner, and my amps plugged into the regulator.
There are many types of both products that will do this, but I have not seen any combination that will do it better for my needs.

If any of you have, I would appreciate seeing what you have found.

Thank you.
Stephen

Thanks for sharing Stephen
One doubt: are you sure about this order? I read that the voltage regulator (the ART PR8 in your case) must be plugged into the wall outled and then the power conditioner into the voltage regulator (so, wall outlet >>> voltage regulator >>> power conditioner).

What's the right chain?

 

[nevusofota]

this page has a video to watch, it gives some specs in the video. Click on Multimedia below the pic in the link.
http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?id=AR-1215

 

[steve_k]

I looked at the specs on the 1215, and it looks like a pretty good product and should do what you need it to do. I may grab one of these. Time to update anyway. If it will take that range of input and give a constant 120V, then that is right where you want to be. I see they give themselves a +/- 5V tolerance though.

If you go the route I do, you plug a voltage transformer/stabilizer and plug into the wall. This gives you stabilized voltage/hertz. Then plug your Furman rack mount into it to act as your load device and it puts a lot less work on it and you get a constant supply voltage.

Steve

 

[Laura]

Steve, can you post links to some voltage transformer/stabilizer's like you are referring to in that last post? Thanks!

 

[nevusofota]

I looked at the specs on the 1215, and it looks like a pretty good product and should do what you need it to do. I may grab one of these. Time to update anyway. If it will take that range of input and give a constant 120V, then that is right where you want to be. I see they give themselves a +/- 5V tolerance though.

If you go the route I do, you plug a voltage transformer/stabilizer and plug into the wall. This gives you stabilized voltage/hertz. Then plug your Furman rack mount into it to act as your load device and it puts a lot less work on it and you get a constant supply voltage.

Steve

If you already have the AR-15 you don't need to pick up the AR-1215, just about the same specs
http://www.furmansound.com/pdf/datashee ... asheet.pdf

 

[Ventura]

FWIW, I ordered this for my rack rig - Mako Mak4, Fryette 2/90/2 and 2U left for an AxeFX Ultra if that's in the cards for down the road...

http://www.artproaudio.com/products.asp ... at=7&id=49

V.

This seems a pretty good product to me...I love the fact you can monitor the input voltage but on the other hand I cannot see all the detailed info's you can find about the Furman products (ex. operating voltage, spike clamping voltage, noise attenuation etc.). Guess it's good enough

It has a mess of noise filters, spike clamps and all that shit... But honestly, it's the LACK of voltage that kills your rig - especially the digital stuff. Spikes are typically handled rather nicely by the input section of most power supplies believe it or not. But 'brown outs' (no, that's not happy hour at a gay bar) are the menace...those, ground hums, and RFI. This little unit I picked up tackles all that nonsense and does so at a good price. If the source drops, it can be accounted for and set with the pulls. I'm fine with it (and hey, that oldschool VM reader looks kinda funkae in my book )

Peace,
V.

 

[steve_k]

I use this as a voltage regulator from the wall. They regulate by storing the releasing the voltage. This also automatically stabilizes the frequency and smooths it out.

With a constant 110V, my Furman AR15 plugs into it. So, the Furman is already seeing a constant voltage and only does whatever conditioning means and filters the power. Maybe overkill, but I can put a DMM in the output on the front of the AR15 and it steady on the output. My AR15 won't do that on its own. It says it will deliver 120V +/- 5, but it will peg out at 129V.

Make your own decisions on how to handle spikes and dips and odd frequencies. This is what keeps me trouble free.

Seve

 

[Anonymous]

Hey Steve... I can see why you would use that in Saudi Arabia where you have to have a step down transformer, but... in the States where the outlet puts out 120, would a Furman AR15 do a sufficient enough job on its own? Or... would you just suggest busting out a DMM to double check anyways. I dont think alot of the guys who use 120 in Canada or the US would need one of those. In my case though, being stationed in Germany.... it would be handy for me to get a nicer stepdown like that for when I get back to Germany. Am I missing something... or would even someone using 120 benifit from using this? Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Anonymous]

This second rack piece will be plugged into the power conditioner, and my amps plugged into the regulator.
There are many types of both products that will do this, but I have not seen any combination that will do it better for my needs.

If any of you have, I would appreciate seeing what you have found.

Thank you.
Stephen

Thanks for sharing Stephen
One doubt: are you sure about this order? I read that the voltage regulator (the ART PR8 in your case) must be plugged into the wall outled and then the power conditioner into the voltage regulator (so, wall outlet >>> voltage regulator >>> power conditioner).

What's the right chain?

This is a good question! On the sites I have been reading, they place the conditioner into the wall outlet, but actually, placing the voltage regulator first into the wall outlet does make more sense to me, after reading this thread. Thanks!

 

[VH4paul]

This second rack piece will be plugged into the power conditioner, and my amps plugged into the regulator.
There are many types of both products that will do this, but I have not seen any combination that will do it better for my needs.

If any of you have, I would appreciate seeing what you have found.

Thank you.
Stephen

Thanks for sharing Stephen
One doubt: are you sure about this order? I read that the voltage regulator (the ART PR8 in your case) must be plugged into the wall outled and then the power conditioner into the voltage regulator (so, wall outlet >>> voltage regulator >>> power conditioner).

What's the right chain?

This is a good question! On the sites I have been reading, they place the conditioner into the wall outlet, but actually, placing the voltage regulator first into the wall outlet does make more sense to me, after reading this thread. Thanks!

...I agree but I'm not a tech so I could be completely wrong...pretty tricky issue